Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

It seems that it's not a case of just ticking it off a list for her. It doesn't seem to be unusual for her to go back to the same mountain more than once. From facebook post on 12th Nov:

Alright, that put me back in my box.
Frankly, I'm so far from understanding how anyone can climb the same mountain on successive days that it's obviously pointless for me to try to second guess ED's movements or motives or mentality. She must have reserves of physical energy and mental stoicism beyond my comprehension.

I'm resigning from the case. Will check back in Spring to see if there are any developments.
 
I’ve been thinking about the Refuge. Was Esther hesitant to stay there for some reason?

My Perspective may be way off because I have never engaged in this type of sport, but I would be wary of being alone with a stranger in a very secluded area. I will chat with strangers in a crowded supermarket, but not one stranger alone in a deserted parking lot.

If Esther was seeing hunters in the area...or a lone stranger on the trail, might she have had second thoughts two nights in a row? Suppose she is there and someone who makes her uncomfortable arrives, could she sleep? She certainly couldn’t easily leave in the dark and if it’s someone unstable, would leaving set them off?

Dan has described the area as wide and open. My thought is that I’d have preferred to find somewhere off the trail, where I wouldn’t be seen, and set up the tent. I’d feel more secure that night being hidden away.

I wonder how far off the trails they searched for her.

But then I dismiss this theory because she was comfortable hitching rides with strangers. Dan says she was only 1 1/2 hrs from a road. Might she have tried to hitch to town? But why? She wasn’t going to pay for an accommodation and it would have been nightfall by then.
 
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Back to the mystery figure in the van...

I think the -Olive explanation is farcical and a great post was made earlier that underscored that point. So why would they offer such a story to the public to explain the sighting? Why not say..,the witness was mistaken?

I think the reason they did not say that is because they know the witness was NOT mistaken...hence, the cover story.

So what was their motivation? Maybe carelessness? Maybe they had left the van unsecured and a vagrant or a drunk was sleeping it off inside. Did they send someone over immediately or just wait the three days to impound it? It appears the intruder, if there was one, was in the van over three hours.

Maybe they were watching the van and cid not want the intruder to know he or she had been spotted.

Did the witness report this at 10pm that night and were police dispatched immediately? Or not till the next day.

Are all 0f Esther’s extra clothes, shoes, etc accounted for that she would have left in the van? I’ve even considered robbery as a motive. Esther had expensive equipment. Are there second hand shops that resell equipment like this in Benasque or nearby towns. If someone had her van key, did they go there to see what else she might have and foolishly fell asleep?
 
If she was worried about being caught breaking lockdown rules in France, she may have been hesitant about the camper being in Spain and not being allowed to return to get it.

If she had been caught breaking the lockdown rules in France ~IMO a big IF~ she would have been sent back to where she came from. To Spain.
Meanwhile in Spain, Esther had informed LE that she would be gone for 2 or 3 days and that her van would still be parked there.

IMO she had the LEgal issues covered.
 
If she had been caught breaking the lockdown rules in France ~IMO a big IF~ she would have been sent back to where she came from. To Spain.
Meanwhile in Spain, Esther had informed LE that she would be gone for 2 or 3 days and that her van would still be parked there.

IMO she had the LEgal issues covered.
I still think she was hesitant and vague..."might dip into France".
 
There is a huge amount of well-argued detail in your post, RedHaus, almost all of which I agree with. The only bit I would quibble with is the bit I have left un-snipped above. Given the amount of publicity the case has had in both Spain and France, I think it would be very difficult for Esther to have gone unnoticed for this length of time in the way and in the areas that you talk about.

On the other hand, Esther could quite easily have remained incognito all this time if she had had help from a willing third party.

BBM
Hi @Normal Norm,

The idea from Redhouse that ED could be suffering from Dissociative Fugue explains so many details we've puzzled over. Now you, @Normal Norm, have added an explanation as to why she may have managed to remain hidden from the public.
Great team work, you two.

@RedHaus provides links to the disappearance of Hannah Upp, who suffers from episodes of Dissociative Disorder. She is currently missing, for the third time.

I agree with @RedHaus her case is well worth studying as a way to understand a similarly plausible explanation for ED's disappearance.

During Hannah Upp's widely publicized disappearance in New York city, it was verified she was seen multiple times.

In an Apple store, where she checked her email, she was asked if she was the missing teacher. She answered no.

Below, reports of HU being seen whilst missing. Snipped from a lengthy article about her in The New Yorker: How a Young Woman Lost Her Identity

"Two days after Hannah was seen at the Apple Store, she was spotted at a Starbucks in SoHo. By the time the police arrived, she had walked out the back door. The police recorded sightings of her at five New York Sports Clubs, all of them near midtown, where the detective on the case presumed she had gone to shower. In an article about her disappearance, the Times wrote, “It was as if the city had simply opened wide and swallowed her whole.”

