Possibly related cases (GB4, Manorville, Bittrolff victims, & others)

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I was really referring to a rumor that 3 of the GB4 were found with their panties shoved down their throats. I haven't a clue if this is true or not. You can agree it is something the cops would want to keep out of the public should they get a suspect that knows that if it is true;
 
hawkshaw said:
I was really referring to a rumor that 3 of the GB4 were found with their panties shoved down their throats. I haven't a clue if this is true or not. You can agree it is something the cops would want to keep out of the public should they get a suspect that knows that if it is true;
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Interesting
 
hawkshaw said:
I was really referring to a rumor that 3 of the GB4 were found with their panties shoved down their throats. I haven't a clue if this is true or not. You can agree it is something the cops would want to keep out of the public should they get a suspect that knows that if it is true;
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That would add a whole new level of horror, so invasive and degrading. Shoving objects down victims' throats is more common than some would think. There are a number of killers I can think of off the top of my head who've done this... John Wayne Gacy, Arthur Shawcross, Richard Chase, Rodney Alcala, Gary Ray Bowles. I know there's numerous I've missed. They're silencing them for a final time.
 
By way of introduction, I am new here but very much intrigued by the LISK case having recently simply tripping over some news item somewhere (frankly, I really do not recall where/what now). That reference and subsequent simple online searching ultimately led me here to websleuths.com out of curiosity and interest in what others (those typically outside the criminal justice system and media) were surmising and postulating. Yes, I have picked up that you are retired law enforcement. Your posts, however, have given me belief that your position is helping solve the situation based on facts and without necessarily aligning with your profession. You are a very admirable man, sir.

As a "newbie", I am interested, excited, in awe and overwhelmed with what I have discovered here on websleuth.com. There are so many posts, threads and related/relevant forums that I find it difficult where to begin as a newcomer. This is certainly understandable on my part given the age of a case along with the political entanglements that appear possibly intertwined. I am dizzy from the hours/weeks/months of toiling through the thousands of comments in the several subjects and quite frankly, I did not get through all of them.

In closing, I felt comfortable with reaching out to you given your multiple posts and obvious intellectual perspective here in several forums. I do not know where I should pose my questions. I do not necessarily wish to start a new forum as I feel there are too many diverse forums already. Might I communicate my questions to you first and then accept your recommendation as to where to put forth my questions to the greater websleuths.com community?
 
Having previously introduced myself, and being so very new to this case, I have developed some questions that I have been unable to find answers for. I have dredged online what I have come to know are the local media sources. I am just trying to get up to speed thus want to put forth the following questions that I have not found referenced online here or the media. I believe if anyone has knowledge it would be you. I would like to ask the following and apologize in advance if they have been answered previously but I simply could not find it:
  • Has anyone identified the home address(es) of TS (and family) and JB (and family) during the “disappearance” dates of the identified victims?
  • Has anyone tracked other properties/businesses owned by TS (and family) and JB (and family) during the “disappearance” dates of the identified victims?
  • Have any tangible personal/social ties between TS/JB with Oak Beach residents been identified? Card night, bowling leagues, stargazing, boating, fishing. etc.?
  • I’m looking back at notes for the reference that someone in OB had frequent parties; anyone have references?
 
