Netflix - Elisa Lam

[Algo214]

She could have been having a dissociative episode on top of a psychotic episode, making her go to a "unknown place" less strange.
I don't see the comment I'm referring to but if she had been in the middle of a psychotic episode with dissociation she not only would've been having hallucinations/delusions but would've had an out of body experience or feeling that her surroundings weren't real.
Of course, this is speculation and we will never know, but to my knowledge it would explain why she went to such a strange place.

 

[data_nerd_2005]

If you take the time to go through the threads on this site about her death from years ago, you will clearly see that she had a mental health episode and that it was the cause of her death (not murder). As somebody who has family members and an ex with Bipolar Type 1, I can guarantee that all evidence points to her having a manic/psychotic episode. Her irrational behavior fits perfectly with how somebody who is off of their medication may act. Such a tragic loss, and I strongly dislike how the Netflix doc stringed along the "murder" plot to leave room for doubt in terms of what actually happened.

 

[Anthony789]

Ok people, Occam’s Razor. There is NO, i repeat, NO evidence of foul play, not one shred. What there IS evidence of, i repeat, IS evidence of, is a troubled woman suffering with bi-polar, who has ceased to take her medication acting erratically. The logical & evidentiary conclusion is a simple one. A woman suffering with clear mental health issues, who has stopped taking her medication, tslked of suicide in her online posts, has a mental breakdown. Climbs to the roof of her hotel & commits suicide. A very tragic tale.

 

[chills80]

I could be on board with the psychotic break theory, but there's still 53 minutes of missing elevator recording. That is what points the most to murder.

 

[squareandrabbet]

If you take the time to go through the threads on this site about her death from years ago, you will clearly see that she had a mental health episode and that it was the cause of her death (not murder). As somebody who has family members and an ex with Bipolar Type 1, I can guarantee that all evidence points to her having a manic/psychotic episode. Her irrational behavior fits perfectly with how somebody who is off of their medication may act. Such a tragic loss, and I strongly dislike how the Netflix doc stringed along the "murder" plot to leave room for doubt in terms of what actually happened.

Agreed. I went into the documentary cold (no reviews), and thought I was going to see much, much more about the history of the hotel itself, considering the number of hours devoted.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

She could have been having a dissociative episode on top of a psychotic episode, making her go to a "unknown place" less strange.
I don't see the comment I'm referring to but if she had been in the middle of a psychotic episode with dissociation she not only would've been having hallucinations/delusions but would've had an out of body experience or feeling that her surroundings weren't real.
Of course, this is speculation and we will never know, but to my knowledge it would explain why she went to such a strange place.

One in a manic psychotic break usually flies into an ecstatic delusional epiphany of grandiosity. It’s downhill from there as reality disagrees and fights the stimulating euphoria.

 

[data_nerd_2005]

One in a manic psychotic break usually flies into an ecstatic delusional epiphany of grandiosity. It’s downhill from there as reality disagrees and fights the stimulating euphoria.

Exactly this. Until you have dealt with somebody having a manic psychotic break, it is hard to understand how somebody who might be rational and very intelligent most of the time can be so far gone from reality. From experience, I can say that it is bewildering to watch and that there is little that you can do to stop somebody having an episode from following their impulses and believing their hallucinations. I have seen a very serious, rational, software engineer manager with BP1 jump into a NYC river during a manic episode because they believed that God was telling them they needed to swim home. I would not doubt that Elisa believed that she had to go to the roof due to a hallucination, and once there somehow managed to have another hallucination telling her to go into the tank. Absolutely heartbreaking and hard to understand: which is why it is easier to float around speculation of murder rather than accepting the evidence for a psychotic episode.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Exactly this. Until you have dealt with somebody having a manic psychotic break, it is hard to understand how somebody who might be rational and very intelligent most of the time can be so far gone from reality. From experience, I can say that it is bewildering to watch and that there is little that you can do to stop somebody having an episode from following their impulses and believing their hallucinations. I have seen a very serious, rational, software engineer manager with BP1 jump into a NYC river during a manic episode because they believed that God was telling them they needed to swim home. I would not doubt that Elisa believed that she had to go to the roof due to a hallucination, and once there somehow managed to have another hallucination telling her to go into the tank. Absolutely heartbreaking and hard to understand: which is why it is easier to float around speculation of murder rather than accepting the evidence for a psychotic episode.

