Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020

[Kaykedi]

2nd December 2020

BBC Breakfast

Q: Dan, thank you very much for talking to us this morning. How are you?

DC: (Pause) It’s a difficult time.

Q: It certainly is, um, why do you want to talk to us today? What, how, what, what hope of help are you hoping to get?

DC: Over the past few days the search has been very intense in an area near where Es was walking, she had a clearly defined route, we know exactly where she was the last time she communicated with us and there’s been increasing talk among the search teams that perhaps she isn’t up there after all. Based on a number of factors, with Esther’s level of experience, the fact the weather was fantastic, these are clearly marked trails, and the depth of search that’s taken place, um, it’s increasingly become more plausible she isn’t, hasn’t had an accident on the mountain rather than the fact they simply couldn’t find her. And partly the reason I wanted to talk today was because if there’s even the smallest chance she is, (chokes up) excuse me, is still out, is still out there, then I’d like to get that message out that it’s a possibility and that she may still come home.

Q: What have you been told, um, are the possibilities if she’s not on the mountain?

DC: They haven’t speculated with me. The search teams on both sides of the border, the French and Spanish sides, so Esther, Esther was hiking in Spain for the past few weeks, she was clearly compliant with local regulations and such and she was only planning to dip into France for a particular remote mountain shelter and so, but that’s required search on both sides. Both teams have been very honest with me about their expectations with the search X taking place. Now that the case has become more of a judicial investigation in each country, they’ve advised me to do my best not to think about what that might mean. And simply that something else might, may have happened. And that they’re going to start looking into that.

Q: Dan I know this is a difficult time, we began this interview with you saying that, but what is the implication? What have they told you to be prepared for?

DC: Nothing, nothing specific. Um I’ve spent most of the last 4 days walking, to be honest, I’ve been out on the hills um retracing the routes that the search teams had already walked. They walked them multiple times, I walked them multiple times, I’m familiar with the terrain myself now. All they simply said is ‘we don’t think Esther has had an accident on the mountain’. Um they can never be totally 100% certain, it’s still a mountain landscape, but given the nature of the terrain they’ve just come to the conclusion that further search isn’t going to find her because she probably isn’t there, and I need to start waiting for the other police departments to start looking into this.

Q: Esther messaged you via WhatsApp the social media messaging um app on the 22nd of November and then she was on the top of Pic de Sauvegarde on the France/Spain border. It was quite common for you two to be in regular contact and you have absolute confidence in her ability as a walker and someone who’s done this before on her own, is that correct?

DC: Yeah, Esther and I have walked I don’t know how many thousand miles together, we did a 3-month trek this summer, um in the Alps. She’s done solo treks on her own, several times. She’s very competent, very confident, and she had all the equipment with her to stay safe. She usually kept in touch daily but she had warned me there was poor signal in the area and sometimes when she was on her solo trips it wasn’t unknown that it would be one or two days before I heard from her. It was always worrying but she was doing what she absolutely loved to do, I’ve never seen her as happy as she has been the past few weeks, so I respect that side of her and I loved her for it, I, love her for it. She, when she didn’t get in touch I assumed it was a signal issue. Now I’ve since been in the area and found that the signal is actually quite good in a lot of the places she might have been, so, um again that actually narrows down the, if she had had an accident and that was the reason she couldn’t have been in touch it must have been in a very very small area indeed which has been poured over by people, drones, helicopter, dogs, um, yep, so that’s why I, I’m I’m convinced that she isn’t up there.

Q: Ok, um Dan this is a very very tough time, you’ve made that very clear for you and of course for Esther’s family as well. Thank you for talking to us this morning and wish you well and obviously hope for a positive outcome in finding Esther, Esther Dingley.

DC: Thank you very much.

BBC iPlayer - Breakfast - 02/12/2020

Thank you very much Tortoise

 

[Puzzles]

To: Justice2016
I translate Vols et Dégradations as Theft and Damage/Vandalism. Yet your understanding of the English translation is sexual crimes. I'm curious to learn your source, please.

 

[Justice2016]

To: Justice2016
I translate Vols et Dégradations as Theft and Damage/Vandalism. Yet your understanding of the English translation is sexual crimes. I'm curious to learn your source, please.

