Lies point us to the truth

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UKGuy said:
887sMtreme,
Its more than iffy. It's too cheesy for me. There are sites out there full of this stuff with weird theories that include the Clintons, etc.
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Cheese, really? No thanks, then. BTW, sorry for having repeated the opening line in my post. I don’t know how I do these things! LOL
 
887sMtreme said:
Lately, I’ve given up hope about what insane things people will believe. But I digress.
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887sMtreme,
There has always been a spin in this case. But there are also facts. The best way to learn about this case is to read the books. Yet, I have to admit I have never read DOI. If R’s can’t get their story right in the beginning why support them further? Acandyrose is a good place to start.
 
After seeing pretty much every documentary and interview, listening to so many theories, my theory is this;

Jonbenet and Burke are awake and in the kitchen eating the bowl of pineapple in the middle of the night. Burke gets mad or annoyed and hits Jonbenet over the head with the flashlight which was probably the closest thing to him. The parents find them (or are called by Burke whatever the scenario) and they believe Jonbenet is dead. John, the more level headed person, wants to call for help but Patsy talks him out of it while scrambling to fix the mess. She doesn’t want to lose both of her children. She had John hide Jonbenet’s body, telling him to make it look like someone came in and killed her. She writes the ransom note, mostly likely with her left hand, while cleaning up whatever else she needs to clean up. John or Patsy grab Jonbenet’s favorite white blanket, which someone that cares for her would do. (ie Caylee Anthony) John carries her to the basement and ties a rope around her neck and wrists but doesn’t realize she’s still alive. He wants to make it look like an intruder as much as possible so he, or possibly Patsy, use the paintbrush as well. After all is said and done Patsy calls 911 and tells Burke that no matter what do not come out of his room.

Burke has always given me a bad feeling. Patsy comes off as a little frantic. And John seems like he would do anything to protect his family. They’re never going to speak out on it even though Patsy is gone because 1) they all played a part in it and 2) murder has no statute of limitations. I’m sure it absolutely killed John to find out his daughter died from the strangulation and Patsy could have used that against him if he ever felt guilty and wanted to go to the police. The things that lead me to believe this is that there was no signs of an intruder, the ransom note (EVERYTHING about it), all of their behavior, Burke being “asleep” the entire time, the 911 call, the parents not coming in and frantically asking Burke where Jonbenet was when they “realized she was missing”, John going straight to her body while he has a witness with him after already checking the basement, the Dr. Phil interview (cringe), and just basic instinct. Burke was old enough and strong enough to fracture her skull that’s already been proven. I do not think John did it. Patsy could have done it all and tried to cover it up but if that was the case I don’t think John would have stayed with her or protected her. I think there was a reason and this is the only scenario that makes sense to me. Patsy doing it all by herself, initially as an accident and then trying to cover it up is sensible as well. However John finding the body was kinda sketchy. Burke’s behavior is very odd. And John would have had to have known or at least had an inclination about it and I don’t believe he would have stayed with her and kept Burke close to her if he knew or thought she did it. Patsy needed Jonbenet to live out and fulfill her idealizations and legacies as a pageant girl. She had so much more ahead of her.

I will leave off on this note: This beautiful 6 year girl old lost her life. She was murdered. No matter what I or anyone else believes, the real problem is she hasn’t gotten justice. And we don’t know if she ever will in this lifetime. She is just a year younger than me and tragically while I am about to be 32, she will forever be 6 years old. Never getting a chance to live life and accomplish so many great things. God bless her and may she Rest In Peace❤️ I do hope that one day she will receive justice, whether it’s in the courtroom or karma itself. It truly seems as though Burke isn’t having a chance at a very normal life either so maybe there it is. Hopefully in this lifetime there will be more though.

I love websleuths! Keep on sleuthing you guys!
 
There is a very telling sign of BR on Dr. Phil. He states perhaps his memory was erased. I have thought this for along time, MOO.
Whatever took place Christmas night; I am sure it was a traumatic event for everyone involved.
The evidence points to all three people remaining in the home, on the morning of 12/26/96; as taking part. Goodness, if PR and/or JR did it; why involve BR? Obviously the parents got handed True Bills from the GJ.
BR could not be charged. His 10th birthday a little over a week. So, parents are guilty, although not enough evidence to convict?
Did he happen to walk in on something? Looks like from video that he could have entered the basement stairwell without being noticed? The video can be seen under: Media links only post #275 , pg. 14.
I wonder how many people were/are psychotic in that house?
 
