Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[minazoe]

sbm for relevance -
I agree and do not envy anyone who has to wade thru that many tips. I recently skimmed over some of the tip reports included in the Israel Keyes case file (located on the FBI’s website). Tip after tip after tip said something to the effect of — “I just watched something about Israel Keyes on a TV, and I’m pretty sure I saw his white truck parked at Target one day back in November or December. The words bonded and insured were displayed on the side and I think it had a tool box on it. I don’t know the exact day. It could’ve also been October.”

And that’s it — that was the tip. There were SO many like that.

well the tip about the truck in the parking lot becomes a lead when they need to place IK in a certain location ...now
they take that tip and find out where is the parking lot etc. they interview the eye witness , they get surveillance footage. They see the truck they can now place IK at the Target in Bad Luck, AK. mOO

 

[Paige Franklin]

What if someone had made himself a small camp where the girls were found? A small camp that could view the bridge, although they were well hidden. Perhaps other children had even been led to this small camp before by BG but they never told anyone out of fear. Perhaps this time BG just decided to kill also.
Something to think about imo.

I was listening with headphones bc it was night and my son was next to me, when they first released the new one with "guys" included. I could hear clear as day (in my own head hahaha) one of the girls scream. "Oh my God, noooooo!!!" I cant be sure that they removed/ attempted to cover that, but it is so clear to me. Wear headphones and listen. I cant unhear it. I hear the scream every time I hear that clip. In my opinion, that is what is missing and why it clearly sounds dubbed out.

I live in a metropolitan area and run regularly through a park that has a canal running through it. The other day something made me look down the embankment on the side of the path towards the canal and I had to do a double take. There was a couple tents and a whole living space set up I had never noticed it was that well hidden in the trees and vegetation so close to where I am and had never noticed it. I could absolutely see BG standing or hiding in the vegetation without being noticed.

I have also been thinking about how much in control and how quick BG must have been. The girls weren't the only ones there that day and BG had no way of knowing how soon someone else may come along so I can't imagine he would be comfortable with anything like prolonged screaming. I did relisten to the audio with headphones and do hear the female voice mentioned above, not sure if it's just the power of suggestion or not but it's interesting.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I listened to the audio clip with headphones and I can also hear what might be a female voice but I doubt it is. The clip has been heavily edited by LE. They only wanted us to hear this tiny bit and went to great lengths to only present us with four words.(frustrating to us all!)
I doubt that after going to all that trouble they would have released a clip where you can in any way discern any background talk. They certainly have the technology to remove it. Just my thoughts.

 

[zencompass]

I submitted that many times, but not just to the email tip line. I submitted to the Indiana State police and the FBI. I did it because human beings make mistakes and I thought maybe they missed it. But I agree after that many times, it is enough. The last time I think I submitted was after the 2 years anniversary because shortly after that they had the April 2019 press conference where they released the second sketch, and the person's description and age I submitted looked nothing like the second sketch. So I stopped.

Dear @somequestions,

I genuinely admire your integrity and compassion in submitting your tip, especially both to the Indiana State Police and to the F.B.I.

Human beings do make mistakes, as you say, and we don't know if the second sketch is that of a person seen there but not necessarily the monster who did this. We just don't know.

You may not have received contact back from the authorities but that doesn't mean that your tip didn't lead somewhere. It could have been an important piece of the puzzle yet there are still some pieces (or one) missing.

Be very proud of your contribution to the tip line, the I.S.P. and the F.B.I.

You may very well find out - when this case is solved that your tip led to something crucial.

Best regards,
Zen

Here is a video from 2017 with the lead investigator speaking about the importance of calling in a tip if you feel strongly about it:

(he also mentions how crucial it is that the F.B.I. are working with them on this case)
(at video time 6:44 )

 

[bigdata]

Has reason been given for why audio is edited?

couple additional miscellaneous thoughts..

BG maneuvers the bridge w/extreme familiarity..i.e. hands close to body, .doesnt appear to be any caution to his walk, imo he has spent more than a couple times on it..his hunting ground

im blown away that, even with less than perfect video, he has not been identified, imo reason being is he not a local to the extent that he has been there for years and has not ingrained himself in the community(s) ..but he’s very versed in the area and layout..i will refer back to this point towards end of my post

again, surprised someone close to him (almost 4 years now) either then or someone who may have developed an even fleeting relationship or friendship since hasn’t acted based on “there’s something wrong here” scenario..imo his interactions w/others is minimal if any, no mate, if he spends time day in day out w/any person(s), they have their routine, he has his but they’re completely separate and non-intertwining..ex: (and sorta tying into last paragraph point)..he relocated to area sometime before 2016 but not too far before, therefore he’s local w/o actually being local, maybe living in a situation w/married sibling who is focused on his/her day to day and he , textbook loner, just works and not much else..imo he’s gone from area but he lived that “plug n’ play” existence, pre- Delphi things weren’t working out, so moved to area, no mortgage, formal lease etc,

last thing..that day was unseasonably mild, yet he’s layered..imo probably a stretch but looks like he’s dressed 1/2 for work 1/2 casual, re: occupations, sometimes layers are reflective of extended time spent in refrigeration, freezers, whether that be warehouse, store or even back of 18wheel trailer

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I listened to the audio clip with headphones and I can also hear what might be a female voice but I doubt it is. The clip has been heavily edited by LE. They only wanted us to hear this tiny bit and went to great lengths to only present us with four words.(frustrating to us all!)
I doubt that after going to all that trouble they would have released a clip where you can in any way discern any background talk. They certainly have the technology to remove it. Just my thoughts.

