Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[Deleted member 277705]

As far as I am aware, no witnesses have come forward to say that ED told them she was planning to go to Mount Maladeta. She specifically mentioned that Luchon was on her itinerary. She may well have hiked to Mount Maladeta, I don't know. If people feel happy that she went there, that is fine by me. I favour though that her thoughts were focussed on Luchon.

 

[Satchie]

The hike up the Salvaguardia is considered easy in the many descriptions that I have read.

The hike up the Maladeta is far more difficult and you need to bring crampons to cross the glacier."

RSBM

In my experience, hiking and climbing [also called mountaineering] are two completely different sports. Sauvguardia can be reached by any hiker by following the established trail, whereas Maladeta has no trail and is only a climbing route, ie you ascend your choice of rock walls using ropes and other equipment.

"Important: all the routes of this mountain are only for mountaineers. The trekkers and hikers must [not] try this peak. The technical material is necessary (crampons and ice-axe in the glaciers and rope in the chimneys [along] with the experience in rock-climbing of [yourself and your] partners) Maladeta, Pico de la : Climbing, Hiking & Mountaineering : SummitPost

All the topo maps and guidebooks would have made this clear, IMO.

Perhaps there was some way she could have accidentally blundered onto the glacier, not realizing what it was, but IMO she knew she was not a climber and wouldn't have attempted to climb this.

 

[Seni]

[QUOTE= "It is interesting that Mount Maladeta has been mentioned – interesting in the respect that the intention to go there has never been mentioned by ED in the last remaining days of her hike, whereas Luchon..."

I say, spit it out and say it. Many insinuations made over several posts, we should clarify or refrain!

IMO

 

[RickshawFan]

There was a comment that she bivouacked - slept open - one night, although I wasn't clear about which night.

Yes, this had me really concerned. I did see ED had bivouac-ed a night before this leg of the trip.
Bivouac generally means "without a tent." Basically, you find a nook somewhere when you can't go any further. If you're smart, you have a bivvy bag to crawl into, but otherwise you just plonk your sleeping bag wherever.
This previous bivouac was an example of an experience "outside her comfort level".
Ever since the beginning of the search, I had been thinking ED might not actually have her tent with her, since by this trip she had experience bivouac-ing (and was alive to tell the story) and she had the option of the refuge. She might have thought, "Why take a tent"?

 

[Ninja Bunny]

RSBM In my experience, hiking and climbing [also called mountaineering] are two completely different sports. Sauvguardia can be reached by any hiker by following the established trail, whereas Maladeta has no trail and is only a climbing route, ie you ascend your choice of rock walls using ropes and other equipment.

"Important: all the routes of this mountain are only for mountaineers. The trekkers and hikers must [not] try this peak. The technical material is necessary (crampons and ice-axe in the glaciers and rope in the chimneys [along] with the experience in rock-climbing of [yourself and your] partners) Maladeta, Pico de la : Climbing, Hiking & Mountaineering : SummitPost

All the topo maps and guidebooks would have made this clear, IMO.

Perhaps there was some way she could have accidentally blundered onto the glacier, not realizing what it was, but IMO she knew she was not a climber and wouldn't have attempted to climb this.

Agree, based on her photos it looks like she didn’t have the gear needed to climb Maladeta, plus if she was having problems paying for chia seeds and had to ask strangers for fruit, attempting a climb should have been out of the question.

 

[otto]

I feel it would be extremely naïve to dismiss a mountain accident as being a probable cause of disappearance. Likewise, would it not be equally foolish to dismiss any possibility of third party involvement? ED's B/F and family, while not ruling out the former, certainly express concerns that the latter may be a likely factor. It is interesting that Mount Maladeta has been mentioned – interesting in the respect that the intention to go there has never been mentioned by ED in the last remaining days of her hike, whereas Luchon...

BBM

The comment is : "would it not be equally foolish to dismiss any possibility of third party involvement?"

It would be foolish to imagine scenarios that have no basis in reality. Double negatives serve to bamboozle rather than inform.

 

[otto]

Yes, this had me really concerned. I did see ED had bivouac-ed a night before this leg of the trip.
Bivouac generally means "without a tent." Basically, you find a nook somewhere when you can't go any further. If you're smart, you have a bivvy bag to crawl into, but otherwise you just plonk your sleeping bag wherever.
This previous bivouac was an example of an experience "outside her comfort level".
Ever since the beginning of the search, I had been thinking ED might not actually have her tent with her, since by this trip she had experience bivouac-ing (and was alive to tell the story) and she had the option of the refuge. She might have thought, "Why take a tent"?

