Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

[Sphinx]

KNOW: Greenspan is still very hands on. He’s been paid to do a job and he’s doing in IMO quite well. Less about catching murderers and more about keeping the double murder alive and believable. Make no mistake....he’s playing a very naughty game.

Would there be any financial reasons to hide the murder/suicide theory ? Would this somehow impact inheritances, and/or business and profits at Apotec ? Is it just a wish by the family to avoid public shame and humiliation, or is there more to it ? I know some life insurance policies are invalid if the insured person committed suicide. Would Barry have been involved with any special insurance policies to cover losses and liabilites at Apotec that would be negated by his suicide ?

Barry moved in a complex world of high finance deals, and contracts that is beyond my knowledge. I am just trying to understand " the naughty game " .

 

[ldlager]

KNOW: Greenspan is still very hands on. He’s been paid to do a job and he’s doing in IMO quite well. Less about catching murderers and more about keeping the double murder alive and believable. Make no mistake....he’s playing a very naughty game.

well if he is still involved he is working for free. So somehow I doubt it.

 

[ldlager]

KNOW: Greenspan is still very hands on. He’s been paid to do a job and he’s doing in IMO quite well. Less about catching murderers and more about keeping the double murder alive and believable. Make no mistake....he’s playing a very naughty game.

well if he is still involved he is working for free. So somehow I doubt it.

 

[Rush4087]

well if he is still involved he is working for free. So somehow I doubt it.

Maybe he is now just trying to collect the 10 million dollar reward?!

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe he is now just trying to collect the 10 million dollar reward?!

I’d imagine an opportunity of collecting the $10 million reward is a powerful motivator for anybody on the periphery.

 

[kiwi50]

I’d imagine an opportunity of collecting the $10 million reward is a powerful motivator for anybody on the periphery.

Oh the irony if Greenspan collected the reward and the perp was whom quite a few of us suspect.

 

[Kerry Winter]

Happy Sunday to all -
Wanted to jump into the conversation this afternoon (rarely post and tend to just follow along). However, I do appreciate KW's thoughts & opinions and as a VI, always look forward to reading his posts. KW... might I ask for your perception of the Sherman sibling dynamics?

Thx JennyJenny. My best friend Greg happens to also be a very close to Ted Florence, Barry’s oldest nephew. He’s told me that the 4 children were NEVER close growing up and ALL had difficulty with Honey in particular. As Barry liked saying, “she’s mean spirited”.
If you looked up dysfunctional toxic family in the dictionary you’d find a pic of the Sherman’s. As they grew older, they grew further apart from one another. Lauren stood behind Jonathon at the memorial service with sunglasses on. I can assure you it wasn’t hiding tears rolling down her cheeks. When you grow up in a family with a sociopathic father and a cold hearted mother, you tend to have problems later on in life. I don’t claim to completely understand the family pathology but Freud would probably label the neurotic family dynamic as somewhat “unhealthy”. There is no mystery as to why the 4 are having a miserable time....losing their parents must have pushed them off the cliff. My prediction: it will get worse for them as time goes by. All the tea in China doesn’t bring happiness.
****Never will forget the time Barry asked me, “what does it feel like to love”?

 

[Kerry Winter]

It isn't feasible (wildy insane actually) that a son would take on the heat, shame and public scorn by purposely (sly as a fox) making himself look guilty of killing his parents---just to disprove a M/S. And his siblings and Greenspan are playing along so that Barry's reputation isn't tainted, as JS becomes public enemy number one?

That's quite a stretch KW. jmo

I’ll tell you what a “stretch” is: that on January 26, Gomes holds a press conference to tell the world B+H were targeted by multiple murderers.....6 weeks after the TPS said, “no forced entry, no suspects, murder/suicide”! One thing has also always puzzled me: if indeed Barry was forcibly dragged against his will to the pool, a belt aggressively wrapped around his neck and hung.....why wasn’t there ANY defensive wounds or lacerations as a result of a struggle? Not a bruise, cut or scrape.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I’ll tell you what a “stretch” is: that on January 26, Gomes holds a press conference to tell the world B+H were targeted by multiple murderers.....6 weeks after the TPS said, “no forced entry, no suspects, murder/suicide”! One thing has also always puzzled me: if indeed Barry was forcibly dragged against his will to the pool, a belt aggressively wrapped around his neck and hung.....why wasn’t there ANY defensive wounds or lacerations as a result of a struggle? Not a bruise, cut or scrape.

He had abrasions on his wrists that indicates that he had hard restraints on prior to death. He likely couldn’t fight back.

