Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[Jo in Calif]

I’m not convinced the AP had nothing to do with the boys disappearance. I’m not trying to defend them on that note. However, I do believe we need to be careful in jumping to conclusions about specific actions. We don’t know what LE instructed them to do nor what communication resources they were left with. Maybe they could’ve released a statement through LE (as noted in my post) but at the same time, maybe LE said that wasn’t a good idea at the moment and not to talk to the media. That does happen in certain cases for strategic purposes. As far as going out to thank neighbors, I wouldn’t leave my home to go speak to the people shouting in front of my house and throwing rocks at it breaking windows. Even if some of them were out searching, many were acting out in the street. Again, I’m not saying they are 100% innocent. I welcome thoughts and ideas about behaviors too since really that’s all we have at this point. With that said, the lack of info is exactly why I think we should consider both possibilities here. 1. They didn’t speak out because they know more than they’re letting on, and 2. Maybe they weren’t able/allowed to for investigative and/or safety reasons.

edited to clarify my thoughts better

That video I posted was on Tue, the day after they were reported missing. There was no angry mob out chanting nor was anyone one throwing rocks or breaking windows.
The next day, Wed the 23rd. when the bio family showed up that's when the goods hit the fan and the unrest started and that is the day they came out and spoke to media.
My thing is is why not on the day after they went missing go out and thank the community searching for your boys. Why wait until the next day when the unrest started?

 

[IReadTooMuch]

Thanks for posting this video!

If the time on the video is behind by an hour then it looks like the dad drove the van at around 5:40 for about four minutes, then came back and called LE around 5:45. The police chief said they arrived within five minutes.

I did not see any video from 4:30 until the time the dad comes out at around 5:30 so it would be interesting to see what they were doing for those 45 minutes. I think the neighbor said he didn't see them but I guess if the dad was throwing wood on the other side of the house he wouldn't be seen.

I didn't see the mom looking outside at all. They claimed they searched the house first, which would mean they were inside for at least 30 minutes before the dad got in the van. The video does not show the period of time between when the boys were found to be missing and when he got in the van but it makes no sense for them to be searching the house all that time.

Imo

Did police ever confirm AM was even home that night?

 

[Trocroc9]

The AP’s are just way too calm in moo. From the press release someone in the crowd yells out at them that they don’t even look worried. The AD responds by saying “ I’ve been going through it all for 2 days”. Whoa a whole two days! Excuse me but if my kids were missing for 20 minutes I would be a wreck and I can only suspect it would continue to get worse as time went on. I suspect they have been missing much longer than 2 days when that press release came out.

 

[cuffem]

The AP’s are just way too calm in moo. From the press release someone in the crowd yells out at them that they don’t even look worried. The AD responds by saying “ I’ve been going through it all for 2 days”. Whoa a whole two days! Excuse me but if my kids were missing for 20 minutes I would be a wreck and I can only suspect it would continue to get worse as time went on. I suspect they have been missing much longer than 2 days when that press release came out.

Yes, they have had time to process the situation and there is no urgency in their voice just here is what happened.

 

[cuffem]

If there was any emotion in their mannerisms, it would be nervousness for themselves not their missing children. They appeared to be cautious in their speech and I suspect they rehearsed their words many times prior to interview.

 

[MoeInVA]

If LE really needs public help on sightings or searches, it sure would help if they would put out updated info on where and when boys were last seen by anyone other than the parents.

That would help get the right people thinking about sightings that might be significant or checking surveillance or calling out potential locations of interest if it was not in Cal City.

That video I posted was on Tue, the day after they were reported missing. There was no angry mob out chanting nor was anyone one throwing rocks or breaking windows.
The next day, Wed the 23rd. when the bio family showed up that's when the goods hit the fan and the unrest started and that is the day they came out and spoke to media.
My thing is is why not on the day after they went missing go out and thank the community searching for your boys. Why wait until the next day when the unrest started?

ETA: They were still hoping to stay anonymous at that point. The parents seemed to have some idea they could report kids missing and stay anonymous. Only after it became abundantly clear their names would get out there did they grant their first and only interview.

Personally I think one of the reasons they wanted to stay anonymous was that they had told extended family a totally different story for why O & O were absent and or they knew whatever excuse they had used for lack of visits would be exposed.

 

[MsMarple]

last updated 2:38 PM, Jan 14, 2021
CALIFORNIA CITY, Calif. — A San Diego private investigator working the missing California City boys case pro bono, confirmed with 23ABC News Thursday that he is stepping down from the case.

"I feel like I haven't been accepted as a professional in this particular case," Bill Garcia told 23ABC News.

"I have run into this type of situation in the past," Garcia said. "It doesn't get better and it only spirals out of control. I recognize what is starting to happen with law enforcement. It's not productive for me to continue under these types of declining circumstances."
Private investigator stepping down from California City missing boys case

It seems like a publicity grab to me.

Mm hm. between this and his prior quote posted upthread - assuming msm quoted him accurately - I don't get a good vibe from the guy. For example, compare him to David Marshburn or Tim Miller (Texas EquuSearch). I don't recall either of those men throwing shade on LE.

It seems that it's more often that PIs bow out of a case because they no longer trust their client (think Deorr), not because they're pissed at local LE. Sorry but it feels like he's a prima donna. JMO.

 

[ForensicToxicologist]

If LE really needs public help on sightings or searches, it sure would help if they would put out updated info on where and when boys were last seen by anyone other than the parents.

That would help get the right people thinking about sightings that might be significant or checking surveillance or calling out potential locations of interest if it was not in Cal City.

