Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

[Kerry Winter]

I always feel like KD has an agenda for his articles. This recent series feels as if it's a prelude to something big. Will be a real anticlimax if we hear nothing more for months after these.

Donovan can milk the cow for only so long before it dries up.

 

[al66pine]

Negotiating After Trial Ct. Judgment?

fwiw, In Donovan’s first big interview....Jonathon said it was a $580 million judgement that they negotiated down and paid after the murders....

sbm & bbm
From @MistyWaters: ".... Any company is very unique if they’re able to “negotiate” a judgement because the dollar amount of a judgement is Court-ordered by a Judge." sbm & bbm
Caveat: I've not read about this or other Apotex cases on W/S threads or elsewhere, so talking gen idea about negotiating after trial court judgment. Why? Let's try a hypothetical:*
Company 1 sues Company 2. Pre-trial, likely to be negotiations, and if no settlement is reached, then trial. At trial, ct awards: $ *advertiser censored*,ooo,ooo in damages. After that, why would 'winner' negotiate or accept fewer $?
Briefly, 'winner' (at first trial) may lose on appeal.

Not so briefly, if losing party files appeal, appellate ct may reverse tr. ct's decision & remand case for retrial.
W new trial, winner (at first trial) pays additional expenses (legal services & other costs) regardless of outcome.
And new trial may have different outcome:
a. Winner (at first trial) may lose, is awarded nothing.
b. Winner (at first trial) may be awarded less than at first trial, maybe a just a small percentage.
c . Winner (at first trial) may be awarded more at new trial.

So. depending on numerous factors, winner (at first trial) may negotiate & accept less, while case is on appeal. Or may not negotiate.

Welcoming comment & correction, esp'ly from our legal professionals, esp'ly our northern neighbors in Canada.
________________________________________________________
* ^ hypo addresses civil litigation generally, in US (not Canada) generally; assumes after this app ct procedure that relief is not available from higher ct; ignores post-judgment interest, if applicable, ignores specifics re Apotex & other party (whoever), etc.

 

[MistyWaters]

Negotiating After Trial Ct. Judgment?
sbm & bbm
From @MistyWaters: ".... Any company is very unique if they’re able to “negotiate” a judgement because the dollar amount of a judgement is Court-ordered by a Judge." sbm & bbm
Caveat: I've not read about this or other Apotex cases on W/S threads or elsewhere, so talking gen idea about negotiating after trial court judgment. Why? Let's try a hypothetical:*
Company 1 sues Company 2. Pre-trial, likely to be negotiations, and if no settlement is reached, then trial. At trial, ct awards: $ *advertiser censored*,ooo,ooo in damages. After that, why would 'winner' negotiate or accept fewer $?
Briefly, 'winner' (at first trial) may lose on appeal.

Not so briefly, if losing party files appeal, appellate ct may reverse tr. ct's decision & remand case for retrial.
W new trial, winner (at first trial) pays additional expenses (legal services & other costs) regardless of outcome.
And new trial may have different outcome:
a. Winner (at first trial) may lose, is awarded nothing.
b. Winner (at first trial) may be awarded less than at first trial, maybe a just a small percentage.
c . Winner (at first trial) may be awarded more at new trial.

So. depending on numerous factors, winner (at first trial) may negotiate & accept less, while case is on appeal. Or may not negotiate.

Welcoming comment & correction, esp'ly from our legal professionals, esp'ly our northern neighbors in Canada.
________________________________________________________
* ^ hypo addresses civil litigation generally, in US (not Canada) generally; assumes after this app ct procedure that relief is not available from higher ct; ignores post-judgment interest, if applicable, ignores specifics re Apotex & other party (whoever), etc.

I think you might be referring to a Settlement Agreement?

Regardless we don’t know the details of this referenced lawsuit so all we can do is speculate. In the vast majority if not all legal proceedings I’ve noticed Apotex has been involved in, they dragged on for many years even decades until all legal avenues were exhausted eventually winding their way to SCC. Such is the way it seems in the world of generic drug manufacturing versus big pharma patents.

Long list, con’t on 2nd page -
Supreme Court of Canada - SCC Case Information - Search Results

 

[al66pine]

I think you might be referring to a Settlement Agreement?
Regardless we don’t know the details of this referenced lawsuit so all we can do is speculate. In the vast majority if not all legal proceedings I’ve noticed Apotex has been involved in, they dragged on for many years even decades until all legal avenues were exhausted eventually winding their way to SCC. Such is the way it seems in the world of generic drug manufacturing versus big pharma patents. Long list, con’t on 2nd page -Supreme Court of Canada - SCC Case Information - Search Results

@MistyWaters Agreeing, long list. Apotex is no shrinking violet in litigation.

Point of my earlier post was -
in some circumstances, a losing party may not ultimately pay amt of $ judgment at trial. That's all.

