Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[Satchie]

There’s a lot of ED’s time that’s missing, or not too publicly released... Would she have been happy to go quiet for the time it’s expected based on her plan and not raise any issues she’s having?

RSBM

Based on her social media posts about her adventure ending on the 19th, it does seem she was working on challenging herself to do things on her own. However, there is challenge and then there is danger, it's a fine line, do we always know the difference ourselves, much less be able to predict whether other people know it?

I just really wish Esther had successfully met the challenge she'd set for herself, and gotten back to the camper and was looking forward to some kind of Christmas, like the rest of us.

 

[sundaaaay]

I see it as unlikely she would have attempted to climb Maladeta without telling anyone her change of plan. If this was her plan, she likely would have descended on the Southern side, towards Refugio Plan d´Están and ascended Maladeta the following day. If she did this, other people would have seen her.

Surely not the busiest time for hikers (also due to Covid) but I still believe if she continued to walk any marked trails the following day, she likely would have passed more hikers.

It's a fairly narrow window between the last contact when she sent a selfie at 4pm, and when the sun sets at 5.30pm when it becomes too dark to continue walking. She may have decided to skip the refuge, instead camping outside, which could explain why she asked for fruit, it being for the following morning perhaps. But if she died in her tent, from hypothermia, a colourful tent would likely have been spotted, unless it is currently covered in snow.

This makes me think whatever happened, happened just off the trails or very close to Pic de Sauvegarde, where she may have decided a more challenging descent, perhaps to burn more time before arriving at the refuge just as night started falling, and had an accident along the way. I know the area has already been searched, but realistically it's an extremely rugged terrain.

 

[RickshawFan]

It's a fairly narrow window between the last contact when she sent a selfie at 4pm, and when the sun sets at 5.30pm when it becomes too dark to continue walking. She may have decided to skip the refuge, instead camping outside, which could explain why she asked for fruit, it being for the following morning perhaps. But if she died in her tent, from hypothermia, a colourful tent would likely have been spotted, unless it is currently covered in snow.

Snipped for focus.

It would have been dark much earlier in the valley. She might not have calculated for this.
Fruit would be helpful if you're short of water. ED might have used hers all up on the summit trip. She may also have just found out that the refuge didn't have any water.

It would be very odd to camp outside, given there's a refuge. You'd be a lot warmer in the refuge, you'd have a chance to build a fire, you could putter around while waiting for bedtime, you'd have had a chair and a table, plus you'd have a flat surface on which to lie down. If you had a tent, you could even pitch it inside the refuge. Also, there would have been a clear path to the privy.

 

[stmarysmead]

Snipped for focus.

It would have been dark much earlier in the valley. She might not have calculated for this.
Fruit would be helpful if you're short of water. ED might have used hers all up on the summit trip. She may also have just found out that the refuge didn't have any water.

It would be very odd to camp outside, given there's a refuge. You'd be a lot warmer in the refuge, you'd have a chance to build a fire, you could putter around while waiting for bedtime, you'd have had a chair and a table, plus you'd have a flat surface on which to lie down. If you had a tent, you could even pitch it inside the refuge. Also, there would have been a clear path to the privy.

How do reservations work during the unmanned season? Did she reserve and pay ahead? If not, how would payment be handled?

No wifi to pay online. No one to take cash. Is it just the honor system?

 

[Deleted member 277705]

Snipped for focus:

If she wanted to communicate with someone why be cryptic like that and not text/WhatsApp in stead for convenience?

Oh, there is perfectly good reason why cryptic and subliminal messaging would be used on a public media platform.

 

[Vaccine]

How do reservations work during the unmanned season? Did she reserve and pay ahead? If not, how would payment be handled?

No wifi to pay online. No one to take cash. Is it just the honor system?

I assumed that the website would be run from a centre in the valley and that you could book online in the off season before making an ascent. But I guess it could be an honour system for cash if you don't book ahead.

 

[BobbleBob]

Snipped for focus:

Oh, there is perfectly good reason why cryptic and subliminal messaging would be used on a public media platform.

I agree, there are many reasons, but in relation to ED I can’t see them being all that probable. If she’s speaking to DC then a message on WhatsApp would work perfectly, if it’s to someone else then once again a text or WhatsApp message (or any other messaging app) would be easier and not public.