Initially, I wondered how she could login to her email if she didn't know who she was. I read (in a more credible publication than Daily Mail cited below) some habitual functions can be performed by those in a fugue state; eg. entering email address and password, but I now forget where that was stated. But below, snipped from a Daily Mail article about Hannah App, Dr. David Spiegal explains:

"Dr. David Spiegel of Stanford University has devoted his career to understanding dissociative fugue. He explains to DailyMail.com that humans have two primary types of memory: episodic and procedural. 'Episodic memory is you remembering who you had dinner with last night while procedural memory is remembering how to type on your keyboard.' These memories are stored in different parts of the human brain which explains how Upp was capable of logging into her Gmail account at the Apple Store. 'It's not that surprising that she would some procedural memories without the specific recall of who she was and when she last went to that place."
Hannah Upp missing teacher suffers dissociative fugue amnesia in St Thomas during a hurricane | Daily Mail Online

Another interesting description of HU's use of her phone is also in the above article:

"Another parallel can be drawn between Upp's three disappearances. Prior to the 2008 fugue, Upp communicated with nobody on her phone. Her bank statement revealed that she has gone to see a movie during this time but had no recollection of it. Similarly in 2013, Upp stopped using her phone 24 hours before the time she vanished. Later Upp would examine some of the text messages she sent in the few days leading up to that time and Bellus told The New Yorker: 'She could remember sending some of the texts, but then there came a point where she said, 'I don't remember writing any of this.'
BBM Perhaps ED sent her last texts to DC whilst in a fugue state. It could explain why she is vague about her plans. She may even not have really known who she was texting, and was performing an habitual function, from her procedural memory, when, for example, she added her loving phrases.

From the Merck Manual @RedHaus quoted upthread, we read that those suffering from Dissociative Fugue may create a new identity and travel far from home, all the while appearing and acting normal.

From this theory, ED may now be far from the Pyrenees. Although she'd be identified when crossing a nation's border, since we'd expect all borders to have received alerts, she could be in a EU country where there is scant or even no public knowledge she is a missing person.

If the authorities involved in her disappearances as yet have no verifiable cause for ED's disappearance, I hope they have considered this theory.
If DC is reading this thread, I trust he receives some measure of solace and of hope, if he feels this hypothesis is potentially a valid one.

I have no idea what happened to ED. I'm not a mental-health professional and even if I were, I'd make no attempt to diagnose a patient without being in their presence. But from studying the HU case, IMO, it's possible ED suddenly entered a fugue state some time either after or before her disappearance.

She may have created a new identity, announced it to a new friend, and they are together, in isolation from Covid, anywhere at all in the EU.
 
Am not quite fully getting the fugue state but I have left a long term marriage so can bring some perspective from that background. You don't necessarily think you are not functioning properly but you arent. You don't necessarily want to hurt someone but know that you are. There is confusion or rather unsurity.

She didn't want France he did. *advertiser censored* let him have France as well as the books the van the business just let me free.

Doesn't phase me at all that she hadn't accessed bank account. I didn't

If you want out you want out. If you want space you make space.

IF she pulled the plug on their relationship and that's a a big if the material things matter nowt. This is the woman who took guidance from a rainbow. Not being derogatory about her stating her character as I see it and relate to it ...material things matter nothing they can be replaced. And that is also why I don't think she died by her own hand. She believed in something greater than herself be it rainbows or whatever. Something would come good. And also why I think she asked people for fruit. Not that she always needed it but just to affirm to herself that people can be also believed in.

I like Esther.
 
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Very well articulated theory, and I think it’s definitely a possibility...but I think at some point, there has to be third party involvement for her to successfully stay away this long.

I’m assuming nothing was taken from the van...extra clothes, shoes, etc when police searched it. She has accessed no money, used no charge cards. Now she could have sold some of her expensive equipment, but I think there would have been reports of that. IMO, if she’s alive, someone else is facilitating this disappearance. Maybe a criminal act or maybe just another of the helpful people that seem to often rescue Esther.


BBM

The rescue aspect, which I don't think we've discussed before, all of a sudden seems pervasive to me, as you point out. Perhaps your idea can be extrapolated: ED would do anything to be rescued. Take big risks. Perhaps ED encountered someone on 11/21-11/22-11/23 who, in fact (or as she saw it) offered the chance of a rescue. Perhaps one reason for asking for food was to test another person's capacity for rescue. Same with hitchhiking. Same with this whole risky solo trip... she put herself in a situation where surely people would rescue and help her because she surely couldn't do it all by herself.

Once I started to look at those few days from the lens of "rescue", it all started to look different to me.

I think in those last days, ED developed a strategy for being rescued. It may only have been in her head (and not someone else's intent or offer), but that would have shaped what she chose to do.
So, in those days, what would "rescue" have looked like to her?
 
She may have created a new identity, announced it to a new friend, and they are together, in isolation from Covid, anywhere at all in the EU.

That's an interesting point which I hadn't considered before: the current covid situation makes for a perfect time to disappear if that's your intention.
The streets are quiet with everyone staying at home more. Meaning less interactions when you do go out and also less suspicion of someone hiding in a building and rarely leaving.
Everyone is wearing a facemask (in most countries, I think?) which both helps to hide your face but also muffle your voice a bit and make it harder to spot an accent.
Nobody has any visitors so if you're staying with someone there's less chance that one of their friends/family will find you.
 
