NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female, 23-33, & 3 Children, under 11, Nov'85 & May'00 #3

[onceuponadecember]

I will make a list of info on my candidates for grandparents for JD.

CANDIDATE SET OF GRANDPARENTS

• Grandparents would make JD a descendant of both the Livings and Mitchell line.
• Grandfather died in the 1980s: grandma in the early 2000s.
• Grandparents had at least one daughter (born in 1952).
• Daughter married in 1970 in Alabama.
• Unclear what happened to daughter, possibly JD’s mother or aunt.

 

[onceuponadecember]

There is also another set of candidates:

CANDIDATE SET OF GRANDPARENTS

• Grandmother was about 50% African American, which would make Jane about 12.5%
  
• Grandmother was a descendant of William Livings
• Grandmother had at least three daughters; one who was mentioned in her daughter’s obituary with no marriage or info on her
• Grandmother was from Harrison, MS.
• Grandfather was from New Orleans, LA and had spent time in Hancock County, MS

 

[Hiraeth_]

I will make a list of info on my candidates for grandparents for JD.

CANDIDATE SET OF GRANDPARENTS

• Grandparents would make JD a descendant of both the Livings and Mitchell line.
• Grandfather died in the 1980s: grandma in the early 2000s.
• Grandparents had at least one daughter (born in 1952).
• Daughter married in 1970 in Alabama.
• Unclear what happened to daughter, possibly JD’s mother or aunt.

I'm pretty sure I came to the same conclusion as you but I assumed it couldnt be that easy and erased the whole tree where I had both families. I then started two different ones for each man.

See I started on one man but quickly found the other just through ancestory hints. It seemed way too easy. It can't be that straight forward but that's why I said maybe they can only use Gedmatch and they cleverly stuck a bit of info out there so sleuths could use other sites and tip.

But to clarify, I concluded that someone who sounds a lot like you said was 1 or 2 generations away from the missing mum.

 

[stringofpurls]

I will make a list of info on my candidates for grandparents for JD.

CANDIDATE SET OF GRANDPARENTS

• Grandparents would make JD a descendant of both the Livings and Mitchell line.
• Grandfather died in the 1980s: grandma in the early 2000s.
• Grandparents had at least one daughter (born in 1952).
• Daughter married in 1970 in Alabama.
• Unclear what happened to daughter, possibly JD’s mother or aunt.

There is also another set of candidates:

CANDIDATE SET OF GRANDPARENTS

• Grandmother was about 50% African American, which would make Jane about 12.5%
  
• Grandmother was a descendant of William Livings
• Grandmother had at least three daughters; one who was mentioned in her daughter’s obituary with no marriage or info on her
• Grandmother was from Harrison, MS.
• Grandfather was from New Orleans, LA and had spent time in Hancock County, MS

Great work! It's exciting to see that there are a few candidates. I hope they pan out.

One thing I took away from the 20/20 episode that hadn't occurred to me before was the reason so many missing persons were never reported missing. It was a different time, and people like Marlyse didn't disappear overnight, they drifted away until 'suddenly', years have passed since last contact. TR seemed to slowly pull people away so I won't be surprised if the middle child's mother isn't listed anywhere as missing.

 

[Susikatze]

Also there is the remote possibility that the UIDs mother left the child with the father TR and went on with her life. She does not have to be killed, even though, given TRs profile, it is a high possibility.

Just thinking out loudly, she could have had an affair with him, gotten pregnant, wanted to give the child for adoption but since the bio father was around and in a new, seemingly stable relationship and job situation, she may have agreed to leave the child with the father.
Not the first and only mother who walked out. And TR did not kill every single one of his girlfriends.

Great work! It's exciting to see that there are a few candidates. I hope they pan out.

One thing I took away from the 20/20 episode that hadn't occurred to me before was the reason so many missing persons were never reported missing. It was a different time, and people like Marlyse didn't disappear overnight, they drifted away until 'suddenly', years have passed since last contact. TR seemed to slowly pull people away so I won't be surprised if the middle child's mother isn't listed anywhere as missing.

 

[Alleykins]

There was definitely a different level of contact back then, before the internet and cell phones. It wasn't unusual to go long periods of time without hearing from someone, and when you did, it didn't always raise a red flag that something might be amiss. In Denise Beaudin's case, TPR sort of set the stage at Thanksgiving by stating they were having financial troubles, iirc from the 20/20 video.

 

[Hiraeth_]

Also there is the remote possibility that the UIDs mother left the child with the father TR and went on with her life. She does not have to be killed, even though, given TRs profile, it is a high possibility.

Just thinking out loudly, she could have had an affair with him, gotten pregnant, wanted to give the child for adoption but since the bio father was around and in a new, seemingly stable relationship and job situation, she may have agreed to leave the child with the father.
Not the first and only mother who walked out. And TR did not kill every single one of his girlfriends.

I think he killed her and did not kill the child at the same time for financial reasons. Just a hunch but I thought for a long time about why this child would still be alive after her mum disappeared. There had to be an offset as she is essentially evidence of his link to her mum. He could move identifies seamlessly so why burden yourself with a link to a previous identify? Money, even the peanuts Governments give you for having a child to take care of, is enough for a lot of people to take stupid risks they don't need to.

