OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #59

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I wonder when they threw the parts to the suppresser into the well? I think that the suppresser that ATF found was the first the killers made, and that wasn’t quite right so they made another for the murders. Like GW4 said if they got the suppresser than they have the gun, JMO

Interesting. They got rid of the guns with the silencers still attached. Good call.

The one in the well they did shoot it at least once, there was a distinct firing pin impression on it that BCI found out is a unique distinct marking from firing the Walther Colt. German company, BCI talked to people in the company.

They fired it but it wasn't working right so they ditched it. I'm sure your right.
 
Interesting. They got rid of the guns with the silencers still attached. Good call.

The one in the well they did shoot it at least once, there was a distinct firing pin impression on it that BCI found out is a unique distinct marking from firing the Walther Colt. German company, BCI talked to people in the company.

They fired it but it wasn't working right so they ditched it. I'm sure your right.

The silencer will not have a firing pin impressions on it. The shell casing has that from the bullet being fired from the gun.
 
The silencer will not have a firing pin impressions on it. The shell casing has that from the bullet being fired from the gun.

There has to be a way to connect the silencer to the actual crime scenes. Do you think it's the wadding or something else?

I 100% believe the State has the evidence proving the connection to the crime scenes. I am just curious if it is fiber evidence etc.
 
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The silencer will not have a firing pin impressions on it. The shell casing has that from the bullet being fired from the gun.

That makes perfect sense thanks.

So I wonder why Scheiderer said they could tell that the silencer had been fired at least once because of an impression in it that comes from a Walther Colt? I plan to go back to listen to how he phrased it exactly.

The same firing pin impression on the shell casings at both the Wagner house and UHR crime scenes is good evidence for LE. Unique to Walther Colt. It's Jake's 22 automatic that is the Walther Colt.

22 long rifle Scheiderer said but you had explained to me before that the long rifle refers to the type of ammo, not type of gun, if I'm remembering correctly.....2 Cents.....
 
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When’s next batch of court dates?

Also

what is wrong with AW where she has to go get medical treatment?

Billy has a hearing in April, George's attorneys are trying to get one scheduled and Jake's attorneys put in a motion to get a hearing as soon as possible. Jake has a hearing scheduled in May but apparently his attorneys need one sooner.

No one can disclose anyone's medical information. Angela has been in jail for over 2 years and may not be sick but just need an X-Ray or mediacal tests as part of a physical, or need to see an optometrist for her glasses, any number of things that can't be done in a jail clinic over 2 years time.

Jail medical care is not great when your in there for literally years. If she is sick I hope she recovers for trial. Facts come out in trial that the family will want to hear....2 cents....
 
Billy has a hearing in April, George's attorneys are trying to get one scheduled and Jake's attorneys put in a motion to get a hearing as soon as possible. Jake has a hearing scheduled in May but apparently his attorneys need one sooner.

No one can disclose anyone's medical information. Angela has been in jail for over 2 years and may not be sick but just need an X-Ray or mediacal tests as part of a physical, or need to see an optometrist for her glasses, any number of things that can't be done in a jail clinic over 2 years time.

Jail medical care is not great when your in there for literally years. If she is sick I hope she recovers for trial. Facts come out in trial that the family will want to hear....2 cents....
Angela needs some kind of medical care and George and Jake seem frantic to schedule hearings. Are Jake and George in a race to get their 'facts' out before Angie says something?
Or, are Jake and George in a race against each other?
I still think something is up with George that w don't realize.
On George and his ex wife who is named as a witness.
I wonder how long the ex wife was living with George and had daily exposure or access to entire W family. She may have all kinds of prior bad acts by W's that she can reveal, just because she heard it while in the house with them. That could be part of the reason for the emphasis on allowing prior bad acts to come in at trial.

Anyone have her timeline handy? She had to be in the know as to what W's were discussing, well before the birth of S.
 
That makes perfect sense thanks.

So I wonder why Scheiderer said they could tell that the silencer had been fired at least once because of an impression in it that comes from a Walther Colt? I plan to go back to listen to how he phrased it exactly.