Hi. If you go to the actual website you will find "sexuelle" stats.

I find it confusing as I studied French years ago.

Hopefully the screenshot will link.

 

[Justice2016]

I looked at population stats for Bagneres de Luchon.

The most recent year stats were given was 2007.

There were 2100 + men and 2400 approx women residing in Luchon in 2007.

In 2020 cut that number by half.
Only 850 men. 850 women. See deduction below. *

In 2014 there were 329 cases of violent crime:

180 cases of "gratuitous violence"
32 cases of sexual violence
68 cases of violence threats
30 cases of "violations of dignity" (includes:
torture, rape, exploitation and slavery. Wikipedia )
19 cases of "villainous" violence (crapuleuse - google translate)

1. In 1 decade the population halved. Eg 1996-2007.

2. 13 years later one can assume that the trend continues?

Thus in 2020 there are only about 850 men and 850 women residing in Luchon!

329 violent crime cases in 2014 for a population total of about 1600* adults.

*assuming their decades-long trend of population halving every 10 years.

The Tour de France cyclists pass through there and have suffered aggression from the locals - news reports.

A town thats greatest income comes from tourism will strive to downplay any crime.

Add that into the mix.

I'm not saying there are hordes of nutcases there but I am saying the ratio of violent crime to population is extravagant.

ETA: edited population estimates for 2014-2020.

Chiffres délinquance Bagneres de Luchon (31110)

 

[Andreee]

I looked at population stats for Bagneres de Luchon.

The most recent year stats were given was 2007.

There were 2100 + men and 2400 approx women residing in Luchon in 2007.

In 2020 cut that number by half.
Only 500 men. 500 women. See deduction below. *

In 2014 there were:
180 cases of "gratuitous violence"
32 cases of sexual violence
68 cases of "menacing violence" (whatever that means. Violence is violence. I'll have to translate "menaces".)
30 cases of affront to dignity.
(What does that cover?)

*
1. In 1 decade the population halved. Eg 1996-2007.

2. 13 years later one can assume that the trend continues?

Thus in 2020 there are about 500 men and 500 women residing in Luchon!

Now look at the violence stats above with those figures in mind.

I've worked in Tourism marketing a fair bit. A town thats greatest income comes from tourism will strive to downplay any crime.

Add that into the mix.

I'm not saying there are hordes of nutcases there but I am saying the ratio of violent crime to population is extravagant.

 

[Justice2016]

I subsequently edited my figures as my earlier stats were too low for the population reduction. I had calculated 1000 adults when it should be 1600 approximately. Fixed.

And added the extra 19 crapuleuse violence cases

 

[Justice2016]

For clarity:

Violent crime cases in the town below Pic de Sauvegarde where Esther was last seen.

A town called Bagneres de Luchon.

2014 stats on a population of approximately 1600 adults.

329 cases of violent crime.

 

[Justice2016]

Bagneres de Luchon is part of a region in France called Haute Garonne.

It's nigh impossible to find news reports of crime in Luchon or Haute Garonne in English but I found this TV report on Youtube.

It's quite a sinister clip.

A few seconds watching, despite the language barrier and it seems there is a big problem - enough to air a warning documentary.

 

[Skiptolou]

Do we have confirmation that the lake at the spot where ED disappeared has been searched? On the short route between the Pic de Sauvegarde and the refuge there is a pool that looks big enough for a person to disappear in. I presume they searched it. Dan would have walked past it when he retraced her steps too.

 

[swedeheart]

Family of British hiker missing in Pyrenees fear she has been kidnapped | Daily Mail Online

 

[swedeheart]

Bagneres de Luchon is part of a region in France called Haute Garonne.

It's nigh impossible to find news reports of crime in Luchon or Haute Garonne in English but I found this TV report on Youtube.

It's quite a sinister clip.

A few seconds watching, despite the language barrier and it seems there is a big problem - enough to air a warning documentary.

I was taken aback by 2 of the victims' similar looks to Esther. Wish I understood more French, but you are correct, you can tell, regardless of language, that there is a predator in this area.

 

[Normal Norm]

Basically the category "Vols et Degradations" is the sexual crime category. It comprises 65.1% of all crimes in the area. That's a lot! More than any other type of crime... lots of perverts in the area proportionate to population.

