UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #13

[MEKON]

I agree @MEKON. CCTV can be analysed to death but if someone things that the person is Ray then the question has to be asked-"Could it possibly be him"

Perhaps it could if someone else went to the Algarve on his behalf and managed to fool customs officers an both sides of the journey.

It's a possibility and people or people's have certainly been 'lucky or clever' enough to at least stall their prosecution

I'm sure the leg behaviour of the 'Dark alley person' would determine if its someone or not

 

[oudzuid]

It's a possibility and people or people's have certainly been 'lucky or clever' enough to at least stall their prosecution

I'm sure the leg behaviour of the 'Dark alley person' would determine if its someone or not

What many have not picked up on here and even those who have visited HP themselves is that the footpath in shoy on CCTV has a bit of a Camber going on.
I noticed when I visited last year that I found myself walking weirdly at this juncture.
I say this as it was a very obvious thing that hit me when I wen to Heworth and it does surprise me that others that have said they have also been have not mentioned this.

It causes you to walk unnaturally.

 

[MEKON]

I agree @MEKON. CCTV can be analysed to death but if someone things that the person is Ray then the question has to be asked-"Could it possibly be him"

Perhaps it could if someone else went to the Algarve on his behalf and managed to fool customs officers an both sides of the journey.

'Yep i see where you are coming from'......

So you're suggesting that Ray was 'Night time and Day time Dark Alleyway person'. And you're saying a Mr Smith for example altered their appearance to look like Ray. Thus Mr Smith went on holiday(pretending to be Ray). But; Ray stayed in York?




Can I elaborate on that!?

Could Ray be just 'Nighttime Dark Alleyway person' and then gone on holiday as arranged. But Mr Smith has been 'Day time Alley person' and Mr Smith has dressed up in order to look like Ray as Night time Alley person'

That would throw the scent off anyone thinking Ray was involved. Because how could Dark Alley person be Ray if he was on holiday!?

 

[Popejohn3]

Perhaps Claudia worked 'cash in hand' somewhere? Maybe a barperson? I'm sure it has been mentioned there was a connection with Horses (i'll credit MajorLang's work for that) . So did Claudia have a 'cash in hand' job working with Horse's

Her friends would have mentioned this to the police .

 

[MEKON]

Her friends would have mentioned this to the police police

I can see where your coming from and you would think her friends would know. But like Claudia's family; did they know everything.

However you feel about D.O's revelation 1 year later that Claudia had a new boyfriend; if it was true, did Claudia's family and friends know about this

Additionally; the Police seemed as if they did not know all of Claudia's past and present Boyfriends. Thus; if the Police with all their skills do not know. There may be a good chance Claudia's family and friends do not know everything about Claudia's life

 

[Popejohn3]

I can see where your coming from and you would think her friends would know. But like Claudia's family; did they know everything.

However you feel about D.O's revelation 1 year later that Claudia had a new boyfriend; if it was true, did Claudia's family and friends know about this

Additionally; the Police seemed as if they did not know all of Claudia's past and present Boyfriends. Thus; if the Police with all their skills do not know. There may be a good chance Claudia's family and friends do not know everything about Claudia's life

You can take that as a given !
Even if kids live with you ! You don’t always know what they get up to these internet days .

 

[Andyboy]

Did Ray go on holiday by himself ? When did he book the flight ?
I say leave Ray alone

As far as I'm aware Ray was out of the country when Claudia went missing, that's my point, the moment he is out of the way she dissapers, coincidence, maybe, maybe not

 

[Blonderabbit]

Just a coincidence - would all of Heworth cover for him ..... no way... did the police arrest him? No. No evidence in her house - it’s simple - nothing happened in her house (well not her death anyway) she left her house alive of her own free will sometime on the 18th March 2009 through her front door. Simple

 

[Andyboy]