 

[JDG]

I’ll tell you what a “stretch” is: that on January 26, Gomes holds a press conference to tell the world B+H were targeted by multiple murderers.....6 weeks after the TPS said, “no forced entry, no suspects, murder/suicide”! One thing has also always puzzled me: if indeed Barry was forcibly dragged against his will to the pool, a belt aggressively wrapped around his neck and hung.....why wasn’t there ANY defensive wounds or lacerations as a result of a struggle? Not a bruise, cut or scrape.

Could it be that he was rendered unconscious as soon as he walked into the house? He wouldnt fight if he was out of it.

 

[deugirtni]

I’ll tell you what a “stretch” is: that on January 26, Gomes holds a press conference to tell the world B+H were targeted by multiple murderers.....6 weeks after the TPS said, “no forced entry, no suspects, murder/suicide”! One thing has also always puzzled me: if indeed Barry was forcibly dragged against his will to the pool, a belt aggressively wrapped around his neck and hung.....why wasn’t there ANY defensive wounds or lacerations as a result of a struggle? Not a bruise, cut or scrape.

What if perp was hiding in backseat of B's car and killed him before he even exited? There are likely infinite possibilities as to why no defensive wounds or signs of struggle. He could have even been psychologically forced to do certain things against his will, which would also mean an absence of struggle, ie perps holding a knife to his wife's throat or something, unless he did... whatever they wanted; or the perps threatening him with some torturous thing if he didn't do whatever they wanted, perhaps even something to his wife. So many possibilities, so little time and brain-power to think of them all.

 

[deugirtni]

I’ll tell you what a “stretch” is: that on January 26, Gomes holds a press conference to tell the world B+H were targeted by multiple murderers.....6 weeks after the TPS said, “no forced entry, no suspects, murder/suicide”! One thing has also always puzzled me: if indeed Barry was forcibly dragged against his will to the pool, a belt aggressively wrapped around his neck and hung.....why wasn’t there ANY defensive wounds or lacerations as a result of a struggle? Not a bruise, cut or scrape.

To me, that is not a stretch at all. Six weeks prior, which would mean as soon as it happened, police may have been led to believe certain things by the staging of the scene. After investigating, the outlook may have been totally different. Why is that a stretch?

 

[deugirtni]

Thx JennyJenny. My best friend Greg happens to also be a very close to Ted Florence, Barry’s oldest nephew. He’s told me that the 4 children were NEVER close growing up and ALL had difficulty with Honey in particular. As Barry liked saying, “she’s mean spirited”.
If you looked up dysfunctional toxic family in the dictionary you’d find a pic of the Sherman’s. As they grew older, they grew further apart from one another. Lauren stood behind Jonathon at the memorial service with sunglasses on. I can assure you it wasn’t hiding tears rolling down her cheeks. When you grow up in a family with a sociopathic father and a cold hearted mother, you tend to have problems later on in life. I don’t claim to completely understand the family pathology but Freud would probably label the neurotic family dynamic as somewhat “unhealthy”. There is no mystery as to why the 4 are having a miserable time....losing their parents must have pushed them off the cliff. My prediction: it will get worse for them as time goes by. All the tea in China doesn’t bring happiness.
****Never will forget the time Barry asked me, “what does it feel like to love”?

Imo, and I could be terribly mistaken, every family is dysfunctional in their own way(s). Unless perhaps if you're the Cleaver family, or perhaps even they had dysfunction, not sure, never really watched that show. Every person also has dysfunction in some regard. There are also times within families, relationships, and personal situations, which can go on to become dysfunctional for a time - for a day, or for a moment, whatever. Nobody is perfect, no relationship is perfect. If B may have said some things at certain times in his life, he may have been simply reacting to the situation of the day, or the week, or the month, or the moment even,.. I know I have said things at certain points based on whatever was going on, and yet it doesn't define the person or the relationship, etc., it was but a moment in time, kind of like a photograph. B may have also been speaking with his tongue in his cheek, and maybe not everyone 'got' his type of humour. Perhaps it might take someone who has been in a marriage for decades to understand the ebbs and flows of a marriage, or even of parenting.. to me, it seems that in more recent times, people aren't willing to work with it, but rather, they simply pack it in. Just my opinion. But just because someone is IN a marriage, or a family, or a relationship of some kind, doesn't mean it's honey-lovey all the time.

 

[ldlager]

I’ll tell you what a “stretch” is: that on January 26, Gomes holds a press conference to tell the world B+H were targeted by multiple murderers.....6 weeks after the TPS said, “no forced entry, no suspects, murder/suicide”! One thing has also always puzzled me: if indeed Barry was forcibly dragged against his will to the pool, a belt aggressively wrapped around his neck and hung.....why wasn’t there ANY defensive wounds or lacerations as a result of a struggle? Not a bruise, cut or scrape.

