Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #14

[RHR]

Yes, I believe you have suspected the presence of a note all along. And that would certainly explain why police were thinking the way that they were on day#1 and seemed to pursue such an angle for awhile. I thought that idea had been ruled out, however I don't remember where exactly that info came from. Unless TPS said it, then nobody else should really be aware of it. TPS was not sharing their investigative results with media, nor with
the private detectives. Not sure if they would share that intimate detail with immediate family under the circumstances of a 'suspicious' death. I have to admit that I would be devastated if I were the immediate family and police never mentioned the finding of a note for several years.

They did not find any notes. The police wanted access to Barry's phone etc to look for searches for M/S and or any notes. None were found.

Yes, I believe you have suspected the presence of a note all along. And that would certainly explain why police were thinking the way that they were on day#1 and seemed to pursue such an angle for awhile. I thought that idea had been ruled out, however I don't remember where exactly that info came from. Unless TPS said it, then nobody else should really be aware of it. TPS was not sharing their investigative results with media, nor with
the private detectives. Not sure if they would share that intimate detail with immediate family under the circumstances of a 'suspicious' death. I have to admit that I would be devastated if I were the immediate family and police never mentioned the finding of a note for several years.

 

[RHR]

Yes, I believe you have suspected the presence of a note all along. And that would certainly explain why police were thinking the way that they were on day#1 and seemed to pursue such an angle for awhile. I thought that idea had been ruled out, however I don't remember where exactly that info came from. Unless TPS said it, then nobody else should really be aware of it. TPS was not sharing their investigative results with media, nor with
the private detectives. Not sure if they would share that intimate detail with immediate family under the circumstances of a 'suspicious' death. I have to admit that I would be devastated if I were the immediate family and police never mentioned the finding of a note for several years.

Yes, I believe you have suspected the presence of a note all along. And that would certainly explain why police were thinking the way that they were on day#1 and seemed to pursue such an angle for awhile. I thought that idea had been ruled out, however I don't remember where exactly that info came from. Unless TPS said it, then nobody else should really be aware of it. TPS was not sharing their investigative results with media, nor with
the private detectives. Not sure if they would share that intimate detail with immediate family under the circumstances of a 'suspicious' death. I have to admit that I would be devastated if I were the immediate family and police never mentioned the finding of a note for several years.

 

[RHR]

There were no noted ever found. The police wanted access to phones etc to search for notes or any searches by Barry re M/S.
There was nothing.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, I believe you have suspected the presence of a note all along. And that would certainly explain why police were thinking the way that they were on day#1 and seemed to pursue such an angle for awhile. I thought that idea had been ruled out, however I don't remember where exactly that info came from. Unless TPS said it, then nobody else should really be aware of it. TPS was not sharing their investigative results with media, nor with
the private detectives. Not sure if they would share that intimate detail with immediate family under the circumstances of a 'suspicious' death. I have to admit that I would be devastated if I were the immediate family and police never mentioned the finding of a note for several years.

I don’t believe for a moment that Barry wrote a suicide note. IF fabricated evidence was found by TPS and whether or not anything was shared with the family, how would we know? Neither are talking.

The entire intent behind a staged crime scene is to deceive investigators.......and just because a document might’ve been found at the crime scene does not prove it’s legitimate.

JMO

ETA - All police depts initially refer to deaths as “suspicious” (if the deceased did not appear to die by natural causes ) until such time as the Coroner or Medical Examiner and investigators complete the autopsy and death investigation to reveal the cause and manner of death. It’s a standard term used throughout Canada, I believe the USA and other countries as well.

 

[MistyWaters]

There were no noted ever found. The police wanted access to phones etc to search for notes or any searches by Barry re M/S.
There was nothing.

TPS have never disclosed any evidence. If you have a link to the contrary, please share it.

 

[dotr]

There were no noted ever found. The police wanted access to phones etc to search for notes or any searches by Barry re M/S.
There was nothing.

Welcome to Ws RHR!

 

[Skibunny]

There is also the issue that if it was a m/s, would Barry be worried that his adult children, housekeeper etc would immediately become suspects if he did not write a suicide note?

 

[MistyWaters]

There is also the issue that if it was a m/s, would Barry be worried that his adult children, housekeeper etc would immediately become suspects if he did not write a suicide note?