The same firing pin impression on the shell casings at both the Wagner house and UHR crime scenes is good evidence for LE. Unique to Walther Colt. It's Jake's 22 automatic that is the Walther Colt.

22 long rifle Scheiderer said but you had explained to me before that the long rifle refers to the type of ammo, not type of gun, if I'm remembering correctly.....2 Cents.....

You have two subjects mixed together. It is .22LR bullet shell casings with the unique firing pin mark.
If a homemade silencer isn’t drilled perfectly, the first bullet fired will hit the side of the hole in the baffle and leave a mark. That and there will be gun powder residue in the silencer.
 
There has to be a way to connect the silencer to the actual crime scenes. Do you think it's the wadding or something else?

I 100% believe the State has the evidence proving the connection to the crime scenes. I am just curious if it is fiber evidence etc.

It is very possible that silencer “wadding” was found at the crime scenes.
 
You have two subjects mixed together. It is .22LR bullet shell casings with the unique firing pin mark.
If a homemade silencer isn’t drilled perfectly, the first bullet fired will hit the side of the hole in the baffle and leave a mark. That and there will be gun powder residue in the silencer.

Is this the mark BCI saw that tells them the silencer in the well was fired? I'm 100% sure he said it was fired.

I agree with Johnny that the well silencer isn't necessarily the one used in the murders. It could be the first one they made and they didn't get it right.
They also burned it but still BCI got the serial numbers.

The reason it might not have been used that night comes from George's own mouth, quote:

"If they have the gun they have the silencer."

They didn't take time to disconnect the silencer(s) from the gun(s) and it would make zero sense to do that.....2 Cents......
 
Angela needs some kind of medical care and George and Jake seem frantic to schedule hearings. Are Jake and George in a race to get their 'facts' out before Angie says something?
Or, are Jake and George in a race against each other?
I still think something is up with George that w don't realize.
On George and his ex wife who is named as a witness.
I wonder how long the ex wife was living with George and had daily exposure or access to entire W family. She may have all kinds of prior bad acts by W's that she can reveal, just because she heard it while in the house with them. That could be part of the reason for the emphasis on allowing prior bad acts to come in at trial.

Anyone have her timeline handy? She had to be in the know as to what W's were discussing, well before the birth of S.

I think right now George's attorney just wants a typical Motion Hearing which is par for the course.

I think the only thing George is "frantic" about as you put it, is not getting Bond and having heard in open court several of the incriminating texts/calls he made.

Like, Scheiderer texted him a gun photo matching Jake's 22 Colt revolver that Jake had on his phone.

So George immediately texts/calls his family that they have a family emergency and tells Jake if they have the gun they have the silencer.

He knew he was being bugged but didn't seem to understand that his phone was also bugged. How else can it be explained that he would incriminate himself over the phone?

I am going to paraphrase this in my own words from Jake's Docket:

Jake's attorneys want a hearing as soon as possible because they don't seem to "trust" that the prosecution has turned over all the Discovery yet.

Specifically:

Transcripts of audio recordings and the "Other Acts Evidence" they will use against Jake.

I don't think George is racing Jake to have his trial first, I think George wants to see what happens to Jake in his trial so that his attorney can get a "heads up" and steer clear of the guilty verdict that is coming for Jake. Too much evidence against Jake including evidence that is actually missing, all that murder kit stuff, Canepa pointed this out.

Jake could probably win his case if he could produce every murder kit item he bought, showing the "real reason" he purchased them. That this is missing and that his 22 Walter Colt is missing is a "smoking gun." If I was wrongly indicted on murder charges I would hand over my gun and all those items they accuse me of using in the murders - "you got the wrong person, here is some proof."

(My perspective)
 
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WAGNER, IV, GEORGE WASHINGTON

(MOTION #61)

MOTION TO EXCLUDE PHOTOS OF WEAPONS, SHELL CASINGS, AND RELATED ITEMS.

(MOTION #63)
MOTION TO REQUIRE THE GOVERNMENT TO REVEAL ANY AGREEMENT, CONDITIONAL OR OTHERWISE, WITH ANY PROSECTION WITNESS INCLUDING LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, THAT COULD INFLUENCE HIS OR HER TESTIMONY.

