OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #59

[Betty P]

BBM
Not seeing it, the defense attorneys praising the 4 Wagners. Yes FW's attorney did in fact sing her praises by doing those videos at her house but I'm not seeing it with the Wagner 4.

I never heard George's attorney compliment him including at his most recent Bond Hearing. At his preliminary Bond Hearing the only praise was that George has no court record or even a DMV ticket. (I think someone on here actually did find a DMV ticket for him). At one point George's attorney said George wants to be in solitary to read the Bible and do his own thing, fact, not praising him.

Angela's attorneys said in court that they told her to stop talking to her mother. Jake's attorney told him to quit worrying about a lady staring at him from the court gallery then told him "I'm out of here and so are you." Billy's attorneys said Billy wants more time with them in person and is frustrated by it.

I don't see any of this as praise. Plus there is a gag order, none of the attorneys can even talk about the Wagners in public.

As far as "gossiping" people actually helping the Wagner's defense, I have never seen anyone quoted in MSM or on news videos saying the Wagners are innocent and are Christians of faith except for FW. Almost 1 1/2 years before they were arrested their Ohio attorney and AK minister said some positive things about them to the Cincinnati Enquirer.

Yes there is always gossip on SM but no one has formed a Facebook page that says "Free The Wagners" or "The Wagners Are Innocent" etc...

There has been praise of FW by attorneys and in the news media, as well as favorable news coverage of Fredericka's claims that her family is innocent. We've heard a lot in the news about how she feared for Billy's safety, how she loves her family and about Jake's "marriage" to Hannah. She's had a lot of coverage in the news media in which she earnestly and repeatedly claims her family is innocent. The favorable coverage of the Wagners is accomplished with FW as the surrogate for all of the family members who are on trial. When she and her lawyers praise her Christian life living close to the cross, we're to assume her family is the same.

As for the Wagner's attorneys, when in court, they treat the accused with the utmost courtesy and respect. Social media speaks for itself, focusing more on pointing fingers at the victims and others.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

The "gag" order was placed on the Wagner 4 as well as their attorneys, and Fred and her attorney... but since she is no longer under court supervision her gag order is no longer valid.

The podcast participants and general public are under no such order. That would be asinine. If such an order could be issued as a blanket gag order lol, everyone (including us) would be screwed when it comes to discussion of this case.


"A gag order has been issued in the case, preventing attorneys and law enforcement from discussing it."

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Is there any way to verify that the persons being interviewed are actually who they claim to be?

Should everything they say be taken at face value if they are not verified or known insiders who would have factual info from LE or the prosecution? Just a rhetorical question,not questioning the Mod.

Remember, the judge has placed a gag order on this case. Absolutely no one associated with the case or suspects is allowed to speak about it. Yet there are apparently rumors being spread via this "podcast" that no insider to the case would be allowed to discuss.

JMO, in light of the gag order issued by Judge Deering I have no intention of listening to or discussing anything revealed in that podcast. Its a long time before Jake's trial begins. The next time we're likely to learn any new factual information will be at his next motion hearing.

BBM
I agree Betty. There is just no way of verifying who a voice over the internet really is. It could be me, except if it was me it would be a very heavily accented Okie voice you hear. Can I get a hail yow here? JMO

 

[FrankieT]

I have always thought that Reader was ready to make arrests early on. He always seemed to be held back. It could be there was not sufficient evidence at the time even if BCI agreed with him. Looking back, knowing what we know now, LM was correct.
You had it right early on as to whom was guilty. I balked at the Ws being guilty because I couldn’t believe anyone would do something that drastic and inhumane for custody.

I'm with you Dudly. I could hardly sleep at night (I'm in another state, but live in the country) for thinking about cartels breaking into the wrong house and killing me. There was no way I could imagine someone doing this to their own family. It still is hard to comprehend. But I do sleep better now. I have kids the ages of the victims and grand kids the ages of the babies. Horrible, just horrible.

 

[mom2chloe]

My apologies as I am late to the game because the murders were a little too close to home and the sheer number of homicides is difficult at best. Where is little Sophia assuming anyone knows? TIA!
I have purposely stayed away from this case but watched the special over the weekend. Hopefully justice is swift and I will continue to watch for that. This is a truly horrific case IMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I have always thought that Reader was ready to make arrests early on. He always seemed to be held back. It could be there was not sufficient evidence at the time even if BCI agreed with him. Looking back, knowing what we know now, LM was correct.
You had it right early on as to whom was guilty. I balked at the Ws being guilty because I couldn’t believe anyone would do something that drastic and inhumane for custody.