Right. She made a comment about being nervous about sleeping open - without a tent, a print in the snow that she thought was a bear print but wasn't, and being okay in the morning.

Was that the morning of the 22nd?

I wonder whether she was sleeping open and messed up with temperatures or location.

 

[otto]

Agree, based on her photos it looks like she didn’t have the gear needed to climb Maladeta, plus if she was having problems paying for chia seeds and had to ask strangers for fruit, attempting a climb should have been out of the question.

Are those photos of her on the days in question, or just random photos?

 

[otto]

As far as I am aware, no witnesses have come forward to say that ED told them she was planning to go to Mount Maladeta. She specifically mentioned that Luchon was on her itinerary. She may well have hiked to Mount Maladeta, I don't know. If people feel happy that she went there, that is fine by me. I favour though that her thoughts were focussed on Luchon.

Luchon/Vanesque hostel refugio, all the same isn't it.

 

[jsoap]

The reference to Maladeta comes from The Sun newspaper, quoting from a discussion with Patrick Lagleize at Disparition d'Esther Dingley dans les Pyrénées - "Dans 99,9 % des cas, c'est un accident" - Sud Radio There is no mention of Maladeta in the sudradio article, only a reference to how long it can take for victims to reappear if they happen to disappear on a glacier.
This looks like typical Sun armchair journalism, where they spent a few minutes looking for the closest glacier - and there's your story.

 

[Normal Norm]

IMO we have to take this story of the Maladeta glacier with a few grains of salt.

Agreed. Doesn't "maladeta" actually mean "cursed"? It looks to me like the media have conjured up this latest hypothesis simply because of the sensationalist headlines they can get out of it.

 

[ZaZara]

Agreed. Doesn't "maladeta" actually mean "cursed"? It looks to me like the media have conjured up this latest hypothesis simply because of the sensationalist headlines they can get out of it.

It almost does. "Cursed"in Spanish is maldito / maldita and this appears to be part of the history of the name.

Wikipedia has an interesting paragraph about the name Maladeta:

The name "Maladeta" comes from the Spanish montes malditos, which means "Damned Mountains". According to some authorities the local name for the massif was Mala hita ("bad rocks" or "bad upper regions"). When French travellers came to the region they translated the name into the French as "Maladette", on the basis that it was cognate with the Italian term Maladetta (feminine for "damned"). Subsequently, the mountain became known as Maladeta, a term that encompasses the entire massif

 

[BobbleBob]

I think think people are over thinking the ‘perhaps I can see you’ comment with the picture of Luchon. If I was in her shoes on the day I’d say the same thing, not that DC (or anyone else for that matter) was in Luchon and going to meet her, but more that it’s a clear view into France and DC is in France. If she wanted to communicate with someone why be cryptic like that and not text/WhatsApp in stead for convenience?

As for staying in a bivvy for the night, I’ve see that both ED and DC have bivvied while doing the Via Alpina so it wouldn’t something new to her. So it’s something that ED has done before and, as mentioned about by another poster, if she had planned to just bivvy in the refuges then perhaps she didn’t bring the tent. If she didn’t bring her tent I would have expected that LE would have made reference to this fact as it would explain why there was no sign of a tent during the their and SAR’s search of the area.

As for a 3rd party being involved, my gut says zero probability of that, at least not up the mountain. If she came back down with the intention of returning to the van then maybe, but still in my opinion highly unlikely especially with the lack of people about due to time of year and Covid-19

 

[Grouse]

I think think people are over thinking the ‘perhaps I can see you’ comment with the picture of Luchon. If I was in her shoes on the day I’d say the same thing, not that DC (or anyone else for that matter) was in Luchon and going to meet her, but more that it’s a clear view into France and DC is in France. If she wanted to communicate with someone why be cryptic like that and not text/WhatsApp in stead for convenience?

I made a the same point previously. It's crystal clear the comment was made to Dan - there's a bit of a clue in there - she preceded the comment with @dancolegate Login • Instagram

If she didn’t bring her tent I would have expected that LE would have made reference to this fact as it would explain why there was no sign of a tent during the their and SAR’s search of the area.

