Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[otto]

I think what the guide, Patrick Lagleize, is saying is that when people disappear in glaciers, it can take 20-30 years for the body to surface. When people disappear on the mountains, it can take 5 years or until someone comes across the body.

"This is not the first disappearance in the sector of the Pyrenees, rescuers estimate that it will take three to five years to find the body ...

In the Pyrenees, bodies are generally found "within five years." Patrick Lagleize, he remains confident: the body of Esther Dingley will one day be found.

As much in the glaciers of the Alps, people who disappear are at the bottom of the glacier and reappear when the glacier goes down, it can last twenty to thirty years, as much in the Pyrenees, we end up finding the body within five years because there is someone who happened to pass by there."
​

Disparition d'Esther Dingley dans les Pyrénées - "Dans 99,9 % des cas, c'est un accident" - Sud Radio

 

[Andreee]

Scary News About the Danger of Chia Seeds I'm really sorry if posted before. If you swig chia seeds with water they can set in your throat.

Interesting. How utterly unexpected it would be if E.D. succumbed to chia seeds as the primary cause of being missing.

 

[ZaZara]

If you already know this, I apologize for posting, but IMO it may come in handy for those who maybe haven't seen this ~ I know it took me a while to discover:

The WS Search Engine!

In the right upper corner of the website, in the black strip between your name | inbox | alerts on top and your avatar underneath, there is this small white window with Search ... written in very light grey. And easily overlooked IMO.

You write there what you are looking for, for instance Maladeta, you tag Search this thread only and off you go. You'll get all the results on (a) separate page or pages.

If you want to search thread 1 too, you'll either have to go there and start the search engine all over OR you tag Search this forum only . This may yield results of other threads too of course.




BTW the Search Engine has a different lay out when you are not on a specific thread.

 

[RickshawFan]

If you already know this, I apologize for posting, but IMO it may come in handy for those who maybe haven't seen this ~ I know it took me a while to discover:

The WS Search Engine!

In the right upper corner of the website, in the black strip between your name | inbox | alerts on top and your avatar underneath, there is this small white window with Search ... written in very light grey. And easily overlooked IMO.

You write there what you are looking for, for instance Maladeta, you tag Search this thread only and off you go. You'll get all the results on (a) separate page or pages.

If you want to search thread 1 too, you'll either have to go there and start the search engine all over OR you tag Search this forum only . This may yield results of other threads too of course.

View attachment 277038


BTW the Search Engine has a different lay out when you are not on a specific thread.

There's that, and if you want to find out if there's a certain topic going in WS, you can just Google a topic and put Websleuths among the search words. Then you've got Google's engine behind your search. WS is so convoluted, I often resort to this.

 

[otto]

Was the Dec 17 article about the Maladeta glacier already discussed? If so, apologies. I missed that part of the discussion and only came across the Dec 17 article last night. I took it seriously because the quoted guide is respected.

 

[otto]

Now we know that at least one UK tabloid took words out of context, and misconstrued "20-30 years to recover body in glacier crevice" and "3-5 years to recover body in mountain accident."

The guide did not say that Esther was in the Maladeta glacier, but compared the length of time to recover a body between glacier slip and mountain fall. What is consistent is that the guide is 99% certain that Esther had an accident and will be found within 5 years.

 

[Seni]

I got a bit lost in the "hospice" talk. As far as I understand there is one with a big car park on Spanish side where you can leave your car and start to walk up. This was discussed some threads ago, why did Esther not leave her van there? How did she get to starting point of walk?

The French "hospice" is on other side of mountain. ED did not have a hope in hell of reaching it if her times were correctly reported by the Skier.

Things that do not make sense:

Lack of bright clothing or accessories

The yoga pants

The request for fruit.

Delay in naming her as missing.

She was travelling under extreme conditions and with daily reporting.

As Rickshaw has pointed out numerous times, experience does not mean expertise. This was a hike that took place under restricted conditions and at a time of year not recommended.

Seems a little crazy that we are ascertaining now which refuges might have been open.

That would surely have been part of the plan.

 

[otto]

The only remaining question is where - where might she have had an accident?

She was last seen 30 minutes from the Port de Venasque, one hour from Pic de Sauvegarde and one hour from the Refuge de Venasque. She arrived at the Port de Venasque around 3:30 PM.

She posted a photo at 4 PM posing at the top of the Sauveguarde summit, but there are questions about whether she was there, or whether she just posted a photo at 4 PM suggesting that she was there.

Suppose she went directly to the Port de Venasque after asking the Olympian for fruit, arrived at 3:30 PM, hiked to the refuge, arrived at 4 PM, and then posted the photo from the summit? But, there's no wifi at the Refuge de Venasque, which is where she should be at 4 PM. That couldn't have happened.

I think that mean she actually was at the Pic de Sauvegarde at 4 PM on Nov 22 to use the wifi. She arrived at Port de Venasque at 4:30 PM, had a 30 minute trek in the night shadows of the mountain to the Refuge de Venasque arriving at 5:00 PM. There would be 30 minutes to sunset.

Reports are that she didn't make it to the refuge. I suppose that means she fell off the mountain near the Port de Venasque in Spain - this is speculation regarding more dangerous parts of the hike. Maybe near the cable, maybe along the lake path, maybe she leaned over too far?

 

[otto]

<snipped>

She was travelling under extreme conditions and with daily reporting.

As Rickshaw has pointed out numerous times, experience does not mean expertise. This was a hike that took place under restricted conditions and at a time of year not recommended.

Seems a little crazy that we are ascertaining now which refuges might have been open.

That would surely have been part of the plan.

