Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[Spartygirl]

Has anyone checked out obituaries in Delphi ,during the week after the murders?There may be a clue in one , as to the deceased work or loved activities.Don’t post any theories or names ,on here, but I would love to hear thoughts through PM’s.

I did that at the beginning, back in 2017
I searched that and multiple funerals, and many, many cemeteries.

 

[Ravenmoon]

This is a big one for me. I'd love to see, for example, the search warrant that was served at Bicycle Bridge Rd. I know these people are cleared (one of the very few that have been) so I'm not in any way suggesting their involvement, but I'd still love to know if LE thought at that time that they could find something a perpetrator removed from the crime scene.

My personal curiosity wants to know what the two or possibly three "signatures" were but I think the information that would have the best chance of furthering the case if released is everything LE knows about the vehicle parked at the CPS building on the day of the crime. That is, assuming they've concluded it's related which is a big "if."

The second thing, for me, would be information about the car as well. I can't think for a moment that it is somehow not relevant since they chose to bring it up 3 years after the crime.

I also love the idea of releasing the warrant...not to incriminate those at the residence, as you also added, but to know what , specifically they were looking for.

Just out of curiosity, do you know if those warrants are sealed?
If so, I wonder if they are sealed indefinitely?
How does that work?
I thought after "x" amount of time they were supposed to be a matter of public record.
Not just these search warrants..I thought all search warrants were meant to be public record.
I am hoping that someone here has knowledge of this ?

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[girlfriday]

If you could ask ONE thing to be released to the public that could truly help the investigation, what would you ask?

I would want to know WHAT, if anything, was missing from the CS?

In my mind, if the killer took possession of one of the girls items, there is a HUGE possibility that someone would remember seeing said item.

I dunno.. Thoughts?

AMOO JMO MOO

I would ask “Where is the black and bright pink winter coat that AW had with her on February 12, 2017?”

It’s something I’ve wondered about, since I first took an interest in this case. Based on other information I’ve gleaned from a few of the interviews, provided by the families, I am left to wonder if THAT COAT was ever accounted for.

JMHO

 

[St. Anthony2017]

I would ask “Where is the black and bright pink winter coat that AW had with her on February 12, 2017?”

It’s something I’ve wondered about, since I first took an interest in this case. Based on other information I’ve gleaned from a few of the interviews, provided by the families, I am left to wonder if THAT COAT was ever accounted for.

JMHO

I would like to ask if a note or any carvings on a tree were left at the crime scene.

 

[mom2chloe]

I would ask “Where is the black and bright pink winter coat that AW had with her on February 12, 2017?”

It’s something I’ve wondered about, since I first took an interest in this case. Based on other information I’ve gleaned from a few of the interviews, provided by the families, I am left to wonder if THAT COAT was ever accounted for.

JMHO

This is the first I’ve heard of this! Do you have a link, please? All I recall is Kelsi saying she insisted the girls wear her sweatshirts that were within her car because she too felt they were underdressed. When the temps begin to drop within the timeframe the girls were at the bridge it goes quickly and an additional coat would have been handy but perhaps cumbersome while traversing the trails. IMO

 

[Yemelyan]

The second thing, for me, would be information about the car as well. I can't think for a moment that it is somehow not relevant since they chose to bring it up 3 years after the crime.

I also love the idea of releasing the warrant...not to incriminate those at the residence, as you also added, but to know what , specifically they were looking for.

Just out of curiosity, do you know if those warrants are sealed?
If so, I wonder if they are sealed indefinitely?
How does that work?
I thought after "x" amount of time they were supposed to be a matter of public record.
Not just these search warrants..I thought all search warrants were meant to be public record.
I am hoping that someone here has knowledge of this ?

AMOO JMO MOO

As far as I know, the warrants are sealed right now but I don't know if or when those court orders expire. I'd also be curious to know.

Edited to add...in the Lauren Spierer case (also Indiana) a judge ruled that the search warrants would remain sealed until such a time as criminal charges were filed in the case. So this is what might happen in Delphi as well. Lauren Spierer search warrants will remain sealed, judge says

 

[margarita25]

Bump for 2021

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

 

[Dotrat]

If you could ask ONE thing to be released to the public that could truly help the investigation, what would you ask?

I would want to know WHAT, if anything, was missing from the CS?

In my mind, if the killer took possession of one of the girls items, there is a HUGE possibility that someone would remember seeing said item.

I dunno.. Thoughts?

AMOO JMO MOO

I would want additional audio/video released

 

[girlfriday]

This is the first I’ve heard of this! Do you have a link, please? All I recall is Kelsi saying she insisted the girls wear her sweatshirts that were within her car because she too felt they were underdressed. When the temps begin to drop within the timeframe the girls were at the bridge it goes quickly and an additional coat would have been handy but perhaps cumbersome while traversing the trails. IMO

Here is a photo of AW’s black and bright pink coat, draped on the light standard, in the blurred area outside of right frame ( there is a copy of this photo, that is not blurred).
Shown at about the 1 minute 40 second mark of this interview with AW’s Grandfather:
Abby Williams' Grandfather: "I still don't know how to live with out her"

In this interview with JR, AW’s Mom talks about AW’s jacket.
At about the 10 minute mark:

In this interview with the Grandparents of AW, her belongings are discussed.
At about the 8 minutes 12 seconds mark:

In this interview, with our very own Tricia of Webseluths, BP mentions AW’s jacket.
At about the 4 minute 15 second mark:

 

[DeDee]

This is a big one for me. I'd love to see, for example, the search warrant that was served at Bicycle Bridge Rd. I know these people are cleared (one of the very few that have been) so I'm not in any way suggesting their involvement, but I'd still love to know if LE thought at that time that they could find something a perpetrator removed from the crime scene.