I feel as if Elisa and I are kindred spirits. Takes one to know one. I understand her. I understand her intellectually extroverted mind. I understand her mind trapped in a chemically imbalanced body with an introverted creative soul. Believing there is more than one personality within the self is a symptom of a greater causation. The constant struggle between mania and depression emits turmoil. The mind doesn’t understand these conflicting emotions. I understand her weakness. I understand her strength. I understand her hyper-impulsivity. I’m fearful to seriously put myself out there-in there... I haven’t watched the entire doc screen for screen and probably won’t. I don’t believe she thought she was committing suicide. It’s possible her megalomaniacal severe psychosis birthed visions of invincibility with super human strength evolving into karmic everlasting life.

 

[Mka28]

Unfortunately, I once ID a Jane Doe. She had jumped off a parking garage in Los Angeles. It was so sad. She had recently been to jail, and gave the name "Jane Doe." So all they had was a picture. I found her on Facebook. Her family didn't want to believe she committed suicide. We watched the parking garage videos, and it showed only her on the top. She had packed up her apartment and gave her belongings. Her son was no longer in her custody, and she wasn't taking her medication anymore.
I feel Elisa set out on her trip making the same trip. She never planned on going back. After reading her Tumblr, you get the sense she is very sad. The behavior in the elevator reminds me of the people we see in on the streets who go off their meds. They are fighting the air, hallucinating and not making any sense. I honestly feel the hotel dropped the ball big time. I would've called her emergency contact, (if any listed) or someone. It's alarming how vague the manager was about the situation. You can tell that manager just lacks some serious compassion skills. The girls in her room could've even snatched her phone and reached out to a relative. We need to help each other out. Seek help for others.

 

[Qrious]

Not taking her med and having a psychotic episode is one thing. Yes, it could have been the cause of her death. But all other contrary facts should have explanations too.

The water tank lid still bothers me. Initially revealed as closed and left at that for how long I don't know. Then suddenly learned from Netflix that it was opened. Conveniently explained away as miscommunication by LAPD, and the maintenance guy seems to have changed his story.

And the anomalies in the elevator video - the blurred time stamp, the deliberate slowed speed and the total about one minute cuts all can be explained. But why the pixelation of her mouth when she was, like, smiling? If the video was slowed down so that the public can have a better look at her, then why pixelate her mouth? Besides, the video being so blur, slowing it down didn't help much to get people to recognise her. Her clear photo would do the job. Slowing the video only served to make her behaviour more bizarre. Was that the real purpose? Together with the pixelation, it actually bring out this thought from the back of my mind, which I never wanted to think of as it is quite ludicrous, was the girl in the video really Elisa Lam?

 

[MsBetsy]

Not taking her med and having a psychotic episode is one thing. Yes, it could have been the cause of her death. But all other contrary facts should have explanations too.

The water tank lid still bothers me. Initially revealed as closed and left at that for how long I don't know. Then suddenly learned from Netflix that it was opened. Conveniently explained away as miscommunication by LAPD, and the maintenance guy seems to have changed his story.

And the anomalies in the elevator video - the blurred time stamp, the deliberate slowed speed and the total about one minute cuts all can be explained. But why the pixelation of her mouth when she was, like, smiling? If the video was slowed down so that the public can have a better look at her, then why pixelate her mouth? Besides, the video being so blur, slowing it down didn't help much to get people to recognise her. Her clear photo would do the job. Slowing the video only served to make her behaviour more bizarre. Was that the real purpose? Together with the pixelation, it actually bring out this thought from the back of my mind, which I never wanted to think of as it is quite ludicrous, was the girl in the video really Elisa Lam?

It was not suddenly revealed the lid was left open. It has been known since at least 2015 and is in the court documents. I don't think the maintenance guy ever changed his story. It should have been corrected by LE in the media, considering all the speculation it caused.

