Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[cujenn81]

Was it ever said who actually found the girls?

I just started watching the original PCs on YT, but I’ve haven’t not heard a specific name mentioned. Instead I’ve heard a lot of vagueness.

This is about the only thing that’s been said about the volunteer who found the girls.

from a post upthread:

so this quote doesn’t have the cell phone part but I’m still looking for it.
Families of teens murdered on Delphi, Ind. trail speak out 1 year after discovery of bodies

It was a volunteer searcher who discovered the bodies of the Delphi teens, lying in the grass between a group of trees deep in the woods.

"He saw something. He could not figure out what it was. There were two deer standing up there. As he looked up to see what it was, that is when he saw them," said Libby's grandma, Becky Patty.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

This is about the only thing that’s been said about the volunteer who found the girls.

from a post upthread:

so this quote doesn’t have the cell phone part but I’m still looking for it.
Families of teens murdered on Delphi, Ind. trail speak out 1 year after discovery of bodies

It was a volunteer searcher who discovered the bodies of the Delphi teens, lying in the grass between a group of trees deep in the woods.

"He saw something. He could not figure out what it was. There were two deer standing up there. As he looked up to see what it was, that is when he saw them," said Libby's grandma, Becky Patty.

Thank you.
I had read this. But I also listened to & watched a PC on 2/14, just after they had found the girls bodies. The ISP police officer said that they were found on the waters edge.
I keep watching videos, and then subsequently reading various articles that don’t line up with the PCs’s.

Im thinking that I should start reading the threads from the beginning. It will take what seems like forever from my current POV, but my gut keeps telling me to start reading from the beginning.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

Thank you.
I had read this. But I also listened to & watched a PC on 2/14, just after they had found the girls bodies. The ISP police officer said that they were found on the waters edge.
I keep watching videos, and then subsequently reading various articles that don’t line up with the PCs’s.

Im thinking that I should start reading the threads from the beginning. It will take what seems like forever from my current POV, but my gut keeps telling me to start reading from the beginning.

By no means a bad idea, and what I’ve been doing lately. You’ll notice as time goes on how potential evidence (cigarette butts; boots removed from a nearby business; police search warrants, etc.) and police inquiries (hitchhiker; CPS abandoned vehicle; abandoned bag, etc.) sort-of fade into oblivion for whatever reason.

LE or the family have never released some variation of a timeline, have they? I’ve seen speculation from outsiders, but am looking for a more “official” source. Even if it’s relegated to a short clip in a presser.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Thank you.
I had read this. But I also listened to & watched a PC on 2/14, just after they had found the girls bodies. The ISP police officer said that they were found on the waters edge.
I keep watching videos, and then subsequently reading various articles that don’t line up with the PCs’s.

Im thinking that I should start reading the threads from the beginning. It will take what seems like forever from my current POV, but my gut keeps telling me to start reading from the beginning.

The only constant in this case is how everything LE says is constantly changing. What was being said by police and supposedly known around, say, November 2017, looks entirely different a year later and of course, the April 2019 press conference completely changed everything.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

By no means a bad idea, and what I’ve been doing lately. You’ll notice as time goes on how potential evidence (cigarette butts; boots removed from a nearby business; police search warrants, etc.) and police inquiries (hitchhiker; CPS abandoned vehicle; abandoned bag, etc.) sort-of fade into oblivion for whatever reason.

LE or the family have never released some variation of a timeline, have they? I’ve seen speculation from outsiders, but am looking for a more “official” source. Even if it’s relegated to a short clip in a presser.

One of the things that I am also doing is watching the PC’s over & over, as well as interviews with the families, looking for tells, and facial expressions, especially from LE.

Being a late in life diagnosed autistic person, I have learned, rather I taught myself, over the years to study people’s faces, their non-verbal expressions, micro-expressions, their body language, etc...