I would translate "Vols et Degradations" as "Theft and Damage". Are you confusing the words "vol" and "viol"? The latter means "rape" in French.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Bagneres de Luchon is part of a region in France called Haute Garonne.

It's nigh impossible to find news reports of crime in Luchon or Haute Garonne in English but I found this TV report on Youtube.

It's quite a sinister clip.

A few seconds watching, despite the language barrier and it seems there is a big problem - enough to air a warning documentary.

All three of the cases cited in this crime documentary were solved and the perpetrators convicted and are behind bars.

They also happened in Toulouse, which is not particularly close to where Esther went missing.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I was taken aback by 2 of the victims' similar looks to Esther. Wish I understood more French, but you are correct, you can tell, regardless of language, that there is a predator in this area.

The cases in this program have all been solved and the perpetrators convicted and jailed.

The crimes were also committed in/around Toulouse, which is nowhere near where Esther went missing.

 

[Sjm_qc]

For clarity:

Violent crime cases in the town below Pic de Sauvegarde where Esther was last seen.

A town called Bagneres de Luchon.

2014 stats on a population of approximately 1600 adults.

329 cases of violent crime.

Okay, I found these stats too. They aren’t just for Bagneres-de Luchon, they are for the whole area, and concern a total population of 64,502.
Chiffres délinquance Bagneres de Luchon (31110)

I also respectfully suggest that crime statistics from an area across the border from where Esther went missing are a red herring/OT diversion.

(I’m bilingual).

 

[Auntie_Seagull]

This is the photo I was referring to, that someone else clearly took (unless she used a timer):
View attachment 274561

(source: Police searching for missing UK blogger interview boyfriend twice | Daily Mail Online)

This photo was uploaded to "Esther&Dan" facebook page on November 19, so it is obvious it's an older pic, not from the day she went missing and not snapped on Pico de Salvaguardia. It got published, because it shows Ester's whole outfit. I don't see much relevance in who snapped this pic and it could have been snapped by Esther herself (place the camera on the rock, set the timer on, go and pose, done).

 

[Auntie_Seagull]

3. Captain Bordinaro ruled out another theory that Esther was attacked by a bear, saying all the creatures on the mountain are tracked.
(What does this mean? Do they have 24/7 cameras on them? But either way, if mauled/attacked there would be evidence the dogs could detect.)

Very interesting that they've chipped all the animals or use some surveillance technique to track them.

There've been some troubles after bear reintroduction up there in Pyrenees, because these animals tended to treat flocks of sheep as a free buffet. The farmers were not amused, as you can imagine, so both French and Spanish wildlife services now monitor bears very close, using various techniques (and teams of folks with binoculars). So if they say there were no bears in the area, I believe them, especially that it was the end of November and almost all bears already hibernated. Any bear who isn't asleep at this time of the year is closely monitored, because that means it has some health problems (and an insomniac bear is in a nasty mood, so you want to keep it away from people).

 

[TillyMay]

I hope she's found safe and well, her family must be tormented with worry.
Have you read about this case @Pinkerton PI

 

[Sjm_qc]

Hi Sjm,

Can confirm that there has been extensive media coverage in Spain and France.

Thank you!

I’ve now spent a couple of hours reading the French media reports (and social media commentary) and it seems to me that while the authorities on both the French and Spanish sides are doing their due diligence/keeping an open mind about possibilities other than an accident, the abduction/kidnapping suggestions aren’t really plausible.

It’s stated several times that the authorities don’t expect to find her alive, and implied - IMO - that she’s up in the mountains somewhere, they just didn’t spot her.

The impression I have is that the “she’s not there” (because they didn’t find her yet) theory comes mostly from her partner/husband and/or her family members.

I do hope that the chap who gave her a lift on the 19th is found/interviewed soon, if only to eliminate some of the wilder speculation I’ve seen (not here!). IMO again, he’s a red herring.

ETA: by “interviewed”, I mean by LE, not the media.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I would love to read that story, but am not finding it at the link. I know it somehow spans Wheaton and San Diego, and the woman's name is Carolyn, they're at an unnamed religious university - would love to have their story in my files!

The link worked for me: Scott Swanson and Carolyn MacLean, case from 1988 (and there’s a 2017 brief update when Carolyn died).