And yes, it is Elisa Lam in the video. Facial recognition technology would have confirmed it was her if there was any doubt. They were hoping slowing it down would help someone to recognize her, but it just created more speculation. She was found with the same clothing she had been wearing in the video.

I thought LE said they didn't alter the video in any other way so I'm not sure what you mean by the pixilated mouth. Doesn't that just occur in random places without having to add it?

 

[glamourkitty1922]

In the Netflix documentary, John Lordan seemed so surprised about the water tank hatch being found open? But, Santiago Lopez testified to that fact back in 2015 at the wrongful death lawsuit, filed by the Lam family against the Cecil Hotel. The info was so easy to find this.

"I noticed the hatch to the main water tank was open and looked inside and saw an Asian woman lying face-up in the water approximately twelve inches from the top of the tank," he said.

Did Lordan just not believe Mr. Lopez?
It was strange.

Cecil Hotel Employee Explains How He Found The Body Of Elisa Lam

I remember watching his podcast about the Lam V Cecil lawsuit and he straight out thought it was all a lie and a coverup in my opinion. He was really down the conspiracy rabbit hole.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Hoping someone can provide some clarification for me on this, just because my knowledge on it is nil:

Do elevator system have a system log / history that is stored when interaction with the system happens? Is it possible, or worth trying, to pull logs off of the elevator system to shed light on which floor an elevator is called to, what buttons are pressed, whether to door closes and the car moves and goes to which floor? Just thinking out loud but this could have helped with the determination of whether or not someone was holding the elevator at the floor by pushing the call button, thus not allowing it to travel. Based on the information presented it was stated that she probably pushed the door hold button but at least, again if possible, would have shed some light.

Just curious.

It was an old elevator so it's doubtful that it kept records of any kind. There was nobody pressing the outer button, Elisa pressed the hold button. It's on the video, she pressed all the buttons down the middle.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I could be on board with the psychotic break theory, but there's still 53 minutes of missing elevator recording. That is what points the most to murder.

No, the video wasn't edited That's in the interview with the detective and in the lawsuit.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I remember watching his podcast about the Lam V Cecil lawsuit and he straight out thought it was all a lie and a coverup in my opinion. He was really down the conspiracy rabbit hole.

By the end of the documentary JL admits he erred in expressing doubt that this was anything other than an accident.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

By the end of the documentary JL admits he erred in expressing doubt that this was anything other than an accident.

The podcast I was talking about was a year or so ago when he was doing all those podcasts on Elisa. I'm not sure what changed his mind, but he said he was very into conspiracies at the time.

 

[Qrious]

It was not suddenly revealed the lid was left open. It has been known since at least 2015 and is in the court documents. I don't think the maintenance guy ever changed his story. It should have been corrected by LE in the media, considering all the speculation it caused.

And yes, it is Elisa Lam in the video. Facial recognition technology would have confirmed it was her if there was any doubt. They were hoping slowing it down would help someone to recognize her, but it just created more speculation. She was found with the same clothing she had been wearing in the video.

I thought LE said they didn't alter the video in any other way so I'm not sure what you mean by the pixilated mouth. Doesn't that just occur in random places without having to add it?

Thanks for the clarification. There was confusion even amongst LAPD personnel for a such a key evidence as to whether the lid was closed or open. And it was only at the lawsuit hearing in 2015 that it was conclusively made known that the lid was open. Did the autopsy report in 2013 mention at all that the lid was open?

I can accept at face value the lid was open but it is very dubious why such a material evidence, which was very easy to determine, was left so ambiguous until 2015.

As for the video, the reason it was slowed down was explained by police as wanting people to have a clearer look at Lam. No reason was given for the cuts. Netizens speculated that the cuts were to remove uninvolved others captured in the video. But that begs the question - why was it necessary at all to show the elevator operating normally, closing and opening on different floors? If it was to prevent speculation about the functioning of the elevator, then shouldn't the slowing down, editing and time code blurring be made known and explained upfront too?