Some things that jump out to me are how some of the misc officials reacted to some of the things that ISP Superintendent, Douglas Carter said in the 2/22/17 PC (https://youtu.be/P1uSKrtYdDw )


Some of the men, standing behind him, and to his side (our left side as a viewer) reacted oddly to some of the things he said. IMHAmateurO some of the reactions were tells to me.


And then I watched the interview from Inside Edition with Libby’s mom, Carrie Timmons, which led me to believe that she thought that there was a possibility that one of them, if not both, could have been found alive had LE continued their search that night.

During the interview she said around minute 1:10-ish, “The girls could have possibly been found that night and who knows what the outcome could have been.” And not only that, the tone that she used sounded like she was disdained/contemptuous.

For quick reference:

Also on a sidenote, IMHAspieO, BG is definitely from IN. The pitch of his voice sounds like it. At least according to my auditory savant-ish/eidetic like ears.



M00.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

The only constant in this case is how everything LE says is constantly changing. What was being said by police and supposedly known around, say, November 2017, looks entirely different a year later and of course, the April 2019 press conference completely changed everything.

Why is that, in your opinion? Or anyone’s opinion for that matter?

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

By no means a bad idea, and what I’ve been doing lately. You’ll notice as time goes on how potential evidence (cigarette butts; boots removed from a nearby business; police search warrants, etc.) and police inquiries (hitchhiker; CPS abandoned vehicle; abandoned bag, etc.) sort-of fade into oblivion for whatever reason.

LE or the family have never released some variation of a timeline, have they? I’ve seen speculation from outsiders, but am looking for a more “official” source. Even if it’s relegated to a short clip in a presser.

It really makes me wonder why after all of these years, the families of L&A are still ok with and are still going along with LE idea of keeping everything hush-hush. As a parent that makes absolutely ZERO sense to me.

M00.

 

[JnRyan]

Why is that, in your opinion? Or anyone’s opinion for that matter?

My opinion: The unique line of communication(s) in this case. To start with any case is going to involve more information becoming known as the investigation progresses as tips come in, interviews conducted and evidence processed. But in addition here we don't seem to have one single source of info from LE. At times, we hear from the ISP lead investigator, 1st Sgt Holeman, who is directly involved. Then we hear from ISP Superintendent Carter and while he certainly receives periodic updates, he also has a statewide LE to run and is not likely directly involved in detail on a daily basis. But he provides interviews to the media. Then Carroll County Sheriff Leazenby provides his thoughts. I can remember at least 3 different ISP spokespersons providing information, but most commonly now retired ISP Sgt Kim Riley. Sgt Kim Riley frequently granted interviews and while he likely he likely has detailed knowledge of the case, he is not likely directly involved in detail on a daily basis. Finally, we have the DA, Ives, who was involved in the beginning, but then retired as the DA. I believe Ives came back later in some capacity, but there might be a gap when he wasn't involved and he has granted interviews.

I remember other cases such as Hannah Graham's abduction and murder here in VA and the Charlottesville PD Chief was the sole communicator from LE. When Jayme Closs was abducted I only recall the county sheriff providing the interviews. But here in Delphi we have a cast of characters. Early on in the case someone (ISP Sgt Riley?) said something about getting DNA and then backed off. Then at the 2018 CrimeCon, ISP 1st Sgt Holeman states that they will neither confirm nor deny having DNA evidence. After the April 2019 PC ISP states that the 2nd sketch is primary and the 1st sketch should be considered secondary. About 2-3 weeks after that 2019 PC, ISP Superintendent Carter states that both sketches are relevant as the killer might look like something in between the two. (I am trying to remember any other investigation where the state police superintendent even granted an interview, let alone run so many public appearances.)

There doesn't seem to be one single point of contact with regard to the case. Too many cooks stirring the pot. But again, that is just my opinion.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Why is that, in your opinion? Or anyone’s opinion for that matter?