Actually would be a poverty certificate for LE, if the video included the girls' voices. IMO

 

[zencompass]

The following videos are mostly from 2017 and I find it interesting comparing what they said back then and recently.

I posted some Indiana State Police Road Show videos over a year ago and am posting them again now in case you are interested in watching them.

The first one is timestamped 3.5.2017.

At the 7:46 mark, PIO Captain David Bursten, Indiana State Police, speaks about this case.

Captain Bursten says "The majority of people may make the assumption that the person in the video image is the same person who says "down the hill". He says that this may not necessarily be the case. We're not making assumptions about that."

"We have more video, we have more audio. But it is specific to this investigation and that is why it's not being released at this time."


Video dated 3.5.2017 Indiana State Police

Video dated January 28,2020 Indiana State Police Road Show:

WRTV news (April 2017) interview with Lead investigator,
Sergeant Jerry Holeman:

 

[Yemelyan]

Re: public information officer Bursten's comments. First of all, he is not an investigator (maybe I should say he was not, as he is now retired from the ISP). The majority of his work in this role is community engagement and state police recruiting. A minor part of his job is to write press releases and manage information flow at press conferences. As such, his primary role is to limit information getting out that could compromise the early stages of the investigation, and to prevent particular narratives from getting entrenched before LE have fully investigated and are ready to commit to them. Therefore, it doesn't surprise me that at an early stage of the investigation he's cautioning against assumptions that people are making.

Second of all, if he says on 3/5/2017 that the person speaking and the person on the bridge MAY not necessarily be the same person, but it's anounced by authorities in April 2019 that the two DEFINITELY ARE one and the same, to which statement do we give more weight? The one made 3 weeks into the investigation or the one made two years in, after extensive analysis of the video and audio from Libby's phone?

Third, Bursten has made more than one statement that has seemed at odds with the official LE narrative. In fact, the reporters behind the "Down the Hill" podcast contacted him to see if he would explain them. Retired at that time, he told them that his comments may not be reflective of current thinking in the case and referred them to current investigators.

 

[zencompass]

If you look again at my post, I typed "PIO" in front of Captain Bursten's name. PIO stands for Public Information Officer, just as the caption on the video shows.

Also, you will find that there are many contradictions from members of this investigation team over the years.

 

[Yemelyan]

If you look again at my post, I typed "PIO" in front of Captain Bursten's name. PIO stands for Public Information Officer, just as the caption on the video shows.

Also, you will find that there are many contradictions from members of this investigation team over the years.

If this is directed at me, I wasn't accusing you of misidentifying him. I was merely also using his title so that anyone reading could be clear what I meant when I say his job as public information officer didn't make him an investigator on the Delphi case. He wasn't out checking alibis or interrogating suspects or anything like that - that's not his job.

As to the second part of your post, yes, there have been many contradictions over the years. So I go back to my question...which statements should we give more weight to? The ones made when the investigation was young or the ones made after analysis and review?

I don't think anyone would say that an investigation cannot make changes in tactics or standard theory of what happened, based on new developments over time?

 

[girlfriday]

Someone needs to ask “how many men are depicted on the bridge?”... to see if the answer might help clear up assumptions / confusion. IMO.

 

[somequestions]

But one would hope that LE's opinion would be based on a line of actual evidence that they've developed, not an idea just plucked out of the air once other theories were exhausted. Unless I misunderstand you?

I think LE already told us this. The "intelligence developed over time" is what informed their change of direction/"opinion" about the case. Just because they didn't tell us what it was, doesn't mean it was arbitrary or not well-reasoned.

Since we do not know what LE knows regarding evidence in the case I have to assume you are correct. However, since the second sketch looks nothing like the person in the Liberty German phone video, it is hard to say their opinion of the case is the correct one. What it looks like to me, in my opinion, is that LE did lots of investigating tips and came to the conclusion that without an accurate description of the bridge guy, they needed to try another eyewitness sighting. They chose a sketch from early in the investigation of a person that has yet to be identified as being out on the trail that day, who may or may not have had a vehicle parked nearby. I think LE was trying to play the odds that they would get lucky with this sketch.