From George's failed Bond Hearing - Canepa looks very serious :confused: towards George's attorney.

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George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details
 
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CC did you ever find the picture that Jake sent Hanna May of that gun, it was on the HMR FB, I saw it a while back when CR posted some pictures of HMR, but can’t find it now, one of the pieces of evidence is his hand holding that pistol, it shows his ring tattoo, JMO
 
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I think the podcast on the Rhodens and Wagners is very interesting and worth a listen....Seriously.

Do you all think that everything quoted by an insider in a MSM article is actually fact?

Did Jake and Angela tell the true facts of the case to journalist Chris Graves?

You get lies to MSM journalists all the time by defendants.

So same in podcasts.

Truth and lies my friends - truth and lies- up to us to try to sort out the difference until we get a trial that lays it all out there.

Can't wait.

Since you asked, I think most of what's printed or featured on MSM is quite questionable in terms of "facts." So, I'm going to wait for the trials. (At least with them, I'll have a sense who is lying.) ;)
 
CC did you ever find the picture that Jake sent Hanna May of that gun, it was on the HMR FB, I saw it a while back when CR posted some pictures of HMR, but can’t find it now, one of the pieces of evidence is his hand holding that pistol, it shows his ring tattoo, JMO

That photo is long gone and now rests with Canepa. There is a photo on Jake's phone of his hand holding his 22 Walther Colt semi automatic and his palm print is visible and BCI print analysis was able to match the phone palm print to Jake's real palm print after he was arrested, according to Canepa and Scheiderer at George's Bond Hearing.

That photo of his gun he sent to Hanna on Facebook is likely the same photo that is on his phone and now in evidence. Scheiderer said they think this gun or the same type of gun was used in the murders so the Jury will really get an eye opener with this gun photo....In my opinion.

...2 Cents...

Since you asked, I think most of what's printed or featured on MSM is quite questionable in terms of "facts." So, I'm going to wait for the trials. (At least with them, I'll have a sense who is lying.) ;)

My post your quoting is the one where I recommend the Podcast. I do not recommend it anymore because the person who gives out the information on the Wagners will not give her name. I can't take someone seriously when they hide behind anonymous.

I said the same thing, that I like trials because they get to the bare bones truth.
As for believing the MSM, I consider the source. When LM spoke to the media I believe it was the dog gone truth and I'm right....He said back in April 2016 that it might be over custody. I found his interview saying that.

Anyway, I believe Tony and Kendra and Dana's nursing home friends and all the friends and family when they speak to MSM.

I do not believe anything the Wagners said in their Chris Graves interviews.
Like I said, consider the source.

...2 Cents...
 
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That photo is long gone and now rests with Canepa. There is a photo on Jake's phone of his hand holding his 22 Walther Colt semi automatic and his palm print is visible and BCI print analysis was able to match the phone palm print to Jake's real palm print after he was arrested, according to Canepa and Scheiderer at George's Bond Hearing.

That photo of his gun he sent to Hanna on Facebook is likely the same photo that is on his phone and now in evidence. Scheiderer said they think this gun or the same type of gun was used in the murders so the Jury will really get an eye opener with this gun photo....In my opinion.

...2 Cents...



My post your quoting is the one where I recommend the Podcast. I do not recommend it anymore because the person who gives out the information on the Wagners will not give her name. I can't take someone seriously when they hide behind anonymous.

I said the same thing, that I like trials because they get to the bare bones truth.
As for believing the MSM, I consider the source. When LM spoke to the media I believe it was the dog gone truth and I'm right....He said back in April 2016 that it might be over custody. I found his interview saying that.

Anyway, I believe Tony and Kendra and Dana's nursing home friends and all the friends and family when they speak to MSM.

I do not believe anything the Wagners said in their Chris Graves interviews.
Like I said, consider the source.

...2 Cents...

I agree. Consider the source and also if the source is presenting the video or comments in whole or parsed or manipulated. I think the Manley's were very truthful. I just don't fully trust ANY MSM or secondary source these days.
 
I agree. Consider the source and also if the source is presenting the video or comments in whole or parsed or manipulated. I think the Manley's were very truthful. I just don't fully trust ANY MSM or secondary source these days.