I think we all had it right from day one, we just couldn't wrap our heads around something so evil. It took a little longer to sink in on us that an entire family would wipe out another family for custody of one child. In Lenny's first interview the reporter asked him who he thought killed his family and why they were killed he said 'Well there is this child custody fight but I am not saying anything more than that." We knew Chris and Dana had no issues over Chris JR and Frankie had no issues over BR. RR was with both parents and one look at Hannah R's FB told us all we needed to know about who KR's father was and also that he didn't want anything to do with Hannah or his unborn baby. That is why CH stepped up and told Hannah he would be little KR's dad. Just one child under 18 left after that. SW who's parents had recently split and according to Lenny in the interview had at least a verbal confrontation the weekend prior in which PCSO was called out and according to Lenny "Treated us pretty snotty and sided with the other people in the dispute." So Reader and PCSO knew there had been some kind of dispute over custody and who was involved the prior weekend in which they had been called out on. So Reader absolutely knew and we should have listened more carefully to what Lenny said and believed that he was telling us the truth about everything. It would have saved us all hours of debate and discussion on here as to who the killers were. lol

I know that early on we kicked around that it could be a custody thing with Dana's niece RA and that maybe she would lose custody of her kids because of the charges Dana filed against her over Chris Jr, but dismissed it pretty quickly when nothing ever came up about RA ever being in danger of losing her kids. But really there were no other custody battles in play at the time of the murders.

JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

My apologies as I am late to the game because the murders were a little too close to home and the sheer number of homicides is difficult at best. Where is little Sophia assuming anyone knows? TIA!
I have purposely stayed away from this case but watched the special over the weekend. Hopefully justice is swift and I will continue to watch for that. This is a truly horrific case IMO

ITA - sadly, justice has not been quick. This thread is an amazing 59 threads long covering almost five years.

We all want the perpetrators of this truly horrific case to experience justice!

 

[CIA Team Member]

My apologies as I am late to the game because the murders were a little too close to home and the sheer number of homicides is difficult at best. Where is little Sophia assuming anyone knows? TIA!
I have purposely stayed away from this case but watched the special over the weekend. Hopefully justice is swift and I will continue to watch for that. This is a truly horrific case IMO

What "special" was aired?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I balked at it being locals at first because I couldn't believe that people in rural areas could pull off such a complex, difficult and brutal hit job. I didn't realize how many in rural areas are armed to the teeth and sometimes engage in paramilitary practice sessions, as a "hobby". These days its becoming more obvious how much of this dangerous activity is going on in rural areas with the paramilitary, white supremacy groups. Mix it in with meth use and paranoia and its a powder keg.

I knew it was not a Mexican drug cartel from the beginning. My daughter-in-law is from Mexico and I asked her what she thought. She said there was no way a Mexican drug cartel would draw that much heat down on them in the USA by killing an entire family in 4 different houses. They pretty much try to stay under the radar both here and in Mexico. She said the only way a cartel would kill family members is if a family got caught in the crossfire between two cartels or the targets family was in the house at the time they came after them and maybe not even then because it would draw too attention from the Federales. The cartels try to keep a very low profile so based on her and her family still living in Mexico's opinions I ruled out that angle pretty quickly. RSD1200 gave me plenty of food for thought when RSD talked about "Creek Justice" in that area though. Frankly I am ashamed to admit my mind leapt instantly to the Hatfield and McCoy feud. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

There has been praise of FW by attorneys and in the news media, as well as favorable news coverage of Fredericka's claims that her family is innocent. We've heard a lot in the news about how she feared for Billy's safety, how she loves her family and about Jake's "marriage" to Hannah. She's had a lot of coverage in the news media in which she earnestly and repeatedly claims her family is innocent. The favorable coverage of the Wagners is accomplished with FW as the surrogate for all of the family members who are on trial. When she and her lawyers praise her Christian life living close to the cross, we're to assume her family is the same.

As for the Wagner's attorneys, when in court, they treat the accused with the utmost courtesy and respect. Social media speaks for itself, focusing more on pointing fingers at the victims and others.

FW's attorney praising her was just that, him praising her not Billy, Angela, Jake and George.

FW hasn't said a word about them in 2 years and when she did mention them she did not say a whole lot. Chris and Billy were best friends, her family is innocent, Jake and George have faith, George lost weight, terrorists or Cartel did it and they won't find anything during the search of her property.

It is the attorneys job to treat their clients with courtesy and respect.

Yes negative things are said about them on SM and if you think that influences people then you have to believe that all the positive things said about them will also influence people.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM
Not seeing it, the defense attorneys praising the 4 Wagners. Yes FW's attorney did in fact sing her praises by doing those videos at her house but I'm not seeing it with the Wagner 4.

