UK UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #6

[linconnue]

I would maybe agree with you if this was the first few weeks of the first lockdown in London, nearly a year ago, in terms of the level of 'fear' around lockdown rules. But the atmosphere here, given we are coming out of our third wave, is that clearly, lots of people are not or have not been following the rules. Also - there is no curfew, she was walking home - she wasn't stopped just leaving her friends house, we know she was atleast 20mins walk away from there. So she was just walking home, could have been for exercise, could have been back from the shops.

I would maybe agree with you if this was the first few weeks of the first lockdown in London, nearly a year ago, in terms of the level of 'fear' around lockdown rules. But the atmosphere here, given we are coming out of our third wave, is that clearly, lots of people are not or have not been following the rules. Also - there is no curfew, she was walking home - she wasn't stopped just leaving her friends house, we know she was atleast 20mins walk away from there. So she was just walking home, could have been for exercise, could have been back from the shops.

I would maybe agree with you if this was the first few weeks of the first lockdown in London, nearly a year ago, in terms of the level of 'fear' around lockdown rules. But the atmosphere here, given we are coming out of our third wave, is that clearly, lots of people are not or have not been following the rules. Also - there is no curfew, she was walking home - she wasn't stopped just leaving her friends house, we know she was atleast 20mins walk away from there. So she was just walking home, could have been for exercise, could have been back from the shops.

Yeah I completely agree. She could’ve been out for any reason. I guess the point I’m making is that for me personally (and I’m sure many others) being out and about right now is generally a bit fraught and you *feel* like you’re doing something wrong even if you’re not. Which changes the mindset of an otherwise common sense individual, especially when challenged by an officious sounding person carrying a badge. Most are likely to be more susceptible to coercion because of the current circumstances.

 

[chimpface]

Just my opinion and thought but the body or remains could be another woman’s? That might also be why press embargo. Until some form of ID.

I imagine his wife assisting offender might just be her providing false alibi. E.g. she might have said he had returned home at a certain time but they already had dash cam footage which they knew meant that couldn’t be the case.

Not a chance.

 

[jk1874]

Just my opinion and thought but the body or remains could be another woman’s? That might also be why press embargo. Until some form of ID.

I imagine his wife assisting offender might just be her providing false alibi. E.g. she might have said he had returned home at a certain time but they already had dash cam footage which they knew meant that couldn’t be the case.

This is what I thought, remains could mean that it's another body from months, years ago. Also I feel his wife may not have known what he had done and thought it was a minor offence that he was covering.

 

[TheBlueGuardian]

Guten Morgen

So now begins the long process of trying to unravel this insanity

Unless he talks, we may never know exactly what happened at 9.30pm

The hire car is evidence of premeditation.

It still makes no sense to me why he would plan such a brazen snatch from a busy road crawling with CCTV - how does a hire car protect his identity? Possibly this guy is simply a bit dim.

No wonder LE struck swiftly once the hire car became part of their canvassing. He would have a hard job explaining why he had a hire car in the area at the time.

This is a good observation. To add and consider IMO. The poi finishes work at 8pm. If he's doing armed details what's the process of handing in his weapon? He also needs to get to his car then drive to Poynders from where he did his shift. Did he then expose himself to someone else same location or different? This may give some time of the initial confrontation on whether or not he had time to imitate an on duty PO or if he snatched and subdued her right away. IMO it had to have been quick and some force must have been used. He may have known at that point there is not cctv at the point. Being on that road increases chances of people walking by.

 

[elliefant]

What is lye?

See:
Lye

Caustic solution used for drain unclogging, oven cleaning etc - has been used to dispose of bodies

 

[Coconutty]

I would be very surprised if he is saying anything other than no comment.

 

[Deathsgrandaughter]

The use of a hire car is bizarre, as so easily traceable and trackable. Maybe he felt untouchable? Or maybe he subconciously wanted to be caught. I knew someone who had abused young boys and indulged in watching child *advertiser censored* for years. He was caught when he decided to watch his movies on a laptop on a busy train. Makes no sense really, unless he wanted to be stopped, IMHO.

 

[SofKat]

The detained woman appears to work in the medical device development and production field. She fits the profile of the 'well trained in science / maths /engineering but what are my prospects?' Ukrainian. The university she went to is now in Russian side / 'separatist' territory and her posts in Ukrainian in social media are definitely not on that side. She will have a lot invested in being in the UK, probably in terms of having a family, not having long term settled status without her husband and not having good prospects if she went back to her home country. The reason for her being detained may be because she acted in some way to protect the arrested man because she had to quickly process the alternative. Of course there might be particular dynamics to the relationship that are not yet clear and this paragraph is just a speculative assessment.

