Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - Pamela Buckley & James Freund #9

[Vern]

Old St Johns is more of a main road right off the interstate.

Off the interstate onto Old St Johns, then a turn onto Locklair Road (dirt road) where the murders occurred.

Old St John Church Rd - Google Maps

 

[Ajaygee11]

I got a kick out of this one. Anyone who follows the Delphi case is aware of Gray Hughes. He makes frequent videos and has a charming demeanor, going out of his way to call people idiots if they disagree with him. In particular, Gray Hughes stuffily poses himself as an online geography expert, forever tinkering with maps to demonstrate his superiority in piecing together where it happened.

Now, I may not have been able to isolate the Sumter County Doe murder scene until yesterday, when I finally became confident it was on the left side of Locklair and approximately 60-70 yards from the intersection with Old St. John Church Road. But at least I have always been able to find Locklair, both online and in person.

Let's just say Gray Hughes is having a bit of trouble. He ran a 65 minute live video on this case on January 22, featuring numerous attempts to find Locklair Road. At least 4 or 5. I was laughing all the way while watching this tonight. He never came particularly close, even though he had all the relevant info like adjacent to I-95 and near 341. Finally just beyond the 33 minute mark Gray asserted, "That road doesn't exist anymore."

At least he did have the full press conference and also some good articles from early days of the case:

Stumbled across a GH Podcast on YouTube once. Could not believe his attitude. I lasted two minutes.

 

[worm]

I’m hopefully curious about the Sheriff or investigator saying there was still “persons of interest” in this case.

 

[Susikatze]

If it was after dark, the watch may not have been noticed. And a carjacking would clearly be about stealing the car, not robbing small stuff. And it is all about quickly driving away from the scene, because the longer the carjacker takes, the more chances are, someone may witness the scene and identify the car.

But then again, we know nothing. It is likely they had a car. But we know nothing.
I hope they still have leads in that case.

Exactly this!. If you were taking the trouble to kill two people for their vehicle and you have also bothered to take their wallet/purse or anything that could contain i.d then why wouldn't you take an extra minute at most to take the expensive watch from a dead man's wrist? I just feel like it's all too clean for a carjacking.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I'd like to ask the moderator a question about something I'd like to post. Does anyone know if moderators are assigned to maintain certain threads or if I can just ask any mod? If so, how can I find the moderator? Thanks.

 

[killarney rose]

I think you can report the post you just made to bring it to the thread mod’s attention.

 

[fred&edna]

In older threads someone mentioned the "Gamecock Speedway" in Sumter Co, and last night I found some info (news clipping) dated Aug 2 1976, which I believe was referencing a race to happen the following weekend. It was late and I didn't save the link (not sure it would help, anyway). Also, I think there was the Hickory Motor Speedway in Hickory NC operating in the 70s. I haven't taken time to follow up on this but maybe? it could be a possible very loose link with anyone living in NC. Again, I'm not sure if any of this helps but mentioning it anyway.

 

[Fukiyama]

Old St Johns is more of a main road right off the interstate.

Off the interstate onto Old St Johns, then a turn onto Locklair Road (dirt road) where the murders occurred.

Old St John Church Rd - Google Maps

Not quite. One gets off the interstate onto 341 first and then hits St. John Church Road on the right hand side of 341.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I think you can report the post you just made to bring it to the thread mod’s attention.

Thank you! Awaiting a reply.

 

[Betty P]

Also from thread #3 the prominent user "Mysterylover" already had info that the finishing shot was not to the neck area.

Page #22 on November 8, 2008:

"I have cut and pasted some paragraphs below that say the couple was shot in the back of their heads...It does not mention being shot under the chin...big difference..."

"In 1977 SLED matched bullets from a .357-caliber Magnum with the serial number filed off, to bullets taken from the bodies.

"Entry wound examinations revealed someone shot them in the back of their heads to finish them off."

Thanks for verifying this again. I'm going to bookmark it.

This is one of those facts that people keep losing, coming back around to "I saw a neck wound" etc. I think what people are seeing in that photo is a small leaf that fell down on the victim's body. Regardless, its not important in the big picture.

It's noteworthy that neither of the victims had defense wounds. If there were also no signs of being bound, it means they were not expecting to be shot. It's highly likely James would have fought back had he known that.

If this was a carjacking, perhaps they were thinking "we'll just go along with this peacefully and walk out of here to get help when he's gone." Maybe they were prepared to start running to get away in the dark.

Also, there must have been some light, perhaps from a flashlight, headlights, etc. for the killer to have shot both victims with sufficient accuracy. Seems it would be difficult to do in total darkness. That road had to be pretty dark at that hour. No street lights, no houses or other buildings nearby.

For our ballistics experts: how many rounds could that .357 Magnum hold? Did the killer have to stop and reload? Were there any stray shots that missed?