Just a coincidence - would all of Heworth cover for him ..... no way... did the police arrest him? No. No evidence in her house - it’s simple - nothing happened in her house (well not her death anyway) she left her house alive of her own free will sometime on the 18th March 2009 through her front door. Simple

 

[Andyboy]

Im not exactly overwhelmed with evidence she left through her front door, no witnesses no cctv

 

[Andyboy]

And the police doubtless didn't arrest Ray because they knew he was out of the country when she went awol

 

[MEKON]

Just a coincidence - would all of Heworth cover for him ..... no way... did the police arrest him? No. No evidence in her house - it’s simple - nothing happened in her house (well not her death anyway) she left her house alive of her own free will sometime on the 18th March 2009 through her front door. Simple

It wouldn't take the whole of the community to cover up the act of a local.

It could be a circle of people from a particular social group based on religion,politics or freemasonry for example. The reason could involve fraud,drugs or something they 'have' on an individual

However; in this case has the social group had a common purpose of protecting their businesses or reputation. It could be their protecting both

Maybe it involves a social group that has been bribed. It is certainly possible that several people have taken a 'cold view' that Claudia was 'out of hand' and felt sorry for the perpetrator. Had other people been bribed in the past

Furthermore; it could be that 'helpers' have been paid or threatened by the main perpetrator to get involved. Additionally; have the 'helpers' themselves been bribed by the main perpetrator to help out

 

[Angleterre]

@Popejohn3 I understand the reason they would not wish to do this is under PACE guidelines.
If they show the face then at a trial the defendant barrister could claim that this face was shown in MSM and so too easy for people to say-Thats him.

However, If they only show the person where the face is not recognisable but other characteristics:

Build
Hair Colour
Stature
Walking style
Walking habits

And someone comes forward and says "That's my husband, wife or Girlfriend" then they have a far stronger prosecution case.

I hope that this helps.
Perhaps @Angleterre Who is a verified Law Enforcement member can comment on my points?

You are exactly right
It is identification versus recognition and as you rightly say, by showing it a nd if it ends up at court then lawyers will argue that you are mistaken in your identification of him and that’s because you have seen his image displayed in the press and it’s merely recognition etc
Look at R v Turnbull identification rules

 

[Vixey]

Perhaps he found the place toxic.

It would appear he had great concern and upset over Jim! wonder how he got away with tormenting a close friend of Suzy and Jen in their local x

 

[Vixey]

The pattern of behaviour 2 days in a row by 'White jkt person and Dark Alley person' (who appear to be the same 2 people involved) would surely mean the claim that Ray's ability to 'dodge cameras etc' and be nightime 'Dark Alley person' is an impossibility

Due to where ray profile picks were taken,I wonder if the person who recognised Claudia in hartlepool was ray himself x

 

[Vixey]

As far as I'm aware Ray was out of the country when Claudia went missing, that's my point, the moment he is out of the way she dissapers, coincidence, maybe, maybe not

There was another person by the name Ray webster who drank in the nags pub x

 

[Blonderabbit]

Im not exactly overwhelmed with evidence she left through her front door, no witnesses no cctv

Similarly her back door

 

[oudzuid]

You are exactly right
It is identification versus recognition and as you rightly say, by showing it a nd if it ends up at court then lawyers will argue that you are mistaken in your identification of him and that’s because you have seen his image displayed in the press and it’s merely recognition etc
Look at R v Turnbull identification rules

Thanks @Angleterre Always good to get your view to assist here. Appreciated.

 

[oudzuid]

Just a coincidence - would all of Heworth cover for him ..... no way... did the police arrest him? No. No evidence in her house - it’s simple - nothing happened in her house (well not her death anyway) she left her house alive of her own free will sometime on the 18th March 2009 through her front door. Simple

Evidence regarding your assumption please? @Blonderabbit

 

[curiosity2]

It would appear he had great concern and upset over Jim! wonder how he got away with tormenting a close friend of Suzy and Jen in their local x

Do you know the reason for his bad relationship with Jim?