Identified! CA - Laurel Canyon, WhtFem 358UFCA, 20-23, Nov'69 - Reet Jurvetson

Good video, thanks!
Rodney has popped up on this thread several times and he is someone that i would not discount as having some involvement with this case, imo, speculation.
Identified! - CA - Laurel Canyon, WhtFem 358UFCA, 20-23, Manson Victim, Nov'69 - Reet Jurvetson"]CA - Laurel Canyon, WhtFem 358UFCA, 20-23, Manson Victim, Nov'69 - Reet Jurvetson


The Dating Game Killer l 20/20 l PART 5
•Jan 9, 2021
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the link to this I note that Alcala's second name was Jacques had only seen later ID where it was changed to James Essential to find out if there is a genealogical reason for that and if there are any links to Canada. One thing this case could still have going for it is that quite a high quality artist who knew Jean did the sketch which is indeed very very close to Alcala. I had dismissed it a bit in the past just because I am wary of linking cases to famous serial murders, also that Alcala is just so damn upsetting, and of course as far as we know we don't know of him being in Canada. There has to be some way of getting more evidence about Jean I (and of course Jean II) in Montreal and THEN go to his LA residence and experience from there. The problem is going to be that in the first place I get a sense that Jean in Montreal Cafe Image and Cafe Prag will extend over too long a period but Alcala certainly could move around who knows how mobile he really was also there is evidence that Jean had a French accent - though Jean I and Jean II seem to get blurred a bit in accounts.
 
1. Can anyone read the writing on the side of these two drawings of the Jeans? LAPD Seeks to Identify Two Men in Connection with Murder of Reet Jurvetson | PEOPLE.com What us it?

2. It is close to impossible that a Montreal investigation into Cafe Image and Cafe Prag would not bring to light someone who knew one or both of the Jeans. Jean I actually worked at Cafe Image correct? An article on the two cafes would be interesting in itself and an added angle mentioning the mystery of the Jeans in relation to Reet would bring something to light I would be almost certain. This sociological historical approach would work better than a simple crime approach. The Montreal online mag Coolopolis has done this but in a very thin partial way. Done by someone with more traditional research and journalistic training would bring results.

3. Post 210 shows examples of Reet's art. To me it is clear she had no particular artistic talent. I am wondering if the second image could be Jean I. Rather unlike the drawing we have - I am thinking of the description of his face looking like it is coming out of the shadows. It would be much closer in time....the drawing we have was done almost 50 years later a really really long time. Note all of the expressions of her subjects are quite dour lips lips turned down.
 
LAPD Seeks to Identify Two Men in Connection with Murder of Reet Jurvetson

image

Credit: Los Angeles Police Department
''In July, LAPD detectives Lou Rivera and Veronica Conrado flew to Montreal to interview a witness who met Jean and Jurvetson at the Café Image all those years ago. The man was able to provide detectives with a sketch of Jean. Detectives also learned that Jean was known to hang around with another male – also named Jean – who was shorter than his friend and wore a bowl haircut in the style of the Beatles.

“They might have been sharing an apartment in Los Angeles,” says Shepard. “They or he might have been the last ones to see her.”

Recently, a friend of Jervetson’s told CBC News’ investigative program, The Fifth Estate that she came across Jean’s friend in Montreal in the spring of 1970.

“And I went right up to him and started talking to him, and I was asking him about Reet,” the friend, Gilda Green, said. “And he said, ‘Oh yeah, she was with us for a couple of weeks and then she left on her own and everything’s fine, she was happy.'”

Green told The Fifth Estate that Jean’s friend had no idea what happened to Jurvetson after her Los Angeles trip.

Green said Jean’s friend was around five-foot-six-inches, with black hair, blue eyes and a French accent.

Jean, the man Jurvetson met in the coffee shop and flew to Los Angeles to visit, was described as more than five-feet-nine inches in height, with brown eyes and long feathered hair.''
 
Haircut of Jean II that is very late in the day for a Beatle's haircut which was only briefly popular c. 1963-1966 at latest. people turned away for a haircut that soon seemed silly and not long enough...you only have to look at the Beatle's hair in 1969....it is a very curious haircut for 1969. SO....is Jean II older say at least late 20's looking younger due to that haircut and facial type..... Jean I's hair is fine for the time.
 
Have jumped down the rabbit hole a bit on this one. I watched the fifth estate video and two things jumped out at me. The first being the number of times she was stabbed , even doing that motion ten times seems extreme, 150 is crazy. The second thing was that the murder weapon was a pen knife. That sort of rules out Manson for me, did they not go armed with much larger weapons to the Tate murder? It also seems like something you would have at hand, pointing to an unplanned attack, a struggle escalated and he has pulled out the pen knife. It could also explain the number of wounds, if there was a struggle he may have struck her several times to try and subdue her, or kill her. I imagine it takes a lot longer with a pen knife than a kitchen knife say, especially if she was fighting back. The number of wounds, and weapon, makes me think it was unplanned, if you had planned it would you not go armed with a bigger knife and deal more direct blows, les frenzied. What it all says to me is the killer is someone who she knew and that an argument escalated to the point of extreme rage and close weapon at hand was pulled out and used. All just my brain dump and opinion. Could be totally off the mark.
But would average person at that time be aware of low effectiveness of pen knife? Without previous attacks with this... Sorry but with weapon this kind - that insane number of wounds, like around or over hundred - is how much it takes to kill someone.
Thats way past the point of "omg what I'm doing?"
Also pen knife is very convenient: light on weight, little space needed to hide it, possible to carry everywhere.
 