One reason I ask this is based on a quote from a previous sheriff in one of the linked articles here. When discussing the primary suspect, he implied the guy had a reputation for drinking a lot. He was pulled over for a DUI when his car was searched. On the mixed poly exam results, the sheriff said (paraphrasing) "he drinks so much he very well could have killed them and doesn't remember it".

 

[wmm85]

In older threads someone mentioned the "Gamecock Speedway" in Sumter Co, and last night I found some info (news clipping) dated Aug 2 1976, which I believe was referencing a race to happen the following weekend. It was late and I didn't save the link (not sure it would help, anyway). Also, I think there was the Hickory Motor Speedway in Hickory NC operating in the 70s. I haven't taken time to follow up on this but maybe? it could be a possible very loose link with anyone living in NC. Again, I'm not sure if any of this helps but mentioning it anyway.

It appears from the Newspaper clippings that the Sumter Speedway hosted multiple events in August 1976 - including one on Saturday, August 7.

 

[Valiant]

Sumter Speedway appears to be a local dirt track. It would be quite unrelated to an IMSA race. Different track surface (dirt vs. paved), amateur drivers vs. professional, "stock" cars vs. dedicated race cars, etc. Local dirt tracks used to be all over, many still exist, and many had races monthly or weekly during the summer.
It would be like drawing a comparison between a professional baseball jersey and a little league ballfield.

 

[worldwatcher]

Reading up, about the shootings and the way, they were shot, I do think,a little different now, if that version mentioned,in the first threads is correct,.
(too bad, many links don't exist anymore, or the source is missing,
-sigh)

I do think, like it was mentioned by some people here.. James and Pamela, knew, that they were in a awful situation, - taken to the middle of nowhere, - pitch dark and properly forced to leave the van at gunpoint, were shot and the killer turned their bodies on their back, to look for (car) keys, wallets or to make sure they were dead...

ETA: February 5, 2015
"They were found face down in a kneeling position and shot in the back of the head," Mims said. "

" The items they left behind are in boxes in Sumter County and include a ring, a watch, and X-rays showing expensive dental work."

WIS Investigates: Dozens of unidentified remains leave investigators searching for leads

Also have read, that LE kept the gun as evidence, but I can't find that link anymore..

 

[Warwick1991]

Thanks for verifying this again. I'm going to bookmark it.

This is one of those facts that people keep losing, coming back around to "I saw a neck wound" etc. I think what people are seeing in that photo is a small leaf that fell down on the victim's body. Regardless, its not important in the big picture.

It's noteworthy that neither of the victims had defense wounds. If there were also no signs of being bound, it means they were not expecting to be shot. It's highly likely James would have fought back had he known that.

If this was a carjacking, perhaps they were thinking "we'll just go along with this peacefully and walk out of here to get help when he's gone." Maybe they were prepared to start running to get away in the dark.

Also, there must have been some light, perhaps from a flashlight, headlights, etc. for the killer to have shot both victims with sufficient accuracy. Seems it would be difficult to do in total darkness. That road had to be pretty dark at that hour. No street lights, no houses or other buildings nearby.

For our ballistics experts: how many rounds could that .357 Magnum hold? Did the killer have to stop and reload? Were there any stray shots that missed?

One reason I ask this is based on a quote from a previous sheriff in one of the linked articles here. When discussing the primary suspect, he implied the guy had a reputation for drinking a lot. He was pulled over for a DUI when his car was searched. On the mixed poly exam results, the sheriff said (paraphrasing) "he drinks so much he very well could have killed them and doesn't remember it".

As far as the firearm involved, it was a Smith & Wesson revolver with a 6-shot cylinder. That would have been a standard capacity for a .357 S&W revolver at that time. On early posts, it was said that each victim was shot 3 times. That is very efficient shooting, with no rounds going astray. To shoot both victims accurately in dim light or in darkness without reloading suggests LE training. In a previous post, I noted that counting shots was part of LE training at that time.

 

[Betty P]

As far as the firearm involved, it was a Smith & Wesson revolver with a 6-shot cylinder. That would have been a standard capacity for a .357 S&W revolver at that time. On early posts, it was said that each victim was shot 3 times. That is very efficient shooting, with no rounds going astray. To shoot both victims accurately in dim light or in darkness without reloading suggests LE training. In a previous post, I noted that counting shots was part of LE training at that time.

Thank you, that's very interesting. If LE, possibly someone from another jurisdiction? Recall, their bodies were found close to the county line.

What about someone with a military background? Someone not in LE, but with prior experience?

ETA:
There were also a couple of news items in the local Lancaster paper back in the 1960's listing James as getting a speeding ticket, another for reckless driving. Driving on a road trip, late at night, James might have been driving over the speed limit, possibly with out of state license plates.