My personal curiosity wants to know what the two or possibly three "signatures" were but I think the information that would have the best chance of furthering the case if released is everything LE knows about the vehicle parked at the CPS building on the day of the crime. That is, assuming they've concluded it's related which is a big "if."

LM was excluded as a possible suspect following the West BB Rd search warrant. There was likely a tip received that he'd been on the trails that same day. LE took several bags of evidence while searching the shed at the address, according to Mainstream video.

One signature would be the heinous crimes were committed in broad daylight. Wouldn't it? Perhaps the precious girls were posed in a particular manner. Heartbreaking to consider, really.

Odd thing for the CPS bldg to be torn down while suspecting a dangerous killer may have parked a vehicle in that location.

 

[Stargalaxy1066]

Bolded by me.

I do think he guessed they were young, I just feel that he may have thought upon seeing them that they could be in the age range of older teens instead of 13-ish. Just wanted to clarify that point as I realized my post could have read as if I was saying he might have mistaken them for women in their 30s, for example, which I didn't communicate well.

I think their clothes and demeanor probably marked them as young, but from a distance of several yards or without a good look at their faces it would have been challenging to know if both of them were 13-14 or more like 17-18.

Two 17 year olds who are
murdered would still be juvenile victims but probably would not be thought of as "two little girls," emphasis on little. I think that phrase by Carter was said to get under the skin of either a perpetrator or person sitting on information about a possible perpetrator.

Bolded by me.

I do think he guessed they were young, I just feel that he may have thought upon seeing them that they could be in the age range of older teens instead of 13-ish. Just wanted to clarify that point as I realized my post could have read as if I was saying he might have mistaken them for women in their 30s, for example, which I didn't communicate well.

I think their clothes and demeanor probably marked them as young, but from a distance of several yards or without a good look at their faces it would have been challenging to know if both of them were 13-14 or more like 17-18.

Two 17 year olds who are
murdered would still be juvenile victims but probably would not be thought of as "two little girls," emphasis on little. I think that phrase by Carter was said to get under the skin of either a perpetrator or person sitting on information about a possible perpetrator.

When I was 11-12, I was frequently mistaken for being in the 18-22 y/o age range. People would be really surprised when I said I was 11.

 

[DeDee]

I'm tending to one-man-crime, when I think about the killing itself. But if the killer had a very close someone - like a brother for example - as an accomplice, whom he trusted 100%, then I can imagine a two-men-crime.
If there were two of them, my only question to myself would be: How comes, that ie. a man, who has freetime like he wants or like his schedule would allow, can be a "crime-working-team" (evil) with someone, who is maybe employed?

In my current theory, if BG is speaking to his "Guys" then there are 3 of them. One of them may be a business owner, in Carroll County or bordering counties, which would surprise locals since he may have been inside/outside working for them at their homes.

Never considered their relationship to one another as being brothers, perhaps even cousins. Hence, I'll note that possibility, Germany. TY.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I would ask “Where is the black and bright pink winter coat that AW had with her on February 12, 2017?”

It’s something I’ve wondered about, since I first took an interest in this case. Based on other information I’ve gleaned from a few of the interviews, provided by the families, I am left to wonder if THAT COAT was ever accounted for.

JMHO

What black and pink coat? And if she had it on Feb 12th why would that be important to what happened the next day?

 

[girlfriday]

What black and pink coat? And if she had it on Feb 12th why would that be important to what happened the next day?

See my post #1549

 

[news buff]

See my post #1549

Saw your post. Listened. Am still not understanding why it matters. Can you please explain?

 

[girlfriday]

Saw your post. Listened. Am still not understanding why it matters. Can you please explain?

Due to the emphasis on sweatshirts/jackets (coats), in this case, it’s a logical avenue of inquiry, in my opinion.

 

[news buff]

Due to the emphasis on sweatshirts/jackets (coats), in this case, it’s a logical avenue of inquiry, in my opinion.

Thank you.

 

[sandy_80]

If you could ask ONE thing to be released to the public that could truly help the investigation, what would you ask?

I would want to know WHAT, if anything, was missing from the CS?

In my mind, if the killer took possession of one of the girls items, there is a HUGE possibility that someone would remember seeing said item.

I dunno.. Thoughts?

AMOO JMO MOO

there was a long time before they were found so a possibility of crime scene contamination is never far off ..also the search team found the girls.. so why not any random moron would have picked up items ..

 

[IceIce9]

I would ask “Where is the black and bright pink winter coat that AW had with her on February 12, 2017?”

It’s something I’ve wondered about, since I first took an interest in this case. Based on other information I’ve gleaned from a few of the interviews, provided by the families, I am left to wonder if THAT COAT was ever accounted for.

JMHO

If she had a winter coat with her, why did Kelsi insist that she take a sweatshirt when she dropped them off?

 

[Yemelyan]

Due to the emphasis on sweatshirts/jackets (coats), in this case, it’s a logical avenue of inquiry, in my opinion.

I listened to all of the links you provided and I still don't understand why the location of the coat matters. Why can't you spell out why it's important? Is it because you have a theory that isn't victim or family friendly?

Two family members who saw the girls before they headed to the trails agree that neither had a coat. The official missing descriptions of them do not mention coats, do they?

The public has never been told what items Abby left at the German/Patty household that day when they left, that she intended to come back to, or were given back to her family after her death. This inventory likely would not be any of the public's business. Could her winter coat have been among those items?

Normally I can figure out what other posters are hinting about but the significance of the coat - which we were told she wasn't wearing - has me scratching my head.