But would average person at that time be aware of low effectiveness of pen knife? Without previous attacks with this... Sorry but with weapon this kind - that insane number of wounds, like around or over hundred - is how much it takes to kill someone.
Thats way past the point of "omg what I'm doing?"
Also pen knife is very convenient: light on weight, little space needed to hide it, possible to carry everywhere.
 
You're right it is an extraordinary weapon to use vis a vis the number of wounds. Certainly it would be legal to carry that knife. It would be interesting to know a bit more about the nature of the wounds - was the attack as vicious as we have believed or was there any element of piquerism i.e. the fetish of stabbing someone many many times not necessarily deeply a combination of torture and murder method......that may not fit here - a more frenzied crime? Were any of the wounds post mortem \i ask cause of the lack of blood on the mysteriously surviving bra?
 
I remember watching a show, be it a cop show (so that may not be accurate) or the hbo or other show using a famous forensic scientist and there was a person killed with a 3” blade and it was demonstrated how it reached the heart, (tissues were soft, gave in, the approach was under the ribs) and in this case too, there were many many cuts which made them think the victim was tortured.

Smallish knife, easy to carry, handy to have... familiar to the hand that uses it. This probably was not the first use of the knife for this person. How would you know to use it this way? Shivers... poor Reet...

The bra is crazy...
 
I doubt that this was a Manson murder, but the man on the right in the police sketch of the suspects kind of looks like Tex Watson.
 

Attachments

  • jane-doe-59-1024-1.jpg
    jane-doe-59-1024-1.jpg
    178 KB · Views: 20
  • tex-watson-young.jpg
    tex-watson-young.jpg
    108.9 KB · Views: 17
Is this Jim Morrison's doppelganger sketch more accurate than older one or it's just a different version, more influenced by artist style?

Cause with that older sketch I would think that yeah, that might look like a dozens different dudes in the area at that time, maybe people recognize him but not associate him with John/Jean/Joe/Jack and that's why he's still unknown. But the newer one? God, that guy would stand out everywhere and couldn't be forgotten by anyone, you don't forget knowing young Jim Morrison's doppelganger in late 60s.
 
Just a thought but to draw this good she had to do that on regular basis. It might not be a rule but drawing a lot myself and knowing other teenage girls while they do... I would say that there is no way that Reet didn't draw at least a few portraits of a guy who she was ready to drive to Cali to visit.
Unless something happened and she quitted drawing at some point.
Lack of supplies shouldn't be a problem since notebook and a pencil would do the trick. It's very likely that these drawings would get lost but... I don't know.
 
Just a thought but to draw this good she had to do that on regular basis. It might not be a rule but drawing a lot myself and knowing other teenage girls while they do... I would say that there is no way that Reet didn't draw at least a few portraits of a guy who she was ready to drive to Cali to visit.
Unless something happened and she quitted drawing at some point.
Lack of supplies shouldn't be a problem since notebook and a pencil would do the trick. It's very likely that these drawings would get lost but... I don't know.
That is an excellent idea! Of course a young woman with artistic inclinations is going to try and draw a pic of her boyfriend, or at least take some photos of him to show her girlfriends.
Maybe somebody somewhere still has one?

Keeping eyes open too for UID males, because for all we know he may have been murdered too.
imo, speculation.
 
That is an excellent idea! Of course a young woman with artistic inclinations is going to try and draw a pic of her boyfriend, or at least take some photos of him to show her girlfriends.
Maybe somebody somewhere still has one?

Keeping eyes open too for UID males, because for all we know he may have been murdered too.
imo, speculation.
Oh, and I dismissed the thought about any of her pics from that time existing, taking immediate assumption that she most likely couldn't afford a camera (which of course she could get as a gift or borrow from someone sometimes) at that time of her life - and if she did then for sure at least some of her friends would know about it.
Now as I'm thinking about it, scares me that time to get these pics is already gone.

About her drawings - these are good, really good and really pretty, I would guess that if she would left her drawings with someone there will be a big chance that person would keep these, think twice before throwing it away (especially that it could be in form or notebook with collection of portraits, autoportraits etc. and person close to her could be on one or more of these drawings).

But pictures... she was beautiful... that Jim Morrisson lookalike Jean was looking good, there is a BIG chance that wherever they went, they would get invite for a group picture or some quick artistic shoot. Even at this Jean's workplace he could ended up catched in somebodys pictures... but likelyhood of someone still having these pics and being aware of Reet's case, checking out such old memorabilias - slim to none I guess.
With her friends and acquaintances from that time chances would be bigger but are they aware? Are they still alive? Was there maybe some aspiring photographer in her crowd?

I turned my thoughts more to drawings cause if these "Jean's" were using aliases they would likely avoid pictures and posing for drawings but a girl in love or just practicing her skills would be able to draw an excellently accurate portrait just from her memory.

Reet's beauty is hard to forget, "Jim Morrison" look would be hard to forget, gosh, even that Beatlelike haircut of second Jean could stand out enough to still be remembered, even after all these years... it's weird.


And I would dismiss Tex as a suspect. He's a big guy, he had at this point enough blood on his hands to cause way way more damage while killing in rage, i can't imagine him using pocket knife.
Some slim build, bit younger guy or a woman, yes, but Tex doesn't fit.
 
Last edited:

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
183
Guests online
820
Total visitors
1,003

Forum statistics

Threads
589,938
Messages
17,927,928
Members
228,007
Latest member
BeachyTee
Back
Top