I never heard George's attorney praise him including at his most recent Bond Hearing. At his preliminary Bond Hearing the only praise was that George has no court record or even a DMV ticket. (I think someone on here actually did find a DMV ticket for him). At one point George's attorney said George wants to be in solitary to read the Bible and do his own thing, fact, not praising him.

Angela's attorneys said in court that they told her to stop talking to her mother. Jake's attorney told him to quit worrying about a lady staring at him from the court gallery then told him "I'm out of here and so are you." Billy's attorneys said Billy wants more time with them in person and is frustrated by it.

I don't see any of this as praise. Plus there is a gag order, none of the attorneys can even talk about the Wagners in public.

As far as people "gossiping" actually helping the Wagner's defense, I have never seen anyone quoted in MSM or on news videos saying the Wagners are innocent and are Christians of faith except for FW. Almost 1 1/2 years before they were arrested their Ohio attorney and AK minister said some positive things about them to reporter Chris Graves from the Cincinnati Enquirer.

Yes there is always gossip on SM but no one has formed a Facebook page that says "Free The Wagners" or "The Wagners Are Innocent" etc...

...2 Cents...

Early on we had people coming on here saying no way it was the W's and that they knew them in person or had business dealings with them and they were fine upstanding Christians. Even had a good sized church on their property where Fred gave out food baskets to the poor once a week at her own expense. No way they would commit such a heinous crime. Some still come on every now a then to take another shot at convincing us it wasn't the W's. JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

My apologies as I am late to the game because the murders were a little too close to home and the sheer number of homicides is difficult at best. Where is little Sophia assuming anyone knows? TIA!
I have purposely stayed away from this case but watched the special over the weekend. Hopefully justice is swift and I will continue to watch for that. This is a truly horrific case IMO

I don't think the Mods on here will allow any discussion of SW's whereabouts, but that would be a question for the Mods, not me.

What special? And which channel? I would like to watch it. TIA.

 

[NotHammerToed]

Yup! Everything seemed to change for them in July 2016.

As you can see from the Defiance Farm post, Angela acted like everything was totally normal and was all happy on her farm with future plans until later in July when suddenly she says she has to downsize alot which people do when they move away.

Before
View attachment 283950

Obviously something happened because not only did she sell off all her livestock but they put the house up for sale that September.

Why after the murders did the Wagners live as usual like nothing happened for 3 months and then suddenly decide to get rid of the Peterson Rd. property? Your right that farm was everything to her and she even had a chicken coop built for the children. Something unusual happened for her to get rid of that property.

After
View attachment 283951

Angela flat out stated that she did not want to sell her livestock but she had to sell due to "family matters" and the "family matters" obviously included Billy because he gave up his cushy life and stopped caring for his sick father to move to AK.

Something spooked them alot in July 2016 and it had to do with the murder investigation and getting far away from BCI in my opinion.

The home where the Wagners lived in Kenai, Alaska

I think the most simple of answers is they underestimated this whole event, AW probably became extremely paranoid as the heat started mounting. She set a narrative in the beginning and it quickly imploded on itself which no doubt caused her stress.

 

[mom2chloe]

What "special" was aired?

It was on Oxygen. The only episode I watched and available was Season 1 Episode 1. I will check my Hulu account to see the exact name and get back with you. I was totally engrossed as was DH and as I said I have avoided it until now.

 

[mom2chloe]

Found it! The Piketon Family Murders

 

[Cool Cats]

I think the most simple of answers is they underestimated this whole event, AW probably became extremely paranoid as the heat started mounting. She set a narrative in the beginning and it quickly imploded on itself which no doubt caused her stress.

I believe you are 100% correct..Smiley Face for you today... LOL

I was sure they left Peterson Rd because of the murders but I couldn't figure out what it was about the investigation that "spooked" them so abruptly and I believe it's what you say, they underestimated everything, especially BCI.

I believe they were completely blindsided that it didn't all just blow over, instead BCI intensified their pursuit. They thought Pike couldn't solve it then freaked out when BCI refused to leave Waverly Ohio in their gigantic mobile command center.

Probably all they thought about were the crime scenes like getting rid of evidence and not letting anyone see them and not leaving DNA and prints. Imagine the complete shock of seeing the indictments charging them with crimes that happened before the murders.

Before the murders they underestimated:

Fake custody documents, shoe receipt, fighting over custody, domestic abuse, stalking, sharing the home layouts, custody spread sheet, illegal surveillance, numerous screen shots of private conversations showing computer hacking, cell tower records, Boondock Saints movie, gun list on phone, gun photo on phone, being known as a Glock man, buying a Glock off facebook and shooting all over their property that left all those buried 22 shell casings....

