UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #13

[Vixey]

Answers on a postcard.

The microsite states -
18 March, 14:47 – Claudia walks home and appears to post something.

the next entry is;
18 March, 19:27 – 21:12 Claudia uses her telephone.

Nothing in between.

It has been suggested a childminder saw her at 3.10pm on her way home, its also been suggested the sighting was at 2.50pm by @ourkid. I know there was a suggestion the child minder had seen her on a different day and not the 18th, is there a possibility because the police (may not) be able to verify this sighting and the time so there for its not on the timeline?
It has also been suggested Claudia left her house to post a letter, after arriving home she went back out. Can this be verified? Do we know for sure she re-entered her house?

If she did see the childminder at 3.10pm on the 18th could this of been as she walked home from work, did she have her rucksack and could she of gone to the nags. When the calls were made in the evening could she have already been elsewhere? I feel the reason there is no evidence of a crime is because the crime scene is away from her home. The back alley was not searched for five years, every tom dick and harry could of contaminated her rear garden and the alley over that period. plus the evidence suggests she left by the front door - her slippers there rucksack gone. No signs of a struggle, no screams. The police have evidence "others" were in her house however I do not think it can be time stamped as to when it may have been.

Do you feel the skip from 14:47 and 19:27 is they suspect the in-between lift and sightings to be untrue. Therefore Claudia may have never made it home? x

 

[Vixey]

When I first heard JK say she had hoped Claudia was “gone before she hit the ground” my interpretation was this...Hit the Ground Running: Escape and Evasion Behind Enemy Lines | ABMC Education Different locations, (Areas) A phrase has a different meaning. How did others take this ?

 

[Popejohn3]

When I first heard JK say she had hoped Claudia was “gone before she hit the ground” my interpretation was this...Hit the Ground Running: Escape and Evasion Behind Enemy Lines | ABMC Education Different locations, (Areas) A phrase has a different meaning. How did others take this ?

I take that to mean ‘I hope she did not suffer ‘

 

[Blonderabbit]

I found this part interesting:-

I have a record pre the microsite change that the following was posted on same site:

"3:05 PM Claudia caught on CCTV at the junction of Heworth Road and East Parade" NYP Microsite.

When you view the interview with the chidminder on Getty Images she looks to me to be pointing right to left left when speaking to the interviewer was she was suggesting CL had crossed the road from the costcutters side to the other side of the road? If this was the case and she had crossed the road at some point it might well be that she had been caught on cctv?

Just my thoughts.

which camera would she be caught on?

 

[Vixey]

I take that to mean ‘I hope she did not suffer ‘

Funny how we take things said differently! Thanks pope x

 

[Blonderabbit]

I think ( and I’m sure he’ll correct me if I’m wrong) BR is quoting from The Medium post but that post is not Gospel it is the work of a very keen member of the public who ( probably) started it of as his own record and because he got fed up answering questions, he put it out there.
But I’m sure he’ll agree with me it is not Gospel but merrily a work in progress ![/Q

I think ( and I’m sure he’ll correct me if I’m wrong) BR is quoting from The Medium post but that post is not Gospel it is the work of a very keen member of the public who ( probably) started it of as his own record and because he got fed up answering questions, he put it out there.
But I’m sure he’ll agree with me it is not Gospel but merrily a work in progress !

if you are going to put words in my mouth please ask first - check your facts FYI I am not quoting from medium

 

[Blonderabbit]

Do you feel the skip from 14:47 and 19:27 is they suspect the in-between lift and sightings to be untrue. Therefore Claudia may have never made it home? x

she 100% arrived home according to nyp.

 

[MEKON]

Absolutely agree, either involved or a distraction/diversion imo x

What would the probability in Mathematical terms of 2 people that are seemingly dressed the same appearing 2 days running in 'near enough same area' ?

And on top of that, all 4 contributions include the people travelling in the same directions at the same time. Its as if they have timed it with a few practices beforehand

Planned!?

I wonder If any of the locals had seen anyone in different clothing before the 18th of March acting as If they were on manoeuvres performing a drill ?

 

[Popejohn3]

I stand corrected apologies BR

 

[MEKON]

When I first heard JK say she had hoped Claudia was “gone before she hit the ground” my interpretation was this...Hit the Ground Running: Escape and Evasion Behind Enemy Lines | ABMC Education Different locations, (Areas) A phrase has a different meaning. How did others take this ?