JnRyan already gave their thoughts on this and I would agree with them , that part of the problem is too many people acting as spokesperson.
I also think trying to appear accessible and transparent conflicted with trying to withhold all information from the public. No one has said anything in quite a while so maybe they finally figured that was the best plan.
The above involves communication but some issues seem to involve the case itself. All cases that go unsolved for awhile evolve, but I have never seen one mutate before, and that’s what this one has done. It doesn’t just evolve and change a little bit, it morphs into something entirely different....fairly regularly. Considering the tiny amount of information that LE has released, this is astounding to me. I hope things on the inside of the investigation are not as confused and crazy as it sometimes appears on the outside.

 

[flashy09]

It really makes me wonder why after all of these years, the families of L&A are still ok with and are still going along with LE idea of keeping everything hush-hush. As a parent that makes absolutely ZERO sense to me.

M00.

Sometimes I wonder if LE just has nothing to offer. They have done their best with the video and audio clean up. What if there is no usuable DNA, so they can't release whatever else they have, like "signatures", because that is only way to rule out false confessions.

I have said this so many times, but I think the hope is a social media blitz. Tiktok is where the youth are and if BG is young maybe a peer will recognize. Facebook videos get around too.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Some of the men, standing behind him, and to his side (our left side as a viewer) reacted oddly to some of the things he said. IMHAmateurO some of the reactions were tells to me.

I remember vague, that I thought the same as you and I wondered ....

 

[cujenn81]

It really makes me wonder why after all of these years, the families of L&A are still ok with and are still going along with LE idea of keeping everything hush-hush. As a parent that makes absolutely ZERO sense to me.

M00.

Your comment just reminded me of something I heard a detective say in the final podcast episode of Scene of the Crime Season 2, so I went back to listen again.

The second season examines the unsolved murders of Roger Atkison and Rose Berkert in Williamsburg, Iowa at the Amana Holiday Inn in 1980.

The lead detective said:

“Some information was kept close early on, which is understandable, but that didn’t work. We’ve tried it that way and now we’re putting everything out there. There’s really very little that we won’t talk about because if there’s one thing that could jar someone’s memory...”

“I think at some point you have to change the way you do things. In my experience working as a law enforcement officer, the more the public knows... really the better off you are. If the public is aware of what you’re trying to accomplish, if there’s something the average person can do to help you in LE, they’re probably going to do it.”

Paul Holes then echoed that statement:
“As cases age, there’s more impetus to release more info about the case.”

I realize four years is not the same as forty... but I wonder at what point LE will decide to release additional information in this case.

 

[Ozoner]

IMO, sketch #2 from 2017 and video from 2017 and age indication 18-40 accordingly for 2017, mentioned in 2019.

You may be right, but I wish they would clarify what they mean. (The age range is so broad that it might not make much difference.)

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Your comment just reminded me of something I heard a detective say in the final podcast episode of Scene of the Crime Season 2, so I went back to listen again.

The second season examines the unsolved murders of Roger Atkison and Rose Berkert in Williamsburg, Iowa at the Amana Holiday Inn in 1980.

The lead detective said:

“Some information was kept close early on, which is understandable, but that didn’t work. We’ve tried it that way and now we’re putting everything out there. There’s really very little that we won’t talk about because if there’s one thing that could jar someone’s memory...”

“I think at some point you have to change the way you do things. In my experience working as a law enforcement officer, the more the public knows... really the better off you are. If the public is aware of what you’re trying to accomplish, if there’s something the average person can do to help you in LE, they’re probably going to do it.”

Paul Holes then echoed that statement:
“As cases age, there’s more impetus to release more info about the case.”

I realize four years is not the same as forty... but I wonder at what point LE will decide to release additional information in this case.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! This post is a winner!