Eventually, he had to cut ties with the lot of them because they were all baggage in terms of moving through aliases. Maybe he just snaps and that's what messes things up (ie kills his partner in a DV incident) or it could be some other things he's involved with go wrong and he has to move on and killing them seems like the logical thing to do. Especially if the woman isn't down with his plan to leave.

 

[Panhypopit]

There could also be approachability factor... a woman may not fear a man with a baby or small child. He could use that to move on to another target until the child is no longer useful or too much or a burden or old enough to “talk too much” than the child may become sadly disposable to this monster.

 

[ClaireNC]

I think he killed her and did not kill the child at the same time for financial reasons. Just a hunch but I thought for a long time about why this child would still be alive after her mum disappeared. There had to be an offset as she is essentially evidence of his link to her mum. He could move identifies seamlessly so why burden yourself with a link to a previous identify? Money, even the peanuts Governments give you for having a child to take care of, is enough for a lot of people to take stupid risks they don't need to.

Eventually, he had to cut ties with the lot of them because they were all baggage in terms of moving through aliases. Maybe he just snaps and that's what messes things up (ie kills his partner in a DV incident) or it could be some other things he's involved with go wrong and he has to move on and killing them seems like the logical thing to do. Especially if the woman isn't down with his plan to leave.

I doubt if he kept her around for financial reasons. He was a predator and children were his prey. Their mother's were just things that got in his way...the mothers were disposable. Once he got done playing with his prey, they became disposable too.

In order to get government support, he (and the child) would have had to be in the system. He took a lot of measures to remain on the edge of society.

 

[Alleykins]

I'm thinking of the timing of D/L being abandoned. It's possible he found out one of the barrels being discovered. This was before the internet, so news wouldn't have traveled as fast. Once he realized he could be found out, instead of murdering yet another child, which might draw attention to himself, he gave her away and skedaddled. Everyone presumes it was to avoid child abandonment charges, when it could very well be he was afraid of being found out and tied to NH. I think it's why he left NH in 1981, too. I truly think Sarah's paternal family was insisting on seeing her, either for the holidays or her birthday, and TPR couldn't put them off any longer, like what happened with Eunsoon.
That's why I was surprised he didn't take off after he killed her. He had plenty of time to disappear again.

 

[Springrain]

What a sick, sick man...no words for him

 

[onceuponadecember]

Hey guys, my students are at lunch right now so I have a few minutes to talk. I narrowed the candidates to one set of grandparents, let me give the details here:

• Jane Doe’s mother was born around 1952 in Mississippi or Alabama
• JD’s mother married a man in 1970 and no divorce records have been found. There are no records of her existence after 1970.
• If this woman is JD’s mother, JD would be the fifth great granddaughter of both Livings and Deadhorse Mitchell.
• JD’s possible mother’s parents died in 1982 and 2005: buried in Mississippi
• Jane Doe may have used the surname Gill.

 

[onceuponadecember]

Another thing I should mention is that JD was probably born out of Wedlock.

 

[Susikatze]

If we are talking about the same woman (only daughter but with several brothers, born late in her moms life), then she was alive and kicking when one of her siblings passed in 2020 (she is referred to as surviving sibling).

 

[onceuponadecember]

If we are talking about the same woman (only daughter but with several brothers, born late in her moms life), then she was alive and kicking when one of her siblings passed in 2020 (she is referred to as surviving sibling).

Maybe that was a mistake. This is a common pattern in UIDs, because they think said person is still alive, etc. (If you’re wondering why I’m on right now, I just have my students watching lessons I recorded. It really works well for them and follows the covid stuff)

 

[Susikatze]

True, but if someone is missing since the 80's, id assume they would be referred to as deceased.
And then again, JDs mom does not have to have been killed, although it is likely.

 

[onceuponadecember]

Here’s an updated list of info on JD’s candidate mother:

• Born in 1952 in Poplarville, Pearl River County, MS.
• Member of the LDS church.
• Had several brothers (some are still alive).
• Last record of her dates to 1970 in Montgomery, AL.
• Likely gave birth to JD out of wedlock.
• Fourth great granddaughter of Livings and Deadhorse Mitchell, making JD their fifth great granddaughter.

 

[onceuponadecember]

True, but if someone is missing since the 80's, id assume they would be referred to as deceased.
And then again, JDs mom does not have to have been killed, although it is likely.

True.

 

[onceuponadecember]

If we’re all going to be researching this tree, let me point out some important facts:

• Catherine Livings was half black/half white (biracial)
• The Livings had 6 kids who had kids of their own.

 

[Hiraeth_]

I doubt if he kept her around for financial reasons. He was a predator and children were his prey. Their mother's were just things that got in his way...the mothers were disposable. Once he got done playing with his prey, they became disposable too.

In order to get government support, he (and the child) would have had to be in the system. He took a lot of measures to remain on the edge of society.

Not if mum was registered and he just kept collecting her money. He seemed to be registered and working in most places which means you're in the system to some degree. He just used different aliases and they don't know all of them. That's my understanding.