I see where your coming from.

Chris Graves and Jody Barr used to write articles for Local News about the Rhoden/Gilley Case quoting family, friends, LE, the Wagners and what was said in Court Hearings and Court Documents.

Notice how they did not include their own personal opinions about the case.

A red flag to me is when a writer of an article starts giving their own personal opinions and/or uses multiple quotes from unnamed people. Here is an example:

"Murder on Union Hill Road" by Kathleen Hale.

This article, quoted on social media, is filled with negative quotes from unidentified locals and the author's own extreamly negative opinions about everyone's lifestyle, even remarking that the Rhoden gravesite isn't as nice as another gravesite nearby.

This particular article comes up sometimes when searches are made on the Rhodens. I remember there were discussions on here about this article, including myself referencing it.

Eventually I looked further into this article and discovered it isn't even a MSM
article!

So now I not only look for unbiased articles that use quotes with people's names, but I am also trying to be more careful of the actual source of the article itself!
 
First off, this is the 1st I've heard about the possibility of Jake posting from Dana's Facebook account that night. The Facebook post to BJM asking her what she was doing there on UHR that night.

Jake trying to bring suspicion on BJM as if she was over there on the night of the murders.

Well this can be debunked, the Wagners are shortsighted to say the least. All BJM had to do was show she was somewhere else that night, claim to have not been over there that night, to have been home instead etc...

And what happens then? Well, it gives more fuel to the fire that the Wagner's were manipulating the crime scenes.

Secondly, it makes no sense Jake was feeding LE false information the very first hours.

How would Jake know anything about it? The Wagners had to pretend to be fast asleep in their beds that morning not knowing anything until later on when they were up starting their day and someone called them.

They had to act like they had no idea what the heck was going on.

I think this is the narrative they kept until maybe Jake's first interview a month after the murders in late May of 2016 when he was probably asked who might have done it. At that point he maybe let loose on the Manleys.

BJM was asked how much money she was paid to kill her family right away in the first 24 hours, LE suspected her because she found the crime scenes not because of what Jake said. I do not think Jake talked with BCI until they initiated their first conversation with him.

The thing about BCI telling her they thought she was at Chris Sr's earlier than she said? Could be smoke and mirrors. Made up. LE can lie to the hills to get suspects to talk.

The James Manley texting Jake at 2:00am? Could be made up BS. Never underestimate BCI and what they will say to try to get confessions.

Interesting argument, but I still think Jake was planting false info in those early hours.

He assumed (correctly) that all he had to do was provide similar "tips" to LE to point them towards the Manleys.

How else did LE decide to pounce immediately on BJM and JM? How did they come up with the accusation that someone had "paid" the Manleys to kill their family members? Within an hour or two of discovering the bodies, LE already had a "plot" they were working with to question and accuse the Manleys. It was more than making up a few lies, it sounded much more like a fully formed theory, JMO.

It would also be very characteristic (and accurate) for the Wagners to assume that LE would always take their word against that of the Manleys and Rhodens. Wagners lived "close to the cross", were upstanding citizens and all.

Wagners knew they could become suspects because of the custody fight between Jake and Hanna. LE knew about the fight that had happened in the weeks before, Len talked about it on worldwide live news coverage. Yet, LE immediately jumped on the Manleys and stayed there for the better part of a year.

Wagners had to come up with something that would direct attention to the Manleys. They had been surveilling the victims, they knew BJM was going to water the plants at CR1's every morning. They knew BJM would be the first to find the bodies. All it took was planting digital evidence on the victims' social media accounts and calling in a few tips to LE with a ready-made story.

Charlie Reader mentioned "All the lies they told us". Those lies started that morning and they probably came from Jake, possibly Angela. Later they came from the rest of the family, including FW. The Wagner lies are still being told today.

JMO

Also found it interesting that, when BCI was finally searching the Peterson Rd. farm and the used car business, Leonard Manley still didn't think LE was going to solve the case. He probably knew it was the Wagners, he just didn't think LE would accept that without a lot of evidence.


The following weekend, not much had changed

 
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