Was it said on camera ? If it was then I'm sure a Psychologist might have an idea on the thoughts behind the phrase

 

[keep-it-real]

which camera would she be caught on?

For confirmation of that I think you would have to ask Cold Case to confirm which camera NYP meant in that particular website statement.

 

[Vixey]

she 100% arrived home according to nyp.

Thank you, was not sure if you was questioning this. How are they sure of this do you think, if we take away sightings from the equation. I feel Claudia was at home, only questioning my own thoughts also x

 

[Vixey]

Was it said on camera ? If it was then I'm sure a Psychologist might have an idea on the thoughts behind the phrase

It was, yes I wonder and would like to hear thoughts from someone qualified on this.Interesting phrase imo x

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Wonder if the female who reported a altercation around the back entrance that evening resulted in Dai,s thoughts carried through the back alley ?

I'm completely missing this information. Interesting!

 

[Angleterre]

Thanks @Angleterre Always good to get your view to assist here. Appreciated.

You are very welcome and I will always help if I can , wherever I can , and I thank you for having faith in me.

 

[MEKON]

When I first heard JK say she had hoped Claudia was “gone before she hit the ground” my interpretation was this...Hit the Ground Running: Escape and Evasion Behind Enemy Lines | ABMC Education Different locations, (Areas) A phrase has a different meaning. How did others take this ?

It was, yes I wonder and would like to hear thoughts from someone qualified on this.Interesting phrase imo x

Hi Vixey; was the phrase you mentioned referring to the content of someone's dream?

I know its not exactly referring to your phrase but............



Source : Dreams About Falling: Possible Interpretations and How to Stop Them

What if you dream of someone else falling?
There’s not much scientific research to explain the meaning of a dream where someone else is falling.

It’s possible that you’re deeply concerned about someone you know whose life is spinning out of control. Or maybe you’re worried that someone is leaving you, emotionally or physically.

Think about the person in the dream and what they represent to you.




I'm not a Psychologist, but I'm sure a Freudian or a specialist from another theoretical branch of Psychology; could explain the exact reasons behind someone using the exact phrase you referred to. Being: .....“gone before she hit the ground”


Especially it is taken from their experience within a dream they had

 

[Angleterre]

@Angleterre can I ask. If the case did drag on for a similar length of time that has already passed is this a case where at some point the details held on file would have the restricted public access lifted...
Can I ask for an answer to this in two parts please
1. If the case included some details or documents that were secret
2. If they did not.

Also is there anyway the public are able to find out if a case which is still open does include details/documents which would be considered secret.

Taken from Wiki
Declassification is the process of documents that used to be classified as secret ceasing to be so restricted, often under the principle of freedom of information. Procedures for declassification vary by country. Papers may be withheld without being classified as secret, and eventually made available.
Declassification - Wikipedia

Just looking at all the options
IMO

@keep-it-real
It’s an easy and straightforward answer all round, irrespective of answering it in two parts because the answer is the same for both and that is a NO ...
Any case that is still under investigation, not withstanding the length of time elapsed since the initial crime was committed , will remain confidential and a subject access request under the FOI Act would not give up any information or details pertaining to it. This is to protect the integrity of the investigation and also because there may be detail(s) contained within the case files, even something which on first inspection, seems totally trivial and innocuous, but it could be that small detail that only the perpetrator would know/be aware of and therefore it’s important to maintain the cohesion and integrity of the file in the event that a perpetrator is arrested, arraigned and put before a Court of law and a subsequent Crown Court Trial ensues.
It’s probably not the answer that you were hoping for but I’m afraid that unless the perpetrator is identified, we will never know the details.

As an aside, if a perpetrator was identified and charged and went to trial at Crown Court, it may be the case that some investigative strategies and lines of enquiry undertaken, are so sensitive ( ie.may identify high risk under a scored Risk Assessment to a person/witness engaged within the investigation, may reveal Police investigation tactics , may identify a potential police informant ( CHIS - covert human intelligence source) etc), that even upon conviction and sentence, some details within the case files will NEVER be released and will be subject to PII ( Public Interest Immunity). I hope that helps and answers any further questions that you may have. Feel free to ask anytime and if I can answer it, I will. Take care and stay safe in these covid times .