Rain on my Parade said:
There is a very telling sign of BR on Dr. Phil. He states perhaps his memory was erased. I have thought this for along time, MOO.
Whatever took place Christmas night; I am sure it was a traumatic event for everyone involved.
The evidence points to all three people remaining in the home, on the morning of 12/26/96; as taking part. Goodness, if PR and/or JR did it; why involve BR? Obviously the parents got handed True Bills from the GJ.
BR could not be charged. His 10th birthday a little over a week. So, parents are guilty, although not enough evidence to convict?
Did he happen to walk in on something? Looks like from video that he could have entered the basement stairwell without being noticed? The video can be seen under: Media links only post #275 , pg. 14.
I wonder how many people were/are psychotic in that house?
Click to expand...

Rain on my Parade,
BR's appearance on Dr Phil was a scripted affair. BR had his lines, yet as we know, he messed them up, e.g. memory was erased was likely meant to be something else, i.e. episodic ramnesia.

From what BR said and his impulsive grinning, it's safe to say he does not have an objective view of his sisters murder.

It's unlikely he walked in on anything, remember the bedroom doors had internal locks, so not much scope there.

Also JR was not speaking to him on the 911 call, if BR was a witness surely JR would want him on his side?

Psychotic, who knows. I reckon Patsy had issues, loadsa money and she wants her daughter to pursue a pageant career?

Patsy in her own way was just like JR self centered and focused on her goals, to the detriment of her children.

She considered JonBenet as a project, wow I thought when I read that, which then described Burke as a failed project, so Patsy dumped Burke in favor of JonBenet.
I reckon this is where any rivalry would have stemmed from between Burke and JonBenet.
Burke was likely jealous or angry JonBenet was receiving his mother's attention?

As a family they were dysfunctional, they all went their own way, pursuing their separate interests. John with his corporate career; Patsy with her social climbing agenda and faux art collecting; Burke with his typical male obsessions, knots, knives, video games, flying, sailing, etc; JonBenet copying her mother and grand-mother's pageant interests, leaving her vulnerable to external influence as all her role models were atypical.

So JonBenet was alone in a house she could not leave and dependent on her parents for external excursions.

So the Christmas Vacation presented the perfect storm for whomever was abusing JonBenet, as she had nowhere to go?

All the signs are there, if you care to look. Patsy drops hints in some of her interviews.

Is the case a sexual assault gone wrong, a bed wetting gone wrong or parental anger gone wrong?

.
 
Rain on my Parade said:
887sMtreme,
There has always been a spin in this case. But there are also facts. The best way to learn about this case is to read the books. Yet, I have to admit I have never read DOI. If R’s can’t get their story right in the beginning why support them further? Acandyrose is a good place to start.
Click to expand...

I’ve read all the books (except DOI, though I’ve read excerpts that tell me that was a good decision), and have actually been following this case from the day the story broke. At that time, without knowing much more than “child pageant winner” and “brother,” I thought Burke did it in a fit of jealous rage. Not careful thinking, that, although I still entertain the BDI possibility. Both adult Ramseys in the house that night were fully capable, solo or together, with or without Burke’s involvement, of doing the deed. The only popular solution I don’t buy is IDI. I do think it’s possible that something happened at the Whites and/or in the car en route home afterward, that set off a series of events that culminated in JBR’s death.
 
887sMtreme said:
I’ve read all the books (except DOI, though I’ve read excerpts that tell me that was a good decision), and have actually been following this case from the day the story broke. At that time, without knowing much more than “child pageant winner” and “brother,” I thought Burke did it in a fit of jealous rage. Not careful thinking, that, although I still entertain the BDI possibility. Both adult Ramseys in the house that night were fully capable, solo or together, with or without Burke’s involvement, of doing the deed. The only popular solution I don’t buy is IDI. I do think it’s possible that something happened at the Whites and/or in the car en route home afterward, that set off a series of events that culminated in JBR’s death.
Click to expand...

887sMtreme,
For those that think the case is JDI, PDI or some combination of both, why was the staging not more sophisticated, not detection proof, but more in tune with how an adult might present a staged crime-scene?