GrayShadow said:
Having previously introduced myself, and being so very new to this case, I have developed some questions that I have been unable to find answers for. I have dredged online what I have come to know are the local media sources. I am just trying to get up to speed thus want to put forth the following questions that I have not found referenced online here or the media. I believe if anyone has knowledge it would be you. I would like to ask the following and apologize in advance if they have been answered previously but I simply could not find it:
  • Has anyone identified the home address(es) of TS (and family) and JB (and family) during the “disappearance” dates of the identified victims?
  • Has anyone tracked other properties/businesses owned by TS (and family) and JB (and family) during the “disappearance” dates of the identified victims?
  • Have any tangible personal/social ties between TS/JB with Oak Beach residents been identified? Card night, bowling leagues, stargazing, boating, fishing. etc.?
  • I’m looking back at notes for the reference that someone in OB had frequent parties; anyone have references?
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JBrw's wife had recently left him. He was "enjoying" bachelor life. I have so many links saved and notes taken that I cannot give you a reference. Shouldnt be hard to find, im just tired. And by tired i mean lazy. Literally querry his name, oak beach, sex parties. More than one individual has mentioned his parties. Also, lest we forget he did hire a sex worker so we know he wasnt spending his nights reading Proust. If you believe Leanne, these parties were frequent on Oak Beach. But she didnt name names. Oh, except one name...JBk (so many JBs).
PS if you do decide to search the term oak beach and parties, a bowling league turns up. Very specific that you nentioned bowling.
 
I'm posting in reference to 'The Killing Season's' River Man... I think I may have encountered him in ALABAMA. I thought things about the GB4 cases and everything in between leading up to the introduction of the River Man, sounded an awful lot like a run in I had with a very very strange man when I was escorting in AL in 2017. I was thinking wow, this adds up to pieces of my experience with a man that I believe would've seriously hurt me had I not been on guard as I was, but then I thought, nahh hew has no connection to AL. I was SHOCKED when Rachel and Josh mention that his LAST KNOWN LOCATION WAS ALABAMA! Unfortunately, I only know he was in Mobile, AL last, not when and who he is. Here's why I think he COULD POSSIBLY be someone I encountered. . .
I was living in a hotel, and escorting toward the end of 2017. It wasn't a seedy hotel, it was nice, a very nice Days Inn in Trussleville, AL. Perhaps that had something to do with the odd request...here's similarities to the original GB4 cases, though keep in mind, location is very different as I was about 3.5-4 hrs from the beach, and in AL (but they do have evidence his tail goes cold there. (Anyone know when? If so, please do tell!) Heres the things that make me wonder if he was connected to this man, or who ever the killer or once of the killers are...

1.) I was escorting off of Craigslist, and Backpage, where I came across this man. Name unknown.
2.) He offered $1,000 to me. At one point I backed out, and he upped the ante to $1,500. (Both were exact increments thrown at 2 of the GB4 girls.)
3.) He was offering this kind of money for me to have a CAR date with him, even though I had my own room. (This is the first thing that made me EXTREMELY uneasy. The pricing was the second, as I'm not that naive.)
4.) He requested that when he pulled up out front of the room, that I would open my curtain windows and flash him. (I gave him a room # a couple doors down as I didn't want him to know where my room was just yet, because something didn't feel right. I wanted to be able to scope this situation out first.) After that, I would come out to the car. I asked him where we would go or if we would stay in the parking lot (either was too risky for my liking.) He didn't answer that, he only said "just come out". He said he was there, but I was (very, very discreetly as to not tip off my room location) watching out of the window and saw NO car pull up. Leading me to believe he had already been there. He called and told me to come out to his car, but oddly wouldn't give me a detailed description...just that he was in an SUV out front. This is where it gets BIZZARE! ... After some time, he calls and asks if I'm coming. I said I don't feel comfortable. This was where
he upped the ante from $1,000 - $1,500) making me even MORE SUSPICIOUS. I waited a while, looked out the window for someone sitting in their car, and saw NO ONE. I tip toed out with mace in hand, and a switch knife (locked in the open position to be prepared) in my waistband. I began peeking into a few of the cars between my door and the door number I gave this fellow. I came up to an SUV that I was unfamiliar with being there over the past days, and peek in the back.... and there he was.
This man appeared to be naked, he MAY have had underwear on, but I couldn't see that. This guy was crouched back there facing downward, He was positioned like he was on his knees, then just bent forward until his forehead touched the seat. (Exactly like a yoga 'child's pose'! If you don't know what that is, I have it attached in a pic below.) The parking lot was dark, there was only residual lighting from the lights in front of the hotel doors, so his white skin really stuck out, which is how I know he was unclothed, but at my angle, his head was toward me. If I opened the door, he would've been facing me... SO He may have had boxers on or something, I can't say definitively bc of his positioning, I couldn't see any of that part of him. But I did see the top of his buttcrack so....idk. ANYWAYS
... TOTALLY CREEPY RIGHT!? I've never seen anything like it! My hair's raised and I RAN for my room, got in locked up, stuck a chair under the door handle, and locked myself in the bathroom.
5.) He called. I answered and said "I'm not coming." He said, "$1500. Are you coming?" I said "no im uncomfortable, I'm going to pass. Thank you. He says "$2000, 2500?" I hang up, because I now know he's danger, has no intention of paying, and is probably there to hurt me. My intuition is hardly ever wrong. He calls again. I dont know why I answered but I did...he says "Do you know what happens to a '*advertiser censored*'?" (OH YES, PLEASE NOTE, THERE WAS NOOOO SOUTHERN ACCENT. HE WAS NOT AN ALABAMIAN.) I hung up, afraid. I continued to get blocked calls, and didn't answer. This went on for a few days. I left the hotel the very next morning. Fortunately, the calls subsided a few days after, and I'm left wondering who the hell I encountered and what would've happened to me if I would've opened that car door to meet him had I fell into that money trap.
6.) I, at the time, was also a drug user which is why I was escorting off of CL and BP.