Dan has described the area as wide and open. My thought is that I’d have preferred to find somewhere off the trail, where I wouldn’t be seen, and set up the tent. I’d feel more secure that night being hidden away.
Snipped for focus.

I have a different logic about this when I'm out for the night. If I were worried about another, specific, person, yes, I would attempt to conceal my night spot. Otherwise, I'd be in plain view. In the area where ED was hiking, in those conditions, especially hiking solo, I would have put my tent right next to the trail. I actually once walked past a dry tent-shaped spot early in the morning where someone had put up their tent exactly in the trail (they evidently pretty much fell asleep while they were hiking lol).

Try this: I don't know if any of you have had occasion to overnight by yourself in a WalMart parking lot? Some folks try to get a dark spot. Me? I want to be under the brilliant lights in a spot where all of those fab Walmart spy cameras can see me.

If ED had felt unsafe because of someone else on the trail, she should have hiked right out immediately. She could have done that at any time. That's what headlamps are for.
 

Following along your line of thinking...thank you!

Let’s speculate using the theory that Esther does not want to go home. She doesn’t want to discuss or argue or hash it out with Dan. But she cannot extend again or stay up in the mountains forever and colder weather, snow, etc could be coming any day. Perhaps Dan has been inundating her with messages, overwhelming her with insistence she come home. How overwhelming do Dan’s needs feel to her?

Thank you, Inspector Motive for given us important personal insight. Sometimes getting out seems like life or death, doesn’t it.

He says she could have just asked for space. Maybe so. But maybe, speculating again, she felt she never could win an argument, especially that one. She says on FB she wanted to go to Spain; they went to France. The dogs are gone; was that a mutual decision? ...”for one reason or another.”

What do we seem to know about Esther?

We know she believes that if she seeks help, kind people will rescue her.

We know she wears “her heart on her sleeve”even to the point of confiding in strangers.

IMO, she possesses a childlike quality that might facilitate finding the help she needs from strangers.

I think it’s possible that she met someone to help her in those last days of her trip. She confided her issues, her circumstances, etc. culminating in a plan worked out in the 21st. Arrangements needed to be made however. Perhaps the friend hiked out to make those arrangements. Perhaps they agreed to meet again the next day...at that strange late time...on top of the Pic and proceed to wherever that person could offer Esther shelter. In this theory, Esther says her goodbyes, ditches the phone, and off she goes.

IMO I think “rescue’ to Esther might have been to get very far away from any emotional strings that always pulled her back to a relationship that she now wanted to leave. Maybe just some help to stay away until she could set up an independent life and then return. Perhaps hoping that the shock of her actions could convince Dan to let her go.
 
The more I read, the more you had all convinced me the police were lying and it was all a conspiracy. But here I am posting a photo from the papers and there is literally no one there ... it is the worst tabloid article ever and some apprentice took the phone call and paid out (before seeing the photo)so they ran with it as a page filler
 

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The more I read, the more you had all convinced me the police were lying and it was all a conspiracy. But here I am posting a photo from the papers and there is literally no one there ... it is the worst tabloid article ever and some apprentice took the phone call and paid out (before seeing the photo)so they ran with it as a page filler
Now I think I see the brown haired head...
 
The more I read, the more you had all convinced me the police were lying and it was all a conspiracy. But here I am posting a photo from the papers and there is literally no one there ... it is the worst tabloid article ever and some apprentice took the phone call and paid out (before seeing the photo)so they ran with it as a page filler


The images between the bedcovers and the wall (whatever they may be) reminded me of this:

animated-smileys-holidays-water-052.gif.pagespeed.ce.wg_Oy7QP5p.gif




Oh well....
 
The more I read, the more you had all convinced me the police were lying and it was all a conspiracy. But here I am posting a photo from the papers and there is literally no one there ... it is the worst tabloid article ever and some apprentice took the phone call and paid out (before seeing the photo)so they ran with it as a page filler

The photo is rubbish I agree and shows nothing . Whether the witness statement is wrong about seeing a person lying down in the van is another matter.
 
Could this all just have blown out of control? Remember the couple that disappeared from Wheaton Il. years ago. They had no idea that they would be come a huge media story and that frightened them from making contact.

Esther told him she might not have a signal late on the 22nd. On the 25th Dan alerts authorities, on the 26th a massive search begins. And almost immediately this is an international story. If it’s an accident, things moved slowly...if a planned disappearance, she didn’t even have four days.

I wonder how I’d feel if less than a week after I set off for some freedom, I learned I was the center of such a huge media storm? Coming forward would mean laying bare all my reasons, all my fears and implicating perhaps a kind friend who’d helped me. Just trying to imagine how someone would feel...if, in this imaginary scenario, she did not want to justify all her reasons for leaving to Dan, would she want to do it on such an enormously public way?
 

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