Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #130

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Maybe, maybe not.

IMO, it's possible this murder was not sexually motivated at all. My first thought when hearing about this case was it probably was sexually motivated. However, it's possible the suspect was enraged, for whatever reason, at the girls. Did he think he had privacy from whatever he was doing there and was interrupted by the girls, as an example. Were these poor girls savagely beaten to death, then the suspect simply walked away? We just don't know and LE has released very little.

Random side note, I'm hesitant to read too much into what Carter says. This probably won't go over well, but I think he's very sentimental when he talks in general. The Shack reference is a good example of this. I thought he did the same when interviewed in the DTH podcast with the way he kept describing the area the girls were recovered from.

IMO

Your question was, have LE ever confirmed they were. The answer, as I pointed out, is no. That means maybe they were, maybe they weren't, we have no confirmed information one way or the other.

My clarification was, however, that many people assume no evidence of rape/sexual assault equals no sexual motivation, which is patently false. And there is no maybe/maybe not about that.

Edited to add, that when men are enraged for general reasons it often manifests as sexual violence against women/girls in one way or another. So even a motive of "just rage" could have elements meant to sexually assault or sexually humiliate that were not even premeditated.
 
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Yes, I agree. And this is my point. Of all the possible scenario's, of all the discussion, of all the speculation, by literally dozens, likely hundreds, of people over the years, not one has come up with that detail, or set of details, known only to LE, and the killer?

So we, as a whole, are not able to conjure what this murderer actually did?

What is the probability of that?

Across the creek, not across, one killer or two, how he accessed the bridge, who saw him, on the trails or not, in the woods, parked at the CPS lot, maybe in the cemetery, forced across the creek or trying to escape, gun, or knife, or club, or taser, disguise or no disguise, young or old, hair or not, hat or no hat, boots, truckers, hitchhikers, serial killer, knew the girls or didn't know the girls, sexually abused or not, from Delphi, not from Delphi, athletic or old and frumpy, random or targeted, limp or no limp, voice from nearby, midwestern, recognized but can't nail it down, modus operandi, signatures, the list goes on, and on.

I find it amazing someone, even by accident, hasn't, here or in a podcast or youtube video, stumbled upon a truth that would arouse the FBI's suspicion.
Totally agree. There just aren’t that many possibilities left. Many of the things you listed are yes or no, like they either crossed the creek or they didn’t. There’s no other possibility unless aliens abducted them, levitated them over the creek and dropped them on the other side. He either shot them or he didn’t. He’s either 18 or 40 or whatever, but his age is a set detail. And the possibility that NO ONE has come up with the secret detail is low. He had about an hour with them at max. To do something so far fetched that none of us can imagine it, I just think he’d need more time. This case has been passionately discussed and debated nonstop for four years, here and other places. I think most people who discuss this case, if contacted by LE over a post they made, would be right back online talking about it unless they were arrested. And that’s a secret that wouldn’t last long, imo.
 
If he thinks one could’ve run, it makes it less likely there were two perps. Does he know for sure one didn’t try to run?

He never said one couldn’t run. Whether both ran together or neither attempted to, we don’t know, other than he believes they stayed together.

Without the facts it becomes a guessing game but I don’t think this proves there were two perpetrators. That the two girls stuck together rather than one abandoning the other is something true friends often do.
 
I am scared of heights. I wouldn't want to cross that bridge. I would be freaked out. I could easily do it.

It looks like it is about 10 feet wide. So even without any railing, it would seem pretty easy to not fall off of the side of it. Although, I wouldn't recommend walking exactly in the center of it. I would stay a little bit off-center. Closer to where there is support directly under the rotting railroad ties.

Then you must consider the gaps between the ties themselves. How big are those gaps? 8 to 12 inches? Plenty of room to break an ankle, but you aren't going all the way through one of those gaps.

But then you have a few/handful of broken/missing RR ties. To me, this is by far the biggest hazard. In reality, it is just a long step over those gaps. For me, this would be the biggest mental challenge. I fear that I would get dizzy, weak in the knees, or freeze up halfway through stepping over a missing tie. But I think I could do it.

Lastly, another big hazard is having a tie break when you step on it. I think the odds of this happening is slim. Especially if you don't walk exactly in the center of the bridge (where the stress on the ties would be the greatest). Also, I think there is a good chance of avoiding falling all the way through if a tie did happen to break. But the possibility of a tie breaking would be in the back of my mind every step I took.

I've walked down many "regular" RR tracks. Even with gravel filling the gaps between the ties, I still intuitively only stepped on the ties. I would adjust my stride and quickly get into a rhythm (always with my head down "watching my step").

But, I agree, that bridge would be a deterrent to many. I think it was also an integral part of his plan. He knew that very few people actually cross it. Once he realized the girls were going all the way across, he knew that MOST LIKELY no one else would be coming across it behind them anytime soon.