All those purchases: Mask, night scope, bait nets to make brass catchers, bug detectors for counter surveillance, shoes, supplies to make silencers such as maglite flashlights, 10 Freeze plugs purchased at a local auto parts store paid for in cash, nuts, 1 quantity thread adapters/protectors for Colt Numarex 1911. Bought on March 27, 2016 are SKS magazines, SKS ammunition and AR 15 brass catcher.

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details
Link to Bond Hearing

...Opinion with information from the Bond Hearing...

 

[Betty P]

The "gag" order was placed on the Wagner 4 as well as their attorneys, and Fred and her attorney... but since she is no longer under court supervision her gag order is no longer valid.

The podcast participants and general public are under no such order. That would be asinine. If such an order could be issued as a blanket gag order lol, everyone (including us) would be screwed when it comes to discussion of this case.



"A gag order has been issued in the case, preventing attorneys and law enforcement from discussing it."

I'm sorry you misunderstood my post, maybe I wasn't clear.

Any alleged new inside information about the murders revealed in gossip on podcast shows should be considered suspect and possibly false since anyone with access to that information is an insider and subject to the gag order.

Any " inside" info about the cases coming From Fredericka Wagner is also highly suspect considering LE probably didn't discuss with her anything more than facts pertaining to the charges against her. Her attorneys are also unlikely to share info with her, either.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I'm sorry you misunderstood my post, maybe I wasn't clear.

Any alleged new inside information about the murders revealed in gossip on podcast shows should be considered suspect and possibly false since anyone with access to that information is an insider and subject to the gag order.

Any " inside" info about the cases coming From Fredericka Wagner is also highly suspect considering LE probably didn't discuss with her anything more than facts pertaining to the charges against her. Her attorneys are also unlikely to share info with her, either.

No, I didn't misunderstand. I simply disagree with your post and stated my opinion concerning Judge Deering's gag order and who is under that order.

For me, podcasts can contain truthfulness and mistruths. It is up to an individual listener to decide what they believe. So, agree to disagree.

 

[Betty P]

No, I didn't misunderstand. I simply disagree with your post and stated my opinion concerning Judge Deering's gag order and who is under that order.

For me, podcasts can contain truthfulness and mistruths. It is up to an individual listener to decide what they believe. So, agree to disagree.

Actually, I think we agree. People who claim to have inside information about the case, but are not insiders under a gag order are probably sharing false information as they wouldn't have access. IOW, anyone who has inside information about the state's case is under a gag order.

Sure, this case has dragged on far too long and some folks are desperate for any new nugget of information to feed discussion, but its so incredibly important to protect the state's case and make sure the killers are brought to justice. The latter just has to be a higher priority.

Maybe the next hearing will bring a few more new evidentiary nuggets for folks to discuss.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm sorry you misunderstood my post, maybe I wasn't clear.

Any alleged new inside information about the murders revealed in gossip on podcast shows should be considered suspect and possibly false since anyone with access to that information is an insider and subject to the gag order.

Any " inside" info about the cases coming From Fredericka Wagner is also highly suspect considering LE probably didn't discuss with her anything more than facts pertaining to the charges against her. Her attorneys are also unlikely to share info with her, either.

No one on the podcast is talking about any inside information about the criminal Case against the Wagners, that's not what this podcast is about.
On the podcast it is just people talking about what they know about the Rhodens and Wagners.

And FW has never talked about inside information on the Wagner's Case. She only gives her opinion. Fred does not even know if they are guilty or not, she is quoted in MSM saying :

"If they are guilty I won't take up for them."

No one but LE and the prosecution and the defense know anything about the inside information and the evidence on the Wagner's Case. Only LE, prosecutors and defense know what evidence is under seal. Only the Court knows the inside information.

The gag order applies to the attorneys and prosecutors, and of course LE investigators are never allowed to reveal evidence. If a LE official reveals evidence they can expect to be looking for a new job.

Even witnesses testifying are not going to be told about inside details and evidence on the Case. The focus is what they will say on the stand.

The podcast has people on it who knew the Rhodens and knew the Wagners and some state their full name, some have been quoted in MSM articles, some won't give their name. There is also an investigative journalist throwing in what he knows which is not more than what has already been put out there in MSM.

The people on the podcast never even talk about if they think the Wagners are guilty or innocent. That is never mentioned.

Chris Jr's close friend talks about what he was like, how she knows him and about Hanna telling him how frustrated she was with Jake. Dana's best friend talks about what Dana was like, a cousin who knows the Wagners had good experiences with them growing up but another relative is very negative about Billy. A friend talks about Jake and Angela and what they were like when Hanna was pregnant with K.

@Caylee Advocate sums it up quite well:

"For me, podcasts can contain truthfulness and mistruths. It is up to an individual listener to decide what they believe."

...2 Cents...