I just can’t see the comment being directed to anyone but DC, and directed to him at the farm house vs him being in Luchon.

 

[Satchie]

Snipped for focus:

Oh, there is perfectly good reason why cryptic and subliminal messaging would be used on a public media platform.

I think you forgot to finish your post. Please explain what that good reason is.

 

[Deleted member 277705]

Snipped for focus

It would be foolish to imagine scenarios that have no basis in reality.

Exactly, that's why LE are not ruling out third party involvement.

 

[Deleted member 277705]

I think you forgot to finish your post. Please explain what that good reason is.

I didn't forget to finish the post, but to give the good reason, as you request, for ED exchanging cryptic and subliminal messaging so that the public don't realise what is going on:
It is one thing announcing travel plans in private to a stranger in a different country to that to which you are seeking to travel in. Quite another thing to publicly announce on social media sites plans to travel through a country whose citizens abide by – and have a strict adherence to – their country's Covid lockdown regulations.
Did you see the public vitriol, condemnation, outrage & criticism that followed SAR & LE appeals seeking help to locate her ? Luchon could well hold the key to solving this disappearance.

 

[RedHaus]

https://www.businessinsider.com/tony-hsiehs-june-psychotic-break-was-a-turning-point-2020-12

This makes me think whatever happened, happened just off the trails or very close to Pic de Sauvegarde, where she may have decided a more challenging descent, perhaps to burn more time before arriving at the refuge just as night started falling, and had an accident along the way.

snipped for focus

You know, the more we beat around this small bush of critical data I have to take the LE's word that ED did not make it to Refuge de Vanesque on 11/22. Search dogs may not have picked up her scent there and that is why they seem confident with that fact. Further, IMO, I suspect ED did not cross into France at the Port de Vanesque. Rather, she headed down towards Banasque from Pic de Sauvegarde starting at about 4pm on 11/22, after her interaction with DC. We may never know why, but I think she scrapped her plan to do the France loop she had planned until 11/25. Accidentally losing her cell phone is just one of myriad reasons she might decide to scrap her plans.

I like your postulation that if ED was still alive and moving around in the area during the day on 11/23 (e.g. staying at another refuge or near a parking lot, climbing the glacier - highly unlikely, finishing her decent to Banasque, heading back up to Pic de Sauvegarde or Port de Vanesque, etc.), she'd likely have been seen. So on the the evening / night of 11/22 when no one else was left on the slopes, IMO, ED disappeared or perished between the summit of Pic de Sauvegarde and the town of Banasque that night. Disappearing can take many forms as can causes of death. But that limited time period and limited geographic area ties to what DC and the ED were focused on from the start (I believe).

So that said, my mind is now starting to grapple with the mystery about what Esther did between her early afternoon summit to Pic de Sauvegarde on 11/21 and her late afternoon ascent towards the same summit on 11/22. I know she was seen doing yoga by her van in Banasque by that school teacher who helped her with the Chia Seed incident. But I think that was 11/20 or 11/21 (perhaps in the morning?). I had always thought she had returned to her van on 11/21, but now I wonder - based on other posters' ideas - if ED may have been hiking in the mountains for two days. Knowing where she stayed the night on 11/21 and where she had been (i.e. who she might have encountered) seems key, IMO.

What do others think ED was doing between the afternoon of 11/21 and the afternoon of 11/22? And does it matter?

I may be missing something(s) obvious so I'd appreciate the course correction.

 

[Deleted member 277705]

RSBM
I just really wish Esther had successfully met the challenge she'd set for herself, and gotten back to the camper and was looking forward to some kind of Christmas, like the rest of us.

Maybe she did get back to the camper.

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

No clues, no leads … now winter snows could cover last trace of missing hiker

 

[CoverMeCagney]

What do others think ED was doing between the afternoon of 11/21 and the afternoon of 11/22? And does it matter?

I may be missing something(s) obvious so I'd appreciate the course correction.

I don’t know what Esther was doing on the afternoon of 21st and overnight. It’s either totally relevant or totally not!

I still think it’s possible she stayed somewhere to the south of Sauvegarde near the road. But why didn’t she communicate that with Dan just an hour or so earlier?