 

[PaulaDC]

I know that BG clothing has been hashed and re-hashed. But I was thinking about that jacket. I've been here since the beginning popping in and out and don't recall anyone saying it so if I'm repeating an idea....that blue jacket. They make jackets like that reversible. Plaid inside. If he reversed the jacket he'd have a flannel jacket on. moo

 

[Falling Down]

I need to find the YT video again, but there was one that featured a outsider who visited the area and came across a path (or trail) which wrapped around and eventually led to the cemetery. The scariest part was that there was a spot which featured a direct view to the entirety of Monon if “BG” was hiding or waiting. I also believe this path led to where the girls bodies were located.

I’m basing the above off memory and it may not sound crystal clear, but has anyone seen a video or have pictures of this path?

edit — looks like others have simply called “cemetery path.”

Folks should keep in mind that's private property.

Be that as it may, I've seen those videos. MSM videos also show paths, mainly on RL's property. The one trail adjacent to the abandoned gravel pit, just below the cemetery, is actually a prior driveway which led to the gravel pit. That path was used on the day of the discovery of the bodies, by LE. On the other side of the pit on the other property is a ravine, which starts up in the cemetery.

I believe there are 4 paths BG would have been aware of on those properties, and he went out there during Winter because the vegetation was down.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It really makes me wonder why after all of these years, the families of L&A are still ok with and are still going along with LE idea of keeping everything hush-hush. As a parent that makes absolutely ZERO sense to me.

M00.

I can imagine, both of the families were enlightened by LE, that they have a very dangerous suspect (or two, who are similar in their optics and close connected) in their view, and it would be important, to say not a single word about their Poi/s because of ...(here include the reason, which might be way more special than re other homicides). Whether LE named the POI/s or not, I'm not sure. What I can't imagine, is the fact, that LE said something like this during a short time before the April presser. BUT the families were shocked, afaik, and were crying, when the PC began. There has to be a certain reason for that, and this wouldn't have been the reason, that LE "changed their strategy". IMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I can imagine, both of the families were enlightened by LE, that they have a very dangerous suspect (or two, who are similar in their optics and close connected) in their view, and it would be important, to say not a single word about their Poi/s because of ...(here include the reason, which might be way more special than re other homicides). Whether LE named the POI/s or not, I'm not sure. What I can't imagine, is the fact, that LE said something like this during a short time before the April presser. BUT the families were shocked, afaik, and were crying, when the PC began. There has to be a certain reason for that, and this wouldn't have been the reason, that LE "changed their strategy". IMO

I was under the impression, and I thought the families had said, that other than being allowed to listened to a little more of the video, they didn’t know anymore than the general public.
A lot of us thought at the time that the families before the 2019 press conference were told a POI and the families knew this person which is why they were upset. If I remember right, LE said after the presser that in their meeting with the families before the April 2019 press conference that it was more of a courtesy to let them know what was going to be said. Giving them a heads up. I don’t think the families learned anything more in that meeting than we did from the press conference. I think their tears were from shock and frustration and anger of sending out thousands of posters for two years with a sketch on it that LE was getting ready to abandon for another. LE basically told them they were starting over. The families had reason to be upset.
Just my thoughts.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I know that BG clothing has been hashed and re-hashed. But I was thinking about that jacket. I've been here since the beginning popping in and out and don't recall anyone saying it so if I'm repeating an idea....that blue jacket. They make jackets like that reversible. Plaid inside. If he reversed the jacket he'd have a flannel jacket on. moo

How can you tell what type of jacket it is with the pic being so blurry?

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I can imagine, both of the families were enlightened by LE, that they have a very dangerous suspect (or two, who are similar in their optics and close connected) in their view, and it would be important, to say not a single word about their Poi/s because of ...(here include the reason, which might be way more special than re other homicides). Whether LE named the POI/s or not, I'm not sure. What I can't imagine, is the fact, that LE said something like this during a short time before the April presser. BUT the families were shocked, afaik, and were crying, when the PC began. There has to be a certain reason for that, and this wouldn't have been the reason, that LE "changed their strategy". IMO

If you think there is more than one perp, do you think that one of them was under 18 at the time of the murders?