And as of today, that 2nd sketch has not helped solve the case. I think what LE means by needing that one last piece of the puzzle is the name and address of the person or persons who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German. This is what I think, my opinion. I think it is that simple.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think what LE means by needing that one last piece of the puzzle is the name and address of the person or persons who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German. This is what I think, my opinion. I think it is that simple.

Yes, what’s missing has been the “who”.

Feb 12, 2020
"We have a completed puzzle right now of what happened to those two little girls," Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter said last week. "The only thing we’re missing is 'who.'"
Seeking justice for Abby and Libby

 

[minazoe]

they know the exact time , the means, the complications, the methods, weapons, signatures, circumstances and exactly how the girls died. they know the motive and have a profile of the killer...

they may have a parabon from DNA that spurred the second sketch...right? Maybe the DNA doesn't match the height and other features of our BG on the video.

the reason I say parabon is because of the part that claims he could be older then he looks, or older than the sketch looks.

mOO

 

[MistyWaters]

DBM

 

[MistyWaters]

they know the exact time , the means, the complications, the methods, weapons, signatures, circumstances and exactly how the girls died. they know the motive and have a profile of the killer...

they may have a parabon from DNA that spurred the second sketch...right? Maybe the DNA doesn't match the height and other features of our BG on the video.

the reason I say parabon is because of the part that claims he could be older then he looks, or older than the sketch looks.

mOO

DNA doesn’t reveal age and not sure what you mean by “DNA doesn’t match his height”. Through careful analysis of the photo against the background images I’d be pretty certain investigators were able to determine the approximate height of the suspect. It’d be much the same technique as the reason there’s height markers on exit doors of department stores, banks etc.

ETA - Childhood nutrition is well known to impact adult height and doesn’t alter DNA.

 

[BNA]

Been reading some saved links...and mulling some things over again.

"I'm speaking directly to the killer, who may be in this room," he said. "We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years, you never thought we’d shift gears to a different investigative strategy, but we have."

Carter continued.

"We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you. And you want to know what we know. One day, you will. Only a coward would do such a thing."

Carter also emphasized he believes the person responsible likely told someone else about the incident.

'Only a coward would do such a thing': Police release new info in Delphi murders


"different Investigative strategy" meaning...
to identify the most appropriate new line(s) of inquiry, the objective of those inquiries.

"new line of inquiry" meaning...
police are probably following a new lead, or they're considering new suspects and new questions to ask the people they've already interviewed or new people yet to be interviewed.

What occured in late 2018 into early 2019 that birthed this "different investigative strategy"? I think that holds thd key to the new sketch, the words ISP Carter spoke to the killer at April 2019 press conference AND the reason why there's been nothing official released since.

Police have stopped asking for assistance, stopped communication with the public. Have reporters stopped asking police for updates? Are their questions being ignored? Are they being told by LE we can't talk about it because it might jeopardize the case?

The silence is not making me think that LE doesn't have a clue, it's making me feel like the silent stone wall they've hit maybe has to do with "the killer who may be in this room". The killer may the reason for the silence. LE must stay silent because they're dealing with a killer who knows how to manipulate and beat the system...AJMO and conjectures.

I think that, even if the killer was not in the room, somebody who knows the killer....or knows somebody that knows the killer....may have been in the room.

 

[Spartygirl]

There's usually a professional from the coroner's/medical examiner's office at the crime scene to document the scene before the victims' bodies are moved IMO

Yeppers.. and who was the coroner at that time in Delphi ??
And where is he now??
JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

I think that, even if the killer was not in the room, somebody who knows the killer....or knows somebody that knows the killer....may have been in the room.

Just running off the 2019 presser
"Indiana State Police To Teen Girls' Killer: "This Is About Power To You"
It is about POWER to you.
may be in room, may not be, but its about power
Indiana State Police To Teen Girls' Killer: "This Is About Power To You"

 

[Spartygirl]

Re: public information officer Bursten's comments. First of all, he is not an investigator (maybe I should say he was not, as he is now retired from the ISP). The majority of his work in this role is community engagement and state police recruiting. A minor part of his job is to write press releases and manage information flow at press conferences. As such, his primary role is to limit information getting out that could compromise the early stages of the investigation, and to prevent particular narratives from getting entrenched before LE have fully investigated and are ready to commit to them. Therefore, it doesn't surprise me that at an early stage of the investigation he's cautioning against assumptions that people are making.

Second of all, if he says on 3/5/2017 that the person speaking and the person on the bridge MAY not necessarily be the same person, but it's anounced by authorities in April 2019 that the two DEFINITELY ARE one and the same, to which statement do we give more weight? The one made 3 weeks into the investigation or the one made two years in, after extensive analysis of the video and audio from Libby's phone?

Third, Bursten has made more than one statement that has seemed at odds with the official LE narrative. In fact, the reporters behind the "Down the Hill" podcast contacted him to see if he would explain them. Retired at that time, he told them that his comments may not be reflective of current thinking in the case and referred them to current investigators.

This does not surprise me at all