And this is most puzzling aspect of the video. If watching the original slowed down version, at 0:33, the moment Lam stood at the lift buttons corner and we can see almost her full face, the right half of her face breaks into a blur, almost exactly down a center line. This does not occur on any other parts of the video. Then as she moved forward at 0:37, you can see distinct pixelation of her mouth. The blur follows the right half of her face.

At first, I dismissed them as technical glitches. But isn't it really odd that the moment we should be able to see her mouth and the right half of her face clearly, this technical blurring of her face features occurs? Notice also that just as she started to move forward at 0:37, she looked upward towards the direction of the camera and the pixelation became very furious.

These screenshots are from the original video. On the upscaled 4K video, the pixelations are even clearer.

 

[K9Enzo]

I watched the short Netflix series on Elisa Lam. IMO, this series highlighted the worst of the on-line sleuthing community and how damaging false accusations can be on someone's life. I also think this is one example of why LE has a love/hate relationship with the public when it comes to investigations. IMO

IMO, this was not foul play, but the story of a struggling mentally ill young woman. The elevator video was so sad to watch when you understand the context of it. IMO

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Thanks for the clarification. There was confusion even amongst LAPD personnel for a such a key evidence as to whether the lid was closed or open. And it was only at the lawsuit hearing in 2015 that it was conclusively made known that the lid was open. Did the autopsy report in 2013 mention at all that the lid was open?

I can accept at face value the lid was open but it is very dubious why such a material evidence, which was very easy to determine, was left so ambiguous until 2015.

As for the video, the reason it was slowed down was explained by police as wanting people to have a clearer look at Lam. No reason was given for the cuts. Netizens speculated that the cuts were to remove uninvolved others captured in the video. But that begs the question - why was it necessary at all to show the elevator operating normally, closing and opening on different floors? If it was to prevent speculation about the functioning of the elevator, then shouldn't the slowing down, editing and time code blurring be made known and explained upfront too?

And this is most puzzling aspect of the video. If watching the original slowed down version, at 0:33, the moment Lam stood at the lift buttons corner and we can see almost her full face, the right half of her face breaks into a blur, almost exactly down a center line. This does not occur on any other parts of the video. Then as she moved forward at 0:37, you can see distinct pixelation of her mouth. The blur follows the right half of her face.

At first, I dismissed them as technical glitches. But isn't it really odd that the moment we should be able to see her mouth and the right half of her face clearly, this technical blurring of her face features occurs? Notice also that just as she started to move forward at 0:37, she looked upward towards the direction of the camera and the pixelation became very furious.

These screenshots are from the original video. On the upscaled 4K video, the pixelations are even clearer.

View attachment 286192
View attachment 286193

What the police gave the media is exactly what they took from the Cecil video files. Also, the police say they didn't speed up the film, the Cecil didn't even examine the video before the police, so the "slowing" was the editing of the video. You find that in the lawsuit, pages 16 thru 18. It was originally the video shown by the media. That is the unedited video.

Here is an answer to why video goes pixilated. Pixelation usually happens when you compress the data in video files to make the video files smaller and reduce memory usage. This excessive compression, however, could negatively affect video quality. Some of the data encoded in the video are permanently erased, thereby creating the "pixelation" effect on the video.

 

[fairysenses]

Second episode in on the netflix doc.
First of all the hotel manager I get a bad vibe from. There's something I don't like about her. Second did the police find out what floor she was on when she kept looking out the elevator? Did they interview the people on that floor she kept jumping out on? What were the complaints from the other girls she was bunking with it? What day did she fill the scripts and how many pills were left on the last day She was alive. I think she was talking to someone down the hall and someone was holding the button. Did they interview the girls she bunked with? Was she sexually assaulted and then forced into the tank? Was it about humiliation? They made her take her clothes off and threw them in the tank and she jumped in to get them, then the people closed the lid. I do think it was someone who knew the building so a long time resident or someone who worked there. Oh and what was the book about, the one from the book store? The amount of time and being in water diminishes evidence. Lots of crazy coincidences, I definitely don't think the metal rocker killed Elisa. I think it's stupid to connect him to it.