So with aaaaaalllllllllll these coincidences, the escorting, the use of Craigslist and Backpage, drug use (though he wouldn't have known that, it would've had to be an assumption), the strict request for a car date (even with a room I paid for a week, a safer place to be...), the evasiveness of where we'd be going in said car, the ridiculous money offer starting with the 2 increments the other girls fell for, calling me a *advertiser censored*, thes taunting with calls period, the lack of AL accent, AL being the last known location (like I said, idk when, this was 2017, but still the fact that this guy WAS known to even be there...uhg... spooktacular!!!) It just all seems soooooo coincidental. Too coincidental.
 
Forgive me for being 'late to the party' here, but was it ever determined if Bittrolff sounds like the guy--presumably the LISK-- who made the calls to Amanda ? If not, wouldn't that rule him out as the LISK ? Somewhere in the media articles I've read online, it was mentioned that the guy who called has an 'elegant' manner of speech...
 
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I've not heard about the word "elegant" being used to describe the caller, but if that's the case, it's very intriguing. That's not a word commonly used to describe a man's voice or manner of speaking.

Somehow I just can't attribute that to Bitrolff, though...but easy enough to cross-check
 
Laiken said:
I'm posting in reference to 'The Killing Season's' River Man... I think I may have encountered him in ALABAMA. I thought things about the GB4 cases and everything in between leading up to the introduction of the River Man, sounded an awful lot like a run in I had with a very very strange man when I was escorting in AL in 2017. I was thinking wow, this adds up to pieces of my experience with a man that I believe would've seriously hurt me had I not been on guard as I was, but then I thought, nahh hew has no connection to AL. I was SHOCKED when Rachel and Josh mention that his LAST KNOWN LOCATION WAS ALABAMA! Unfortunately, I only know he was in Mobile, AL last, not when and who he is. Here's why I think he COULD POSSIBLY be someone I encountered. . .
I was living in a hotel, and escorting toward the end of 2017. It wasn't a seedy hotel, it was nice, a very nice Days Inn in Trussleville, AL. Perhaps that had something to do with the odd request...here's similarities to the original GB4 cases, though keep in mind, location is very different as I was about 3.5-4 hrs from the beach, and in AL (but they do have evidence his tail goes cold there. (Anyone know when? If so, please do tell!) Heres the things that make me wonder if he was connected to this man, or who ever the killer or once of the killers are...