Moo
I think we can safely say BG doesn't have vertigo. If that was me I would be on my belly pulling myself along crying for about a metre and then shuffling back again compounding my complete refusal to cross it.
I feel sick crossing metal motorway bridges with concrete and railings, nevermind a rotten bridge like the MHB.
 
With all the speculation, and discussion, over the years, would it be correct to say that what really happened to these girls on that fateful day still has not been mentioned or discussed on this website?

What I mean is, if someone here, or elsewhere online, really did post that detail, or details about the murder of these two girls, that LE knows, but nobody else knows, save the killer, do you think that person would be contacted by LE? Would LE ever know?

Well, if LE checks all of the places that post this stuff (what headache!), and someone said something that implied more knowledge, not playing a guessing game, I hope they’d first check the author. And I think, they would. But I don’t think BG is a regular here. In my imagination, he manages to stay hidden because he does not take the unnecessary risks. Or, he made such a perfect alibi...

For myself, I don’t understand even the purpose of killing. So closely to their house? This is why I am not sure it is all sexual. And if not, there should have been a a “good enough” reason to take this risk, and this is what I am trying to figure out.
 
Ho

How did the other poster do so then? Is there a way around it??

When I shared from the article, I transcribed small portions of it. I didn't copy and paste the whole thing. There were probably over 25 questions in the last installment alone, but I shared only the parts that were new information (the majority of the questions were things already documented in other articles or interviews).
 
th


they never caught him...sadly...at least not in my case...mOO

In my work, I sometimes find victims of violence, but what always surprises me is how little there is for those who survived attacks on their lives. No support groups, little knowledge about behaviors - what is normal to expect, what is not. It is like, about killers, we know everything, but the victims are on their own. It is shocking how little we know about how to support the victims.
 

Why would he walk them 3/4 of a mile from bridge? Were the bodies found in the direction of where that car was parked at the old abandoned building? How close were bodies to the car? Maybe abduction attempt?

This expert points out that it is really weird no one has recognized this guy yet. It makes u wonder if it isn’t someone from outside of Delphi , unknown to locals, or maybe some guy in Delphi that no one knows. Is that possible? Even if he was homeless it seems someone would have seen him before. And if he is a resident and a family member is covering for him, wouldn’t at least other people in town be aware of him and how he looks like this BG? I bet the fact that they’ve put out 2 vastly different pix is really throwing people off and might even be narrowing their chances of someone reporting him. Maybe they thought “Joe” looks just like BG, then LE puts out Young Guy curly hair no goatee pic and they drop their suspicion. I think LE really needs to address that issue more clearly with the public if they want their help.

At this point it can literally look like any guy in America. I really don’t get how it can be some young guy with curly hair no hat and no goatee but also be an old guy with an old guy voice and a hat and goatee! It must be really confusing and frustrating to the locals.
This Gray Hughes (it's been condensed according to him at the start) shows at the beginning an overview of whole area. At around 15:00 mark he starts talking about the killer's exit from the crime scene and a witness to it. On that road is the area Kelsei dropped the girls off and if you continued the parking area right by the Hoosier Highway where "the" vehicle police asked about was parked.

Interesting thing, where the witness supposedly saw someone walking by the cemetery is not far at all from the drop off point. Kelsei mentioned more recently that she noticed a decaled SUV vehicle parked there when the girls got out.

 
If they knew who it was they would have mentioned his name in the recording.

JMO but I don’t think we know enough to draw any conclusion. If by chance they did recognize him and knew the two were about to be in a dangerous situation with their lives at risk, I don’t think Libby would’ve wasted time using her cellphone camera knowing it would become helpful evidence of homicide - instead she’d have used that same cellphone to make a frantic call to police. And we also don’t know if she had the cellphone in front of her face while videoing, speaking into it while videoing. BP suggested on a Dr Phil show she believed Libby held the cellphone down by her side and captured the brief glimpse of the man without him seeing her do it.

I’m not supporting any one theory - she did or didn’t recognize him - but I do think without a doubt she later expected to talk about it, which would be another reason why not recording audio isn’t enough to draw a conclusion one way or another. Although saying that, LE have never said if she attempted to make an emergency call or if her cellphone was out of range at the time.
 
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In my work, I sometimes find victims of violence, but what always surprises me is how little there is for those who survived attacks on their lives. No support groups, little knowledge about behaviors - what is normal to expect, what is not. It is like, about killers, we know everything, but the victims are on their own. It is shocking how little we know about how to support the victims.

in the days when this happened there was nothing...literally.
 
Ho

How did the other poster do so then? Is there a way around it??

Members may link to the paywalled article and briefly summarize or quote the Google hit summary to give others an idea what the article is about. Members who wish to pay for the article may do so.

As for there being a way around it, that's a no. WS does not advocate or condone copyright infringement.
 
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