Kerry what if I was to state that Barry did in fact have defensive wounds on his arms and hands, and that DNA was lifted from under his fingernails.
The reality is that none of us know if this is true or not. Just like we don't know if there were no defensive wounds.

 

[CAMBRIAN]

As mentioned before, I continue to believe that this was never a double homicide, I would like to put forward a new twist: HS had throat surgery in the past. Fragile larynx, easily crushed. Suppose that she and BS had a serious argument which turned physical. The evidence shows that she was involved in a physical altercation in another part of the house. Her cell phone was left in a bathroom if I remember. Assuming that the Barry caused her serious harm and she was seriously injured and died within hours. It was not pre meditated. Nevertheless, would Barry want to live the rest of his life as an accused murderous husband. Evidence did show both HS and BS had volatile temperaments at times. If I were Barry, I had a choice: face the consequences before the courts or find another way to re-write the events. Barry could have contacted someone close to him, a family member for example, and have that person complete the scenario...stage the bodies by the pool, assist Barry in dying, make it so that no one could think that he could have staged this on his own. Hence, the fictitious search for a vilain or villains. It's a theory, but one that would explain everything
.

 

[ldlager]

As mentioned before, I continue to believe that this was never a double homicide, I would like to put forward a new twist: HS had throat surgery in the past. Fragile larynx, easily crushed. Suppose that she and BS had a serious argument which turned physical. The evidence shows that she was involved in a physical altercation in another part of the house. Her cell phone was left in a bathroom if I remember. Assuming that the Barry caused her serious harm and she was seriously injured and died within hours. It was not pre meditated. Nevertheless, would Barry want to live the rest of his life as an accused murderous husband. Evidence did show both HS and BS had volatile temperaments at times. If I were Barry, I had a choice: face the consequences before the courts or find another way to re-write the events. Barry could have contacted someone close to him, a family member for example, and have that person complete the scenario...stage the bodies by the pool, assist Barry in dying, make it so that no one could think that he could have staged this on his own. Hence, the fictitious search for a vilain or villains. It's a theory, but one that would explain everything
.

Who would agree to do that? It’s inconceivable.

Imagine the phone call. “....Hi *advertiser censored* it’s Barry here. I have killed honey, I need you to come over right now and strangle me. Then I want you to string us up with belts from the pool railing, and pull our jackets back so it looks like a suicide. Put some restraints around our wrists for a while, so it looks like honey and me were bound together. But be sure and take the restraints with you, so it looks like a double murder. You have to be careful, there are cameras in the neighbourhood, and on the roads, so I’m not sure how you’re going to get here and leave undetected. And don’t bring your phone, it can be traced. Oh and by the way, you need to do this out of the goodness of your heart, since I’m leaving all my money to the 4 kids. And also if you get caught or if you are seen on camera or by a neighbour you will probably serve the rest of your life in jail. But I know you will do this for me. What time will you be here....”

 

[CAMBRIAN]

Well, you may be right...but, like I underlined: it's a theory. I don't see the need for the sarcasm. If you have a better theory, please let it out. As the years pass, chances of solving are diminishing. In the real world, anything is possible

 

[ldlager]

Well, you may be right...but, like I underlined: it's a theory. I don't see the need for the sarcasm. If you have a better theory, please let it out. As the years pass, chances of solving are diminishing. In the real world, anything is possible

I don’t think we need to deal in theories when we already know the facts.
The Sherman’s were murdered. One or several people know who committed the murders and/or was involved in the crimes. Hopefully LE will solve this case, but I agree with you that with each passing day it would seem that the odds of that diminish. MOO

 

[WINDSOR]

If there was any possibility that if it was a M/S, do you think the TPS would spend all this time, effort and money to pretend it was a double murder?

Does anybody really care about the Sherman's legacy in terms of how they died? I think not.

No I believe the TPS have real tangible evidence that a double murder happened.

 

[MistyWaters]

If there was any possibility that if it was a M/S, do you think the TPS would spend all this time, effort and money to pretend it was a double murder?

Does anybody really care about the Sherman's legacy in terms of how they died? I think not.

No I believe the TPS have real tangible evidence that a double murder happened.

The suspect/s in the Shermans’ double murder would care most. A domestic m/s strongly resembles a defence strategy, similar to the Millard trial whereby it was argued the accused didn’t commit murder because the victim took his own life.

Which is why I wonder why KW is so bound and determined to offer up an advance defence theory to somebody prior to an arrest even occurring?