Excerpts from my earlier post:
"At trial, ct awards: $ *advertiser censored*,ooo,ooo in damages. After that, why would 'winner' negotiate or accept fewer $?
Briefly, 'winner' (at first trial) may lose on appeal." bbm

"Caveat: I've not read about this or other Apotex cases on W/S threads or elsewhere, so talking gen idea about negotiating after trial court judgment.
"* ^ hypo addresses civil litigation generally, in US (not Canada); assumes after this app ct procedure that relief is not available from higher ct; ignores post-judgment interest, if applicable, ignores specifics re Apotex & other party (whoever), etc."

 

[casesensitive]

It is interesting how KD's articles have progressed from the "money" to the "power" control. JS appears to be the only sibling who is trying to exert his power over the people who were entrusted to manage the company. It looks like he has failed, and I'm sure his business partner is not pleased.

JS has also tried to advocate where the Sherman donations are spent, which was shut down by his sister. He tried to get her to step down as president of the fund, which she refused to do.

It is evident to me that JS (and guessing his partner) considered taking over control of Barry's interests by declaring him incompetent to manage his affairs. Obviously his siblings didn't agree. I'm not sure that Barry realized how serious JS's email to his sisters was, because he laughed it off.

But JS has proven that he was dead serious in trying to take control. That makes him an unlikeable, arrogant, ungrateful, spoiled, know-it-all, but it doesn't make him a murderer.

I will wait for the evidence that solves this case, no matter how long it takes.

 

[Tobiano8th]

i meant to go to local newstand and get Saturday Toronto Star. i can probably get it tomorrow (and i assume it's in Saturday's?).

anyway, any interesting tidbits in the 3rd installment or just more of the same?

not sure we should assume too much negative about AP........ i'm thinking all these entities and JS relatives not wanting AP to be involved in things is they don't want JS gaining more control. i'm thinking it's more anti-JS spread.

 

[Tobiano8th]

to the one comment, i certainly agree that while JS sticks out like sore thumb to most observers, there is not much "public" info that qualifies as any thing more than background circumstantial evidence.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

i didn't pick up on this from first reading... but i'm guessing MS was using HS credit accounts, with permission, for big purchases at expensive NYC stores

i didn't pick up on this from first reading... but i'm guessing MS was using HS credit accounts, with permission, for big purchases at expensive NYC stores

In the end, barry supported a lot of parasites .... via HS or directly, it seems. IMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

''Honey’s assistant" was quoted as telling police that while Honey never spent much money on her credit card “it was Mary who spent a lot of money at U.S. Saks and Barry was never to see those bills.”

bbm
Interesting! Who is that?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

In reading Lexi’s timeline JS was already appointed Trustee in 2013. That’s the reason I’m not clear why he might’ve been panicking over the situation involving the codicil in 2017.

2013, BS updates his will naming trustees Jack Kay, Craig Baxter (then president of Sherfam, the Sherman family holding company), Mike Florence (husband of Barry’s sister Sandra), Allen Shechtman (husband of Honey’s sister Mary), and Barry and Honey’s grown children, Lauren, Jonathon, Alexandra and Kaelen. (Source: Honey Sherman would have controlled the ‘net income’ of husband Barry’s multibillion-dollar fortune had she lived, sources reveal )

Daunting to involve the whole family in businesses, it seems, looking back.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Adversarial Siblings?
@Tobiano8th bbm, sbm. Who is ^everyone^? The four offspring of HS & BS?
If so, agreeing w you - seems the four should be content w receiving equal percentages of the principal & income of parents' estate (as I understand, that is basic provision of will filed for probate, but still under seal). Seems all should be waaay more than content.

But even w no second spouse or set of step-siblings who would receive part of estate, the four offspring may perceive reasons to quibble about estate distribution. Dream up a reason???

Did BS or HS previously make substantial gifts, or make loans to one of the kids? Or were there emotional/relationship issues in fam? Does one kid believe for years mom or dad favored another child? Sibling rivalry?

Not concluding anything, just considering possibilities for adversarial feelings among sibs.

If one sibling had HS/BS as bio parents and three siblings had not (but only BS), extra issues were preprogrammed, I believe, given the wealth.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Timeline:
-December 12th, 2017, daytime, HS uncharacteristically misses a meeting at the Baycrest Centre Foundation, as she was ‘dealing with some stuff’.

-December 12th, 2017, evening, JS and his husband return home from Japan.

-December 13th, 2017 was the last day the Shermans were seen alive. This information is from KD’s book, and articles linked below.
-.-.-
I didn't know, it was the same day, this occurred. Remarkable somehow, IMO. Especially because JS wasn't HS' darling and much more greedy than others, it seems. Did HS forced JS to return asap and care for the debts, BS urgently wanted payed back to him? Maybe, these debts would have had become a big problem during the appointment with the architects of the new grand villa and HS' negotiations with her stingy husband the next day?