The Bloomingdale's size-12 and Burke Ramsey's long johns defy explanation as elements in a staged crime-scene.

Not unless they flung their son under the proverbial bus?

.
 
While it is easy to identify mistakes, it is often difficult to determine the reason for them. For instance, if someone were to calculate 7+4=15, one immediately should observe that this was incorrect. However, the nature of the mental process which lead to the wrong conclusion remains obscure.
 
UKGuy said:
887sMtreme,
For those that think the case is JDI, PDI or some combination of both, why was the staging not more sophisticated, not detection proof, but more in tune with how an adult might present a staged crime-scene?

The Bloomingdale's size-12 and Burke Ramsey's long johns defy explanation as elements in a staged crime-scene.

Not unless they flung their son under the proverbial bus?

.
Click to expand...


Again, without claiming any of the current theories as my own, something we can probably consider is that the murderer(s) might well not have acted rationally.
 
887sMtreme said:
Again, without claiming any of the current theories as my own, something we can probably consider is that the murderer(s) might well not have acted rationally.
Click to expand...

887sMtreme,
Sure not all of the killer(s) actions might have been rational. Yet the staging was obviously a postmortem attempt at evading detection?

The staging, which I reckon was undertaken by Burke, John and Patsy, at different phases in JonBenet's homicide was planned to evade detection, else why bother?

That aspects of the staging appear irrational might be a deliberate ploy?

.
 
UKGuy said:
<snip>Also JR was not speaking to him on the 911 call, if BR was a witness surely JR would want him on his side?<snip>
Click to expand...

I've always interpreted John's "We're not speaking to you" to Burke during the 911 call not as "We're not speaking to you because of what you did", but as "We're not speaking to you. We're speaking to the 911 operator."
 
icedtea4me said:
I've always interpreted John's "We're not speaking to you" to Burke during the 911 call not as "We're not speaking to you because of what you did", but as "We're not speaking to you. We're speaking to the 911 operator."
Click to expand...

icedtea4me,
Fair comment, but would this not be self evident to Burke Ramsey?

.
 
UKGuy said:
Rain on my Parade,
BR's appearance on Dr Phil was a scripted affair. BR had his lines, yet as we know, he messed them up, e.g. memory was erased was likely meant to be something else, i.e. episodic ramnesia.

From what BR said and his impulsive grinning, it's safe to say he does not have an objective view of his sisters murder.

It's unlikely he walked in on anything, remember the bedroom doors had internal locks, so not much scope there.

Also JR was not speaking to him on the 911 call, if BR was a witness surely JR would want him on his side?

Psychotic, who knows. I reckon Patsy had issues, loadsa money and she wants her daughter to pursue a pageant career?

Patsy in her own way was just like JR self centered and focused on her goals, to the detriment of her children.

She considered JonBenet as a project, wow I thought when I read that, which then described Burke as a failed project, so Patsy dumped Burke in favor of JonBenet.
I reckon this is where any rivalry would have stemmed from between Burke and JonBenet.
Burke was likely jealous or angry JonBenet was receiving his mother's attention?

As a family they were dysfunctional, they all went their own way, pursuing their separate interests. John with his corporate career; Patsy with her social climbing agenda and faux art collecting; Burke with his typical male obsessions, knots, knives, video games, flying, sailing, etc; JonBenet copying her mother and grand-mother's pageant interests, leaving her vulnerable to external influence as all her role models were atypical.

So JonBenet was alone in a house she could not leave and dependent on her parents for external excursions.

So the Christmas Vacation presented the perfect storm for whomever was abusing JonBenet, as she had nowhere to go?

All the signs are there, if you care to look. Patsy drops hints in some of her interviews.

Is the case a sexual assault gone wrong, a bed wetting gone wrong or parental anger gone wrong?

.
Click to expand...

I was talking about BR and what he saw in the basement. After all, that was the story he told less then 2 weeks after the murder to the good doctor. In the basement, took out a knife, hit her over the head. Not worried, just getting on with my life. I didn’t understand how the bedroom doors came into topic.

As for PR dropping hints ... Are you by chance in the process of writing a book?

As for the type of case it is, I would say 1 and 2. I question number 3 unless it was PR.
 
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