1.) I was escorting off of Craigslist, and Backpage, where I came across this man. Name unknown.
2.) He offered $1,000 to me. At one point I backed out, and he upped the ante to $1,500. (Both were exact increments thrown at 2 of the GB4 girls.)
3.) He was offering this kind of money for me to have a CAR date with him, even though I had my own room. (This is the first thing that made me EXTREMELY uneasy. The pricing was the second, as I'm not that naive.)
4.) He requested that when he pulled up out front of the room, that I would open my curtain windows and flash him. (I gave him a room # a couple doors down as I didn't want him to know where my room was just yet, because something didn't feel right. I wanted to be able to scope this situation out first.) After that, I would come out to the car. I asked him where we would go or if we would stay in the parking lot (either was too risky for my liking.) He didn't answer that, he only said "just come out". He said he was there, but I was (very, very discreetly as to not tip off my room location) watching out of the window and saw NO car pull up. Leading me to believe he had already been there. He called and told me to come out to his car, but oddly wouldn't give me a detailed description...just that he was in an SUV out front. This is where it gets BIZZARE! ... After some time, he calls and asks if I'm coming. I said I don't feel comfortable. This was where
he upped the ante from $1,000 - $1,500) making me even MORE SUSPICIOUS. I waited a while, looked out the window for someone sitting in their car, and saw NO ONE. I tip toed out with mace in hand, and a switch knife (locked in the open position to be prepared) in my waistband. I began peeking into a few of the cars between my door and the door number I gave this fellow. I came up to an SUV that I was unfamiliar with being there over the past days, and peek in the back.... and there he was.
This man appeared to be naked, he MAY have had underwear on, but I couldn't see that. This guy was crouched back there facing downward, He was positioned like he was on his knees, then just bent forward until his forehead touched the seat. (Exactly like a yoga 'child's pose'! If you don't know what that is, I have it attached in a pic below.) The parking lot was dark, there was only residual lighting from the lights in front of the hotel doors, so his white skin really stuck out, which is how I know he was unclothed, but at my angle, his head was toward me. If I opened the door, he would've been facing me... SO He may have had boxers on or something, I can't say definitively bc of his positioning, I couldn't see any of that part of him. But I did see the top of his buttcrack so....idk. ANYWAYS
... TOTALLY CREEPY RIGHT!? I've never seen anything like it! My hair's raised and I RAN for my room, got in locked up, stuck a chair under the door handle, and locked myself in the bathroom.
5.) He called. I answered and said "I'm not coming." He said, "$1500. Are you coming?" I said "no im uncomfortable, I'm going to pass. Thank you. He says "$2000, 2500?" I hang up, because I now know he's danger, has no intention of paying, and is probably there to hurt me. My intuition is hardly ever wrong. He calls again. I dont know why I answered but I did...he says "Do you know what happens to a '*advertiser censored*'?" (OH YES, PLEASE NOTE, THERE WAS NOOOO SOUTHERN ACCENT. HE WAS NOT AN ALABAMIAN.) I hung up, afraid. I continued to get blocked calls, and didn't answer. This went on for a few days. I left the hotel the very next morning. Fortunately, the calls subsided a few days after, and I'm left wondering who the hell I encountered and what would've happened to me if I would've opened that car door to meet him had I fell into that money trap.
6.) I, at the time, was also a drug user which is why I was escorting off of CL and BP.

So with aaaaaalllllllllll these coincidences, the escorting, the use of Craigslist and Backpage, drug use (though he wouldn't have known that, it would've had to be an assumption), the strict request for a car date (even with a room I paid for a week, a safer place to be...), the evasiveness of where we'd be going in said car, the ridiculous money offer starting with the 2 increments the other girls fell for, calling me a *advertiser censored*, thes taunting with calls period, the lack of AL accent, AL being the last known location (like I said, idk when, this was 2017, but still the fact that this guy WAS known to even be there...uhg... spooktacular!!!) It just all seems soooooo coincidental. Too coincidental.
Click to expand...
what a scary story, Laiken, thank you for sharing with all of us.
 