 

[dotr]

Kevin Donovan discusses the Sherman family’s succession battle
•Feb 22, 2021

''The battle over the multibillion dollar estate of Barry and Honey Sherman is something worthy of Shakespeare or HBO’s “Succession.” From business to charitable pursuits, the children of the Shermans are in a bitter dispute over how to manage their fortune. Kevin Donovan, chief investigative reporter at The Star, has been investigating this case since the December 2017 double homicide and wrote the book “The Billionaire Murders.” He joins “This Matters” to detail what happened to the Sherman family and fortune, and gives an update on the investigation. If you would like to support the journalism of the Toronto Star, you can subscribe at thestar.com/subscribingmatters.''

 

[JDG]

bbm
Interesting! Who is that?

Mary Schectman is Honeys' sister and 'best friend'.

The quote is from Honeys' PA who paid her bills, kept her diary up to date etc.
Not sure of any name for this person, perhaps it was in KDs book?

 

[dotr]

Mary Schectman is Honeys' sister and 'best friend'.

The quote is from Honeys' PA who paid her bills, kept her diary up to date etc.
Not sure of any name for this person, perhaps it was in KDs book?

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after
''Sheila Stanley, Honey’s personal assistant, told police “infidelity was impossible in Barry and Honey’s relationship because of how busy they were.”

 

[Lexiintoronto]

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after
''Sheila Stanley, Honey’s personal assistant, told police “infidelity was impossible in Barry and Honey’s relationship because of how busy they were.”

Stanley had the day off on the Thursday after the murders, according to Donovan.

There’s zero indication of her being involved. But it’s one of a few last-minute changes in the regular Sherman agenda. Whoever did this, really had to know the Shermans’ schedules.

(In the two days prior to the deaths the architects meeting was delayed by a day, Barry missed FDA’s lunch, and daughter Alex and Honey moved around the date for Honey’s and Barry’s visit to Alex’s home.)

Why not murder them at night? Maybe it was because of the alarm, or problems with creating an alibi? Or maybe it didn’t fit with the staging plans (?)

 

[ldlager]

It is interesting how KD's articles have progressed from the "money" to the "power" control. JS appears to be the only sibling who is trying to exert his power over the people who were entrusted to manage the company. It looks like he has failed, and I'm sure his business partner is not pleased.

JS has also tried to advocate where the Sherman donations are spent, which was shut down by his sister. He tried to get her to step down as president of the fund, which she refused to do.

It is evident to me that JS (and guessing his partner) considered taking over control of Barry's interests by declaring him incompetent to manage his affairs. Obviously his siblings didn't agree. I'm not sure that Barry realized how serious JS's email to his sisters was, because he laughed it off.

But JS has proven that he was dead serious in trying to take control. That makes him an unlikeable, arrogant, ungrateful, spoiled, know-it-all, but it doesn't make him a murderer.

I will wait for the evidence that solves this case, no matter how long it takes.

In view of the fact that there is never any news on this case, all we have to go on is speculating on who would most benefit from the deaths; who would want them dead; and evaluating and trying to understand the behaviour and reactions of those that are closest to the deceased.
We don't know who the murderer is- all we have is circumstantial information and our own intuition based on what we know. We may never know who the murderer is, unfortunately.

 

[Satchie]

Because it sells papers. Simple. There is huge public interest/ curiosity.

Huge? Not IMO. If it there was a huge interest, then other news outlets would be reporting on the Star's 'revelations' second hand. But aside from a minor story on CTV news, there's nothing. People are hugely interested in Covid and vaccinations and lockdowns. If/when the case is solved, IMO there'll be some interest, depending on the angle and what else is happening at the time. MOO.

 

[Windsorite]

not sure we should assume too much negative about AP..... I'm thinking all these entities and JS relatives not wanting AP to be involved in things is they don't want JS gaining more control. I'm thinking it's more anti-JS spread

IMO Alexandra may feel that she is honoring her father's wishes in this respect. Since she must have been aware Barry didn't want AP as part of the succession plan. The family legacy seems to be of great concern to her.

These four recent articles are giving me the sense there maybe some sexism going on here that wasn't apparent before.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

From the SCC page on the Estate of Bernard Sherman and the Trustees of the Estate, et al. v. Kevin Donovan, et al.

The case was heard on October 6, 2020.

This is the first SCC case that I’ve followed, so I don’t know if this activity is routine following a hearing...

Donovan recently said they expect to have a ruling later this year, and JS was recently quoted by the Star as saying he is okay if the Estate files are unsealed.


Supreme Court of Canada - SCC Case Information - Docket - 38695