That’s a possibility. Given almost everyone stated Barry and Honey’s relationship was good and he had absolutely zero reason to take his life let alone murder his wife, yes that could be another reason a killer possibility left a fabricated suicide note purportedly written by Barry.

The killer might’ve thought, in staging a credible m/s, such a document would be an absolute requirement to prevent any further investigation.

Had it been true that Barry murdered his wife and later decided to take his own life, he’d certainly would’ve had time to write something pertaining to an explanation so others weren’t wrongfully accused, and perhaps apologize, say goodbyes to certain people, even amend financial directives etc. I’d imagine the killer would’ve thrilled at the opportunity to write such a final, goodbye document on behalf of Barry if elements of bitter hatred and revenge were involved in the motive.

My speculation only....

 

[deugirtni]

I don’t believe for a moment that Barry wrote a suicide note. IF fabricated evidence was found by TPS and whether or not anything was shared with the family, how would we know? Neither are talking.

The entire intent behind a staged crime scene is to deceive investigators.......and just because a document might’ve been found at the crime scene does not prove it’s legitimate.

JMO

ETA - All police depts initially refer to deaths as “suspicious” (if the deceased did not appear to die by natural causes ) until such time as the Coroner or Medical Examiner and investigators complete the autopsy and death investigation to reveal the cause and manner of death. It’s a standard term used throughout Canada, I believe the USA and other countries as well.

Well, we wouldn't know, as both of us have mentioned, and it would explain a lot. I feel like if there had been a note and the family were informed, word would have leaked out somewhere, somehow, by someone, since then. I don't believe that BS would've written a note either, even if one had been found, nor even if he'd been tortured to do so. And yes, I'm aware of the use of police use of 'suspicious death', thank you.

 

[dalsglen]

Plus the whole issuing of posing them to recreate the two sculptures smacks of a personal aspect to the killings. Yet, if JS did murder his parents, it's a dumb thing to do since LE would focus their attention on family members or close associates.

Unless, a close associate or family member used the pose to implicate another family member.

I wonder who bought those sculptures? Did it cause any arguments

 

[branmuffin]

Since when do police elaborate on a clarification made to 3 separate police spokespersons' same comments in regard to having identified but not arrested a POI, that the clarification is being made "in fairness to the friends and family of Barry and Honey Sherman"? Why not just a clarification, period?

There seems to be some not so secret interference by someone outside the investigation choreographing how the TPS are to present updates to the media without upsetting the family. Since when does a family control the narrative and the trajectory of an investigation?

 

[branmuffin]

I wonder who bought those sculptures? Did it cause any arguments

I think they might have been destroyed when the home was demolished.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Since when do police elaborate on a clarification made to 3 separate police spokespersons' same comments in regard to having identified but not arrested a POI, that the clarification is being made "in fairness to the friends and family of Barry and Honey Sherman"? Why not just a clarification, period?

*Speculation:* Maybe the recent warrants were served on one family member or friend of the family.

 

[Sphinx]

KD hasn’t come right out to accuse JS, or show anything linking him directly to the crime. But, he hasn’t painted a good picture of him.

In general KD has written that:

- JS & HS ‘hated’ each other.

-In 2015, there was a heated email exchange between JS & BS. JS didn’t like that his father loaned money to FDA and questioned Barry’s competency. JS told his sisters that Barry was mishandling their inheritance, and they should intervene. JS then asked his father for $250 million for a project.

-JS fired Barry’s good friend and business partner Jack Kay

-JS has large mystery mortgages on his Green Storage businesses that are funded by an Apotex company. (You’d have to google it.)

There’s more in the book and online.

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I remember watching the Sherman Funeral live on TV. I was shocked when JS used the F word in his eulogy to his parents. He said "Our family is really f'd up " There were a lot of quiet but stunned looking older people in the audience. I thought, he looks, and acts like he has psychological problems, beyond grief. Lack of impulse control came to mind, and being very self centred. Also I sensed an anger and resentment towards the parents. He told a story about Honey falling on the ski slopes, which did not seem funny, more like he was showing disrespect, and I saw some ladies, about Honey's age scowling. I don't think they liked it, and no one I could see laughed, or even smiled. Although he appeared to be grieving, it struck me as a false show of emotion, and I was suspicious of him even then. IMO

 

[Sphinx]

It's also possible that neither Sherman fought their attackers because right up until the end they were incredulous that they would be murdered by their assailant.