BBM

Covid travel restrictions and seasonal closures were in place. French refuge and hospice were closed, yet she was trekking there having recently validated her bivouacking experience.

Regarding van location, I understand the Hospice de Benasque is not an overnight option.

 

[otto]

Given the absence of wifi options at the refuge, I think we can rule out that she was at the refuge at 4 PM. To send the Pic de Sauvegarde photo at 4 PM, could she be no farther than the Port de Venasque?

We need a cell tower radius map for the area. What is the wifi range from the Sauvegarde summit? It doesn't extend to the refuge.

 

[Seni]

Regarding van location, I understand the Hospice de Benasque is not an overnight option.

It was an option at the time I believe. Don't want to argue with you, but I think Za and I found articles. The whole logic being why didn´t she take the van up there and who would have facilitated the lift, especially for the second hike.

Of course she may have walked it, but starting in the afternoon could have been asking for trouble.

 

[RickshawFan]

I got a bit lost in the "hospice" talk. As far as I understand there is one with a big car park on Spanish side where you can leave your car and start to walk up. This was discussed some threads ago, why did Esther not leave her van there? How did she get to starting point of walk?

Snipped for focus.

Go upthread to last night. Several of us were working on a concept where she changed her mind about going to the Refuge (she didn't want to hang out there) and decided to go to the Hospice instead, perhaps not realizing it was closed.
That's how the Hospice came into play. The discussion was very coherent and sensible, if I say so myself.

 

[Seni]

Snipped for focus.

Go upthread to last night. Several of us were working on a concept where she changed her mind about going to the Refuge (she didn't want to hang out there) and decided to go to the Hospice instead, perhaps not realizing it was closed.
That's how the Hospice came into play. The discussion was very coherent and sensible, if I say so myself.

Will do, don't have much time, but always very interested in your posts and experience. Fabulous !

 

[RickshawFan]

As Rickshaw has pointed out numerous times, experience does not mean expertise. This was a hike that took place under restricted conditions and at a time of year not recommended.

Snipped for focus...

Despite my analysis, I really don't think ED did anything that reflects not being prepared. (At least pretty much prepared.), Overall, I don't have an issue with that aspect. I think she made a mistake maybe in her decision-making or she had an accident. These things happen to the most prepared and experienced of us.

 

[RickshawFan]

Regarding van location, I understand the Hospice de Benasque is not an overnight option.

It was an option at the time I believe. Don't want to argue with you, but I think Za and I found articles. The whole logic being why didn´t she take the van up there and who would have facilitated the lift, especially for the second hike.

Of course she may have walked it, but starting in the afternoon could have been asking for trouble.

We weren't thinking of her initiating the hike at the Hospice and having to park there, but rather trying to hike there from the Port in lieu of overnighting at the Refuge. Her campervan wouldn't need a different parking spot.

 

[RickshawFan]

1. I'm not sure how this would work.... ED could have been out of range when she posted her last message. The moment she went in range, it posted. This could throw up a timeline of where she was when.
2. I'm guessing at some point she wanted to use the phone, but couldn't get reception, so she turned it off. She might have assumed she wouldn't get reception anywhere she was going to be soon, so why waste battery?
3. #2 means she would have tried to make a call somewhere. What do we think that call was about? I'm thinking she got to the trail sign and wanted to find out if the Hospice was open. She hadn't thought of going there before, but made a snap decision 'cos she didn't want to hang out at the Refuge.
4. #2 could also have propelled her to the likelihood of internet (e.g. at the Hospice), simply because she needed company. Maybe that need caused her to make a risky decision.

 

[Seni]

We weren't thinking of her initiating the hike at the Hospice and having to park there, but rather trying to hike there from the Port in lieu of overnighting at the Refuge. Her campervan wouldn't need a different parking spot.

Ok, sorry probably my fault that we are going around in circles. Where did ED leave her van? Before heading up Spanish trail via Spanish hospice where people traditionally start their trek and leave their cars?

 

[RickshawFan]

Ok, sorry probably my fault that we are going around in circles. Where did ED leave her van? Before heading up Spanish trail via Spanish hospice where people traditionally start their trek and leave their cars?

She left the van in town. Skip the Hospice word: it’s a facility in France reachable from the trail ED was already on. It wasn’t her original intent to go there.

 

[Seni]

She left the van in town. Skip the Hospice word: it’s a facility in France reachable from the trail ED was already on. It wasn’t her original intent to go there.

OK. Sorry for my confusion.

 

[RickshawFan]

So, I’ll put myself in ED’s shoes and spell out the scenario I described above.

At some point during the afternoon, I write a post but I’m offline. The moment I hit a patch where there’s cell service, the post goes live. I do not have to be at the cell tower, nor do I have to have written the post right before it gets sent. Heck, if I want, I can even schedule it to get sent.

“En route to the Refuge, I see a sign pointing to the Hospice. I bet I can do it if I really book it. Besides, I’m making good time, and I really don’t want to be hanging out at the Refuge. I can see it from here, and it just looks so lonely and isolated. There’s no water, no hot shower, no good toilet, no internet, no people, and boy did those feel great the day before yesterday when I bailed from the hike I was planning to do. Such a nice man gave me a lift. But here I am. I hadn’t even thought of that ‘til now. I can go to the Hospice. Let me just give them a ring and see if they’re open. Dang, no service. Might as well turn the cell off: there’s no service here. But I have a feeling the Hospice is open, so no worries, and I’m getting lonely out here. Maybe it’s a bit out of my comfort zone, but I know I can bivouac if I don’t make it all the way, since I just did that a couple of days ago, and it was really all right.”
And off she goes on the trail to the Hospice.