Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #7

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Cascadia Mount said:
Meabh and Sebastien both had demanding jobs that required travel, I'm surprised no one has mentioned a nanny. That would be useful testimony.
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I have always wondered who looked after the children if both parents were away for work. A nanny’s testimony would be useful regarding Nora’s abilities, although the school principal confirmed the parents’ testimony. But the more information the better, I suppose.
 
Nora Quoirin pathologist says sex assault on teenager 'cannot be ruled out' | The Irish Post
He said however that he agreed with the initial findings that Ms Quoirin had died of intestinal bleeding due to starvation and stress, but added that the poor conditions of her body made it difficult to determine whether or not semen traces or DNA from strangers were identifiable.

"I think we can exclude very serious trauma to the genitalia ... but I won't exclude minimal trauma because of the decomposition obscuring things," Mr Cary said during a virtual inquest.

"The difficulty here is because of the decomposition, the forensic evidence would be disadvantaged to an extent."
 
Asked by the family’s lawyer, Cary agreed that he could not exclude the possibility that her body may have been placed there after her death, given that rescuers had searched the specific location. He also agreed there was no evidence Nora had any major falls in the rough terrain despite her physical disabilities.


However, Cary said the multiple lacerations and scratches on Nora’s body indicated she had moved through dense undergrowth. The cuts on her feet were also “not trivial,” he said.

Nora’s parents had told the inquest they noticed her feet “didn’t seem to be particularly damaged” when they identified her body.
Pathologist can’t rule out sex assault of teen who died in Malaysian jungle
 
This is one of those cases that struck a chord with me, Nora looks like such a sweet girl, it is so tragic and awful she was found like this.

I am new to websleuths so I havn't followed the full previous threads just joining in with this one now. What are all your thoughts about this case? Do you think it is likely that there was some kind of foul play involved? I admittedly don't know all the details but I am leaning towards a suspicion that there was foul play of some sort.

Did anyone else think that Nora's weight was extremely low? I think I read 30kg which is 4 stone 7 lbs or thereabouts. I was considered very light and small at 15 but I think I was 6 stone! She must have been so so very vulnerable and fragile.
 
 
polerina said:
This is one of those cases that struck a chord with me, Nora looks like such a sweet girl, it is so tragic and awful she was found like this.

I am new to websleuths so I havn't followed the full previous threads just joining in.

Did anyone else think that Nora's weight was extremely low? I think I read 30kg which is 4 stone 7 lbs or thereabouts. I was considered very light and small at 15 but I think I was 6 stone! She must have been so so very vulnerable and fragile.
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Hi ,I’m fairly new in here myself .Yes ,I remarked to someone elsewhere that Nora’s weight was very low for a 15 yr old .
I wonder did she not eat very much because she already had an ulcer troubling her .
 
Zuleika said:
Hi ,I’m fairly new in here myself .Yes ,I remarked to someone elsewhere that Nora’s weight was very low for a 15 yr old .
I wonder did she not eat very much because she already had an ulcer troubling her .
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Her mother said in an inquest that Nora enjoyed food and ate very well. She had a full lunch and dinner before going missing.
 
polerina said:
This is one of those cases that struck a chord with me, Nora looks like such a sweet girl, it is so tragic and awful she was found like this.

I am new to websleuths so I havn't followed the full previous threads just joining in with this one now. What are all your thoughts about this case? Do you think it is likely that there was some kind of foul play involved? I admittedly don't know all the details but I am leaning towards a suspicion that there was foul play of some sort.

Did anyone else think that Nora's weight was extremely low? I think I read 30kg which is 4 stone 7 lbs or thereabouts. I was considered very light and small at 15 but I think I was 6 stone! She must have been so so very vulnerable and fragile.
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She was 5 foot 4 inches and her weight was only 66 lbs?
 
Chiatos said:
So the cuts on her feet were significant?
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Looks that way.
But I haven't had time to listen to the livestream, or even locate it.
It does not state she somehow transcended her known abilities, however.
Leaves us nowhere.
Parents both referred to her feet while testifying and mother stated they had already seen the second autopsy report.
 
The parents say she did not have the stamina to survive in the jungle on her own, but she didn’t, so that is moot. I think if she were kidnapped she would have died a lot sooner and from a different cause, or she would possibly have been fed if someone was going to keep her around. Unfortunately I think this seems like a very tragic accident.
 
“Whilst it's not possible at my examination to confirm the cause of death recorded in Malaysia because the duodenum has either become autolysed or retained in Malaysia for microscoping analysis, I'm satisfied that there was evidence of duodenal ulceration, perforation and hemorrhage on the basis of a detailed description provided.


“My opinion is duodenal ulceration, perforation and hemorrhage which was the principle underlying cause of death has developed as a result of starvation and physiological stress,” Cary, the inquest’s 43rd witness, said during the hearing that was conducted via video-conferencing.

Cary also said the autopsy on Quoirin was conducted at Westminster Public Mortuary in London after her body was repatriated from Malaysia following her discovery several days after she had gone missing at a jungle resort in Negri Sembilan.

“I am unable to exclude (sexual assault) from my examination alone, but If one adopts the Malaysian pathlogists report, then in my opinion the examination has been very thorough, then I agree that there is no positive evidence,” he said, adding that Quoirin’s genitalia also did not show any abnormalities.

When asked if one could assume rape did not occur, Cary replied in the affirmative but pointed out that sexual assault can take many forms including limited digital penetration without causing injuries.

“Based on the analysis carried out in Malaysia and my own examination, I think we could exclude serious trauma to the genitalia.

“I wouldn't be able to exclude minimal trauma because of the decomposition obscuring things. So that’s how it stands in my mind,” he said.

Earlier in his external observation of recent injuries, Cary had noted that there were superficial scratches on both of Quoirin’s legs and not obvious major areas of wounding on both front and back torso.
Nora Anne Quoirin inquest: UK forensic pathologist says no reason to dispute autopsy findings, further examination hampered decomposition | Malay Mail
 
For me the salient issue will always be why. Everything that was said by the people that knew Nora makes it seem like she would never have taken off in the dark and if she were that resourceful why didn't she respond to the searchers? I don't think there will be an answer but my personal belief is that Nora didn't get to that place on her own.
 
Cascadia Mount said:
For me the salient issue will always be why. Everything that was said by the people that knew Nora makes it seem like she would never have taken off in the dark and if she were that resourceful why didn't she respond to the searchers? I don't think there will be an answer but my personal belief is that Nora didn't get to that place on her own.
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I agree she didn't get there on her own.
The experts have testified she did not have that capacity.

Now, I think she was held for awhile.
'no marks on her torso or back'
She wasn't wearing any clothes and when last seen had only been wearing underwear, probably just pants because the night was so hot that none of the children would wear pyjamas.* mother's testimony.

Does that mean that her body was protected by clothing for a time?
Where would she have found clothing?
She did not have the capacity to find clothing.

The why will , most likely remain an unanswered question forever.

The judge/coroner will not make her decision until the new year.
 
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