This! And release updated pictures of the boys. Although that seems to be because there aren’t any to release rather than LE holding back. It’s such a shame because children’s features change so rapidly at a young age. The boys people are looking for based on those images aren’t really the boys people would actually be seeing IMO.

 

[MoeInVA]

This! And release updated pictures of the boys. Although that seems to be because there aren’t any to release rather than LE holding back. It’s such a shame because children’s features change so rapidly at a young age. The boys people are looking for based on those images aren’t really the boys people would actually be seeing IMO.

Agree. The lack of any photos from the last YEAR has me like

 

[MsMarple]

A punishment that went wrong could explain this. Maybe even something as simple as locking both boys together in an unheated place/, resulting in hypothermia and death.

Ugh, that reminds me of Makayla Roberts and Hannah Marshall. They were put in an old car and sealed inside with duct tape when a cult leader decided they were "impure." Between heat and starvation they both perished.

I don't think that happened in this case but you do point out how creative people can be when they choose to harm innocent children. But aside from that it's quite the mystery to see two kids missing, especially when there are older children in the home who are quite capable of speaking with LE.

 

[Eloise]

Agree. The lack of any photos from the last YEAR has me like

Same! They're preschoolers! It's not like they're older kids who have become camera shy or conscious about the camera in any way. Kids that age LOVE having their photo taken! There should be hundreds of photos.

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

Personally I think one of the reasons they wanted to stay anonymous was that they had told extended family a totally different story for why O & O were absent and or they knew whatever excuse they had used for lack of visits would be exposed.

That's a good point. It's also in line with the way the extended family is distancing themselves from the adoptive parents in their statements. MOO

 

[MoeInVA]

That's a good point. It's also in line with the way the extended family is distancing themselves from the adoptive parents in their statements. MOO

Certain family members had a lot of public posts prior to kids going missing, but despite the fact that family was interrogated within 12 hours of the missing report (per verified medium post), none posted photos or pleas
For the missing boys until they were missing for weeks. #telling

Ps I have some sympathy for the family. Appreciate they weren’t trying to propagate unverified claims from their kin! It isn’t easy!

 

[mickey2942]

Same! They're preschoolers! It's not like they're older kids who have become camera shy or conscious about the camera in any way. Kids that age LOVE having their photo taken! There should be hundreds of photos.

Yes. The parents did not have any recent pictures? Odd.

 

[PommyMommy]

JAN 17, 2021
Cal City extends reward for info on missing boys | News | avpress.com
The $25,000 reward committed by California City for information in finding brothers Orson West, three, and Orrin West, four, was extended to Jan. 26.

The City Council voted to approve the extension during Tuesday’s City Council meeting to avoid the reward from expiring later that night as approved by the Council during a Jan. 7 special meeting.


[...]

The information that leads to finding the West boys must also lead to an arrest and conviction in order to collect the reward committed by the city.

[...]

 

[MsBetsy]

Did police ever confirm AM was even home that night?

Not that I remember but in the surveillance video she is apparently outside with her husband when police arrive. According to the parents, they were inside the house with a police officer that night while the search was going on. Imo

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Case Archive is updated.

Orrin and Orson West -CA-

 

[ForensicToxicologist]

JAN 17, 2021
Cal City extends reward for info on missing boys | News | avpress.com
The $25,000 reward committed by California City for information in finding brothers Orson West, three, and Orrin West, four, was extended to Jan. 26.

The City Council voted to approve the extension during Tuesday’s City Council meeting to avoid the reward from expiring later that night as approved by the Council during a Jan. 7 special meeting.


[...]

The information that leads to finding the West boys must also lead to an arrest and conviction in order to collect the reward committed by the city.

[...]

Does anyone have experience with a reward like this? It seems very odd to me. Almost like it was targeted to a particular someone to get them to come forward. I don’t ever remember seeing a reward that expires after a certain date. Nor one that has stipulations of not only finding the boys but supplying info that leads to an arrest and conviction. IMO is up to the DA to ensure a conviction. It’s not a persons fault if they don’t get the proper evidence or can’t present the case well enough to gain a conviction. Shouldn’t they be encouraging ANY info that leads to the boys? That’s why it sounded almost targeted to me.

 

[NCHydrangea]

Does anyone have experience with a reward like this? It seems very odd to me. Almost like it was targeted to a particular someone to get them to come forward. I don’t ever remember seeing a reward that expires after a certain date. Nor one that has stipulations of not only finding the boys but supplying info that leads to an arrest and conviction. IMO is up to the DA to ensure a conviction. It’s not a persons fault if they don’t get the proper evidence or can’t present the case well enough to gain a conviction. Shouldn’t they be encouraging ANY info that leads to the boys? That’s why it sounded almost targeted to me.

The reward has gotten high enough that I’m sure LE is getting inundated with “tips”... some from honest people who have relevant things to add and some, not so much.

I’ve seen the stipulation that rewards lead to an arrest and conviction but I don’t recall seeing one with an expiration date. The expiration date could have something to do with the Town’s End of (fiscal) Year. I don’t know when their EOY is, but those funds came out of someone’s budget and will have to be used or absorbed back into (probably something like General Funds) to be reallocated for the 20/21 Fiscal Year.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

I've seen some odd-term rewards here and there but not exactly like this. It's like they are reaching for a best friend or sibling to talk.
Big rewards do bring out the crazies and attention grabbers. "Look under the house" people. Then again, there are real cases with secret rooms and people buried under the house (John Wayne Gacy).