Did something happen between 4pm and sunset that changed her mind? Lost her phone, felt threatened, weather turned, something else?

Did she decide to stay somewhere she’d stayed before? In which case the forensics would be muddied.

Does anyone have to hand exactly when it was that Esther went to the shop, and when she was seen doing yoga by the van?

 

[Sjm_qc]

No clues, no leads … now winter snows could cover last trace of missing hiker

That’s a half-decent article/summary, if one takes the time to read it carefully all the way through (past the regurgitation of speculation).


“Another possible explanation for Dingley’s disappearance – that she was the victim of a crime – has no evidence to support it.”

 

[Sjm_qc]

I don’t know what Esther was doing on the afternoon of 21st and overnight. It’s either totally relevant or totally not!

I still think it’s possible she stayed somewhere to the south of Sauvegarde near the road. But why didn’t she communicate that with Dan just an hour or so earlier?

Did something happen between 4pm and sunset that changed her mind? Lost her phone, felt threatened, weather turned, something else?

Did she decide to stay somewhere she’d stayed before? In which case the forensics would be muddied.

Does anyone have to hand exactly when it was that Esther went to the shop, and when she was seen doing yoga by the van?

BBM for focus:

The shop CCTV, from the DM, is stated to be on the 19th November (no time referenced). X-referencing with Esther’s own postings on IG she accepted a lift back to her camper in Benasque sometime around 2pm that day, after what appears to be a couple of days hiking (I.e. not in Benasque/at the camper van).

In the same DM article, the witness who translated for her at the store is said to have seen her “a couple of days later”, doing yoga.

According to the LBT press release on behalf of the family, she spent the 20th November at the camper and set out on her hike on the 21st.

 

[Sjm_qc]

How do reservations work during the unmanned season? Did she reserve and pay ahead? If not, how would payment be handled?

No wifi to pay online. No one to take cash. Is it just the honor system?

Reservations in the unmanned season work via an “honour system” of sorts, in that you reserve and pay online, by email, or by phone using a bank card.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

BBM for focus:

The shop CCTV, from the DM, is stated to be on the 19th November (no time referenced). X-referencing with Esther’s own postings on IG she accepted a lift back to her camper in Benasque sometime around 2pm that day, after what appears to be a couple of days hiking (I.e. not in Benasque/at the camper van).

In the same DM article, the witness who translated for her at the store is said to have seen her “a couple of days later”, doing yoga.

According to the LBT press release on behalf of the family, she spent the 20th November at the camper and set out on her hike on the 21st.

Great, thanks so much. It’d be useful to know exactly what time she was last seen in Benasque on 21st. Did she set off for a few days hiking that day, or did she stay at the campervan...

 

[Vaccine]

Sadly I think Esther is still in the mountains somewhere and will be found in a few years time. She probably fell badly either down the hillside or met with misadventure in water with or without an injury. With poor reception or potentially not being able to reach her phone she had no lifeline to call for help.

I think the rescue teams were doubtful that she could be found because the terrain is very open and there's little afforestation so they thought she would be spottable after such an intensive search. But that doesn't allow for her being in water where its very possible she would leave no trace. And as many people have commented here its often the case that people are found very close to the search sight for instance in deserts etc some time later.

It is small comfort for those that love her but I think she died doing something that clearly gave her great joy and freedom. But being on your own out in wild terrain always has inherent risks, particularly with less people around due to covid and when changes in weather and visibility can happen fast in the mountains. Small accidents can become big ones fast.

I was moved by this story because I came across the BBC News item about Esther and Dan's blogs and lifestyle only a week before she disappeared and I was touched by their story. Dan will now face some very challenging decisions about his life and where he goes from here. JMO

 

[Kaykedi]

BBM for focus:

The shop CCTV, from the DM, is stated to be on the 19th November (no time referenced). X-referencing with Esther’s own postings on IG she accepted a lift back to her camper in Benasque sometime around 2pm that day, after what appears to be a couple of days hiking (I.e. not in Benasque/at the camper van).

In the same DM article, the witness who translated for her at the store is said to have seen her “a couple of days later”, doing yoga.

According to the LBT press release on behalf of the family, she spent the 20th November at the camper and set out on her hike on the 21st.

Thank you for this