a long time ago when I was in my early twenties, I met a guy about my same age near Venice Beach in Los Angeles, CA...he helped me parallel park my car when I was out with a friend. He asked me out on a date a week later, my friend had left town by then. I didn't want to go on the date, being a very shy and inexperienced dater, but that same friend encouraged me to go, it was only lunch after all. I met him at his apartment and he invited me inside while he grabbed a wallet or something.... he sat down on his couch and invited me next to him, and to sit on his lap while we discussed where to go to lunch, he was very calm, talked calm and softly, he then casually put his hands around my throat and, started non chalantly talking about my "beautiful neck" and then out of nowhere, within a split second, he started to squeeze... I don't know how on Earth I got out of his grasp, but I will never forget how fast I ran from there , into my car and away.... I know he was going to kill me, I can still feel the sick feeling of him , in my gut, when I remember that incident. I am telling you all this to relay how quickly and out of seemingly nowhere a strangulation can occur, and how fast it can all be over with. This all happened within 10 minutes max. This guy was not even very strong or much bigger than me. But the fact I had no idea who he was, I can see how people get away with killing others , especially women who work as prostitutes when no one calls to report them missing and no one knows who the date was or where they went. My family and I were asstranged at the time, so it would have been a few days before anyone reported me gone at least, and no one knew where I had gone except my friend from out of town.... that would have taken awhile to track down her , if that ever would have happened at all.

I will always regret not calling the incident in to the police, I was in shock for a long while and too ashamed to tell anyone. It never even crossed my mind to report it, but now I wish that I had. Only because maybe my experience would have helped connect the dots to someone else's situation. I am sure now this guy was killing people and I was one that got away. We need to talk more openly as a society about these things, so all people feel supported and encoraged to report any kind of abuse... so we can ultimately catch these perps and keep one another safe. We are all in this together ultimately. Thanks for listening and I hope my post was useful and not too off topic. I just think I know a little bit how all these ladies felt right before their death too, because I was there too once. And I know how these killers can fool and then spring on you as quickly as a wild animal/predator.
 
We caught this fellow who cut off the heads off of two gay men and put their heads in the lap of one of the dead guys pointed at the TV to watch the World Series. When we caught him he told us how he was in the park ogling a girl lying o n her back Sunning herself. He was able to see a bit. Up her skirt to see her panty line and was tryi ng to find a way how to get to her. She was lucky And never knew how close to dying that day
 
Fabra said:
I've not heard about the word "elegant" being used to describe the caller, but if that's the case, it's very intriguing. That's not a word commonly used to describe a man's voice or manner of speaking.

Somehow I just can't attribute that to Bitrolff, though...but easy enough to cross-check
Click to expand...

Various online sources report that the guy who talked to Amanda Barthelemy spoke as if he had attended an 'upscale' east coast college -- that he spoke like a 'sophisticated' gentleman would speak. They also say that he emphasized his 's's and 't's when he spoke. They believe he is well-off financially and likely has connections to 'higher up' people with money and power.
 
Bitrolff doesn't strike me as the sophisticated type. His voice is available as well for Amanda to confirm.

One thing worth considering about the calls is that if this guy can put on the charming rich guy act and then strangle these women to death, he may be able to play other roles.

Having grown up on the Island, I know the accent and delivery is intermittent for some people, especially those who have spent significant time elsewhere. Being in a highly emotional state, whether enthused, excited or upset can bring it out in certain folks as can being under the influence of alcohol.

I bet you the average guy who grew up on Long Island can accentuate and exaggerate their accent if they so chose. It wouldn't come off as inauthentic if you never heard them speak before. Whomever made the calls may have turned the dial on the "LI Accent" up or down as well as controlled their delivery to make it difficult to match to their normal speech if you were to hear an audio clip of them in everyday life.
 
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