 

[worldwatcher]

"Extra Notes: This case first aired on the January 20, 1995 episode about coroners, including Cullen Ellinburgh. It also featured those of the 1987 Jane Doe and 1990 Jane Doe."

Can anyone post a link, to stream it, if possible??
TIA
Sumter County Does

 

[Warwick1991]

Thank you, that's very interesting. If LE, possibly someone from another jurisdiction? What about someone with a military background?

I think it may point to someone with LE training. The military did not use revolvers nearly as much as LE - semi-automatics were used more often, although revolvers were issue to MPs. The Border Patrol also used revolvers. Revolvers were used by thousands of police departments nationwide, and training procedures emphasized awareness of the number of shots fired. Many departments trained their personnel to use 3 shots to the chest, AKA center mass.

Since a revolver retains the empty brass cases, reloading can be more of a challenge, and counting shots is critical. In order to reload, the shooter must eject the empty cases before inserting new cartridges. Police generally used a device known as a speed loader to load new cartridges in the cylinder after ejecting the empty cases. This process is generally not as fast as using a semi-automatic with a magazine. There could have been empty cases on the ground if the shooter reloaded; this is something we don’t know.

Most police departments switched to semi-automatics in the 1980’s. They replaced revolvers due to the advantage of having more ammunition available without reloading as often. Instead of having a revolver with 6 shots, the shooter would have 8 or more shots depending on the pistol make and model.

Shooting well in darkness points to marksmanship skills of exceptional ability, with both specialized training and continual practice. With regard to training, hunting would not be comparable, because legal hunting is usually during daylight hours. Although headlights may have illuminated the murder scene, visibility still would not be similar to daylight.

Many years ago, I had the opportunity to take a police revolver class, although I was not LE, so I have some familiarity with police revolver training.

I think one scenario might involve rogue LE pulling over the victims.

 

[wary]

Thank you, that's very interesting. If LE, possibly someone from another jurisdiction? Recall, their bodies were found close to the county line.

What about someone with a military background? Someone not in LE, but with prior experience?

ETA:
There were also a couple of news items in the local Lancaster paper back in the 1960's listing James as getting a speeding ticket, another for reckless driving. Driving on a road trip, late at night, James might have been driving over the speed limit, possibly with out of state license plates.

I asked this once before, but didn’t notice an answer. In this era and location, would LE have been driving one or two to a car? I’d think that one-to-a-car would be much less of a financial burden on the city/county/state.

The reason I ask is—if we think they were driving, and attacked by someone also driving a car, there has to be someone else who can drive their car away.

Or, spelling out what I’m thinking—I think if LE had pulled them over, gotten mad, and shot them, I think that their car would have been found with them.

 

[Warwick1991]

I asked this once before, but didn’t notice an answer. In this era and location, would LE have been driving one or two to a car? I’d think that one-to-a-car would be much less of a financial burden on the city/county/state.

The reason I ask is—if we think they were driving, and attacked by someone also driving a car, there has to be someone else who can drive their car away.

Or, spelling out what I’m thinking—I think if LE had pulled them over, gotten mad, and shot them, I think that their car would have been found with them.

I think it depends on the jurisdiction. Often, it was 1 officer, but not always. Where I live today, it’s one officer per vehicle. This crime has always been a tremendous challenge to figure out. Perhaps the shooter committed the crime alone, but returned to the scene with someone else to remove the victim’s vehicle. There might even have been more than one crime scene - one place where the victims were accosted, and another where their bodies were placed.

 

[wary]

Thanks for verifying this again. I'm going to bookmark it.

This is one of those facts that people keep losing, coming back around to "I saw a neck wound" etc. I think what people are seeing in that photo is a small leaf that fell down on the victim's body. Regardless, its not important in the big picture.

It's noteworthy that neither of the victims had defense wounds. If there were also no signs of being bound, it means they were not expecting to be shot. It's highly likely James would have fought back had he known that.

If this was a carjacking, perhaps they were thinking "we'll just go along with this peacefully and walk out of here to get help when he's gone." Maybe they were prepared to start running to get away in the dark.

Also, there must have been some light, perhaps from a flashlight, headlights, etc. for the killer to have shot both victims with sufficient accuracy. Seems it would be difficult to do in total darkness. That road had to be pretty dark at that hour. No street lights, no houses or other buildings nearby.

For our ballistics experts: how many rounds could that .357 Magnum hold? Did the killer have to stop and reload? Were there any stray shots that missed?

One reason I ask this is based on a quote from a previous sheriff in one of the linked articles here. When discussing the primary suspect, he implied the guy had a reputation for drinking a lot. He was pulled over for a DUI when his car was searched. On the mixed poly exam results, the sheriff said (paraphrasing) "he drinks so much he very well could have killed them and doesn't remember it".

The mention of total darkness gave me an idea, and I went and checked. If I read the tables accurately, August 9, 1976 was a full moon. Some people have good night sight, too.