Yes, that is possible, but I tend to think that two or more professional contract killers could have carried out these murders very quickly and efficiently rendering them unconscious, then killing them with continued neck compression, hanging them, and staging the scene to look like a murder suicide, so that LE's investigation would be limited, and the case closed quickly. If they were professionals, there was some sloppiness -- leaving Barry's papers and gloves in the back basement hall, where they likely attacked him, and leaving Honey's cell phone on the floor of the upstairs bathroom. The housekeeper picked it up and put it on a bathroom counter, before she knew they were dead, and similarly, the real estate agent showing the house picked up Barry's gloves and papers from the floor, putting them on a wall ledge, near where they were found, thinking Barry had just dropped them. It is possible that the hired killers had military backgrounds, and experience in killing in such a manner, but little or no experience with cleaning up a crime scene, and staging it. IMO

 

[Satchie]

Seems to be a case of they know who it is but need more evidence.

I think if they were at the stage of 'knowing' who it was, they definitely wouldn't have announced anything that would warn that person.

For example, when they were staking out Bruce McArthur's apartment, they knew it was him, but were watching for more evidence (IMO where he'd hidden the bodies). As soon as someone else was in danger they swooped in with the arrest warrant already in hand,

IMO they don't know who the perp is, they just have someone they'd like to interview or get info from, which could result in clearing them completely. "The goal of any investigation is to identify persons who may have been involved in an offence or to exclude them as suspects."

So the person of interest 'may have been involved or may still be excluded as a suspect'. As I mentioned, IMO that person is not cooperating in the investigation and that's why this info is being released publicly, to send a message to that person. (I believe I have seen this before, but of course, LE don't share their intentions about these releases).

 

[Satchie]

There seems to be some not so secret interference by someone outside the investigation choreographing how the TPS are to present updates to the media without upsetting the family. Since when does a family control the narrative and the trajectory of an investigation?

Good point...that may be the real reason for the 'clarification', some form of demand by the family to know who it is and what TPS know. Or, another possibility, is the 'person of interest' is a member of the family or friend of the family, who has been refusing to be interviewed or share info.

I have no doubt the real story is so much more interesting and subtle than the Laurel and Hardy show that the media create.

 

[clearskies1]

I think if they were at the stage of 'knowing' who it was, they definitely wouldn't have announced anything that would warn that person.

For example, when they were staking out Bruce McArthur's apartment, they knew it was him, but were watching for more evidence (IMO where he'd hidden the bodies). As soon as someone else was in danger they swooped in with the arrest warrant already in hand,

IMO they don't know who the perp is, they just have someone they'd like to interview or get info from, which could result in clearing them completely. "The goal of any investigation is to identify persons who may have been involved in an offence or to exclude them as suspects."

So the person of interest 'may have been involved or may still be excluded as a suspect'. As I mentioned, IMO that person is not cooperating in the investigation and that's why this info is being released publicly, to send a message to that person. (I believe I have seen this before, but of course, LE don't share their intentions about these releases).

True, but the fact that a "pattern"emerged from the evidence may have gotten back to the POI -- especially if the POI was in the Sherman friends/family circle. Or it may have just been obvious to the POI that LE would figure things (pattern) out. I think LE's POI statement may have been an attempt to rattle the POI. JMO.

 

[Sphinx]

True, but the fact that a "pattern"emerged from the evidence may have gotten back to the POI -- especially if the POI was in the Sherman friends/family circle. Or it may have just been obvious to the POI that LE would figure things (pattern) out. I think LE's POI statement may have been an attempt to rattle the POI. JMO.

LE may also want to rattle others close to the person of interest, who have suspicions/and or evidence. Others will not want to be drawn into a double homicide case, or risk being arrested, because LE knows they have not come forth with important information, and could be seen as
accomplices, or as obstructing justice. This is a serious investigation of very high profile murders. It is not going to go away. IMO

 

[ldlager]

True, but the fact that a "pattern"emerged from the evidence may have gotten back to the POI -- especially if the POI was in the Sherman friends/family circle. Or it may have just been obvious to the POI that LE would figure things (pattern) out. I think LE's POI statement may have been an attempt to rattle the POI. JMO.

but wait- there are MANY POI’s according to the ever cryptic Det Price