Yes, and I think the point's been made by someone on here that she must have had the tent due to the references that SAR looked for it. Dan would have known whether she took it, and if she hadn't it they'd have known anyway as it would have been found in the campervan. That doesn't rule out the fact she could have decided to use a bivvy bag or tarp, but if it got too cold she would have had her tent to fall back on.

 

[Grouse]

Useful maps ZaZara posted way back. Mainly to give me some clarity, but thought they might be generally useful. La Bursa was mentioned as a possible night stay, but it's so near Benasque it seems hardly worth it. Would continuing down be dangerous in the dark?

Sorry but I think the second map is misleading (in fact that's too generous it's just plain wrong). At location 3 she "descends the mountain with another hiker" and then it has the arrow going straight from 3 to 4 , when we know that on 19th she decided to take a lift back to the campervan in Benasque. Then it says "unknown hiker takes her photograph" on 21-22. We know that's also plain wrong it was the 19th. Really lazy reporting and it annoys me that they didn't just look properly at the IG posts/dates etc.

We know from Dan's statement via LBT she spent the 20th at the campervan, before setting out again on 21st ("the snail is on the move again") and ascending Sauvegard, and posting on IG for the last time ever. Do we have anything else on her route/plans between that and the sighting by Marti Vigo del Arco on 22nd?

ETA: the "Maybe I can see you" in the present tense makes me think she made the post from the summit. So it seems odd that she never posted again that evening, which seems to have been her usual habit.

 

[stmarysmead]

I’m confused. She reached the peak on the 21st and we do not know...or it has not been disclosed where she spent the night.

Did she also have plans THAT day when she ascended the peak the first time...to go on to the Refuge just an hour away and changed her mind? She was close to it that day as well.

Wherever she spent that night, she DID have a plan to travel on to the Refuge the second night. But, am I correct in thinking that she stayed wherever she was quite a long period of time. Was she on some other side trek? Are there options off of the main trail? She seems reluctant to spend much time at the Refuge...understandable since it has no services or WIFI...though the immediate area is gorgeous.

Where was she until she decided, maybe to kill time...to repeat her trip to the summit again?

Maybe, after her last contact, she returned to wherever she successfully sheltered the night before. If she had some misgivings about the Refuge...perhaps she had made the same decision the night before? I would have thought in her excitement that she would have shared details with Dan or her Dad about that night before.

 

[patCee]

2nd IMAGE ABOVE IS INCORRECT SO IGNORE
Useful maps ZaZara posted way back. Mainly to give me some clarity, but thought they might be generally useful. La Bursa was mentioned as a possible night stay, a few hours from Benasque. Would continuing down be too dangerous in the dark?

 

[RickshawFan]

Right. She made a comment about being nervous about sleeping open - without a tent, a print in the snow that she thought was a bear print but wasn't, and being okay in the morning.

Was that the morning of the 22nd?

I wonder whether she was sleeping open and messed up with temperatures or location.

Her sleeping bag would have got wet*, and she has a down sleeping bag. The sleeping bag is safety equipment.

If your sleeping bag gets wet, the only safe option is to hike out immediately.

The bag can get wet from a variety of weather factors, including dew, rolling around on damp rocks, general damp in the valley, and moisture moving up and down the mountain face at dawn and dusk.

 

[BobbleBob]

There’s a lot of ED’s time that’s missing, or not too publicly released.

I know from my own experience that if you have to wait around in a refuge for most of the day you’ll get bored very fast if you can’t do anything or have someone to chat with (I had someone with me, and it was summer so not too bad but time still dragged, and there’s only so much tea you can drink!).

Going by what ED & DC have said before on YouTube she’s an energiser bunny that can’t stop moving and she feels active recovery works best for her vs siting around. Did she decide to just walk about a bit after dark, or perhaps head back to where she camped/slept the previous time vs the refuge as stmarysmead mentions above?

Also DC and ED’s family say that she’s very open about what’s she’s doing, but how open is she really? Would she have been happy to go quiet for the time it’s expected based on her plan and not raise any issues she’s having?

 

[Sjm_qc]

Right. She made a comment about being nervous about sleeping open - without a tent, a print in the snow that she thought was a bear print but wasn't, and being okay in the morning.

Was that the morning of the 22nd?

I wonder whether she was sleeping open and messed up with temperatures or location.

BBM: no. It was prior to the 19th November.

Her “is this a bear print?” query was posted November 17th on IG.

Her reference to “bivvying” (again on IG) was November 14th.