 

[Angleterre]

Hi Vixey; was the phrase you mentioned referring to the content of someone's dream?

I know its not exactly referring to your phrase but............



Source : Dreams About Falling: Possible Interpretations and How to Stop Them

What if you dream of someone else falling?
There’s not much scientific research to explain the meaning of a dream where someone else is falling.

It’s possible that you’re deeply concerned about someone you know whose life is spinning out of control. Or maybe you’re worried that someone is leaving you, emotionally or physically.

Think about the person in the dream and what they represent to you.




I'm not a Psychologist, but I'm sure a Freudian or a specialist from another theoretical branch of Psychology; could explain the exact reasons behind someone using the exact phrase you referred to. Being: .....“gone before she hit the ground”


Especially it is taken from their experience within a dream they had

@MEKON
I’m not qualified in this arena but I am a Senior Investigative Officer and I have interviewed murder suspects many many times.
Since first hearing JK saying this and having now had the luxury of time to consider the meaning of such a statement and trying to interpret it, to me, and this is purely MOO, it speaks to me as though JK knows that CL has passed and how and was either present to witness CL’s death or was told by a person who was present when CL’s death occurred. It’s possible that she (CL) fell/was pushed from a height and JK’s comments are referring to CL falling and JK hoping that she didn’t suffer because she hopes that CL was not aware /had blacked out to the point of unconsciousness/ adrenaline levels were so high and subsequently took over, to the point where CL wouldn’t have felt anything when she hit the ground . I am probably so far away from the actuality of what happened to CL for this theory to be laughable BUT having considered it for sometime and then added into the mix, my experience of communicating with perpetrators and their NVC’s ( non verbal communications ) as well as listening to and challenging their spoken accounts of what happened , their personal perspective and then breaking their explanations down and micro managing their account and micro probing what is said , that it comes across to me as being potentially the case that JK knows exactly who snatched CL, when , where, who, what and how ? (5WH). And that JK knows what happened to CL and where she rests. Incredulous theory???? Maybe
Again, I stress, all MOO JK as I’m aware that you occasionally drop in here with us at Websleuths.

 

[keep-it-real]

@keep-it-real
It’s an easy and straightforward answer all round, irrespective of answering it in two parts because the answer is the same for both and that is a NO ...
Any case that is still under investigation, not withstanding the length of time elapsed since the initial crime was committed , will remain confidential and a subject access request under the FOI Act would not give up any information or details pertaining to it. This is to protect the integrity of the investigation and also because there may be detail(s) contained within the case files, even something which on first inspection, seems totally trivial and innocuous, but it could be that small detail that only the perpetrator would know/be aware of and therefore it’s important to maintain the cohesion and integrity of the file in the event that a perpetrator is arrested, arraigned and put before a Court of law and a subsequent Crown Court Trial ensues.
It’s probably not the answer that you were hoping for but I’m afraid that unless the perpetrator is identified, we will never know the details.

As an aside, if a perpetrator was identified and charged and went to trial at Crown Court, it may be the case that some investigative strategies and lines of enquiry undertaken, are so sensitive ( ie.may identify high risk under a scored Risk Assessment to a person/witness engaged within the investigation, may reveal Police investigation tactics , may identify a potential police informant ( CHIS - covert human intelligence source) etc), that even upon conviction and sentence, some details within the case files will NEVER be released and will be subject to PII ( Public Interest Immunity). I hope that helps and answers any further questions that you may have. Feel free to ask anytime and if I can answer it, I will. Take care and stay safe in these covid times .

Thankyou for making everything absolutely clear and adding the last paragraph which covers what my next question to you would have been.

 

[Blonderabbit]

Was it said on camera ? If it was then I'm sure a Psychologist might have an idea on the thoughts behind the phrase

I have talked to vixey before and I think we both feel its a curious statement. generally when people are adlibbing they are creating pictures in their mind - you wonder what she was picturing, probably innocent. I look at her in the early days, just after Claudias vanishing, I look at her now - a very different JK. Similarly S.C. I am on the fence with them. because they are so close statistically there is a high chance of some kind of guilt spanning from a knowledge of to a hand in. They behave in ways which draws me to suspect, however its unthinkable. If it turns out they are guilty of anything it will be shocking and in my opinion should face similar terms to the perp/perps.