 

[bubble007895]

they were looking specifically at cars on Poynders road in a small time window denoted by SE’s final conversation and the last phone mast ping. I always suspected it wasn’t that many vehicles in this particular window

yes and the live traffic cams

 

[Amax]

Well his wife might not have all the information and she'd be desperately wanting to believe there is some chance he isn't involved. I think its way too early to judge her yet.

 

[jk1874]

Do we know if his kids are with EC?

 

[Sherlockhames]

This is what I thought, remains could mean that it's another body from months, years ago. Also I feel his wife may not have known what he had done and thought it was a minor offence that he was covering.

I would imagine that even if they could only identify “human remains” without being able to say age, sex, size etc etc, forensically they are able to tell how recently they were placed there (or destroyed eg fire still smouldering or nothing washed away due to weather, or chemicals used still not fully leached into soil). And that that timing, combined with the suspicious movements of the suspect, leads them to the inevitable (dreadful) conclusion that they must be her (they were surely only searching that location because in some way his car/phone movements led them there).

 

[4NSIC]

First time poster here. I’m a clinical psychologist specialised in personality disorders and have a background in LE.

I think Sherlockhames has it broadly correct, according to what I’d expect to come out later.

A few points re other general discussions.

- “hands on” sex offenders tend to have a personality disorder, even if it is somewhat subtle
- psychopaths & those with other cluster B disorders are reasonably common in society
- they tend to have a lower than average IQ, possibly around the 90 mark
- premeditation and their -perception- of risk often shows hallmarks of low cunning rather than the glamourised, filmic, highly sophisticated psychopathic thinking style many imagine
- unsolved cases are predominantly due to loss of evidence over time rather than the skill of the perpetrators in covering the crime
- hire cars are not unusual in cases like this, the low cunning thinking style perceiving them less likely to be traced
- ANPR cams all over the UK lead LE to WC and he was subsequently subject to surveillance by plain clothes teams for days
- cordon at Poynders Court probably to some degree timed to give media smokescreen whilst arrest planned at WC’s home
- PaDP officers are almost always -not- trained in forensics, investigative policing techniques or related specialist functions
- PaDP are trained in tactics related to security and weapon handling, usually involving 5 week training sessions at a specialised residential facility in Kent
- This training is repeated every X months / years as are psychological screenings for ones suitability to be a firearms officer
- these screenings are not repeated often enough IMO as much can change between times and they are widely self report questionnaires which are known to be unrealiable
- one may expect that a sex offender would escalate from “hands off” ie flashing to “hands on” over time if he is subject to worsening mental health, fractures in personal relationships, death or illness in the family, a narcissistic injury such as humiliation at work or with his wife etc
- yes, it is possible that a first killing occurs at 48
- yes, it is statistically likely that Sarah got into his car voluntarily
- yes, it may have been an accidental killing as a result of a failed attempt at consensual sexual activity
- or a panic killing to reduce the chances of prosecution

EDIT to add: its highly unlikely that his Met issue taser or other weapon could be used in this attack as they are strictly booked in and out before & after shifts. However police CAN carry: baton, warrant ID, uniform, nylon cuffs, and other small items away from work easily / with permission.

There’s so much more to say but I have to go to work!

 

[merrypason]

Hello! I'm a new member and signed up after following all 6 of these threads, to help me make sense of a case that has really hit home. I'm the same age as Sarah, similar uni and profession, lived in London for the same amount of time, have lived and walked alone like her, and the same build. My partner is a police officer with the Met as well, so WC's involvement has really horrified me.

I've been trying to figure out his motivations, and how pre meditated this was. The Sun has reported he was working at the US Embassy from 2-8pm the day he kidnapped her (linked below). Which leaves 1.5 hours before he encountered her.

Now I assumed that DPG would have to go back to their base (Palace of Westminster, where his locker is) to hand back gun and change out of uniform. My partner always needs to go back to base after his patrol to change out of uniform as you can't leave your shift in it, less so with gun and body armour. That's a 10 min drive from the US Embassy back to base. Maybe 20 mins to change and clock out. That leaves an hour before he's on Poynders Road. And it's only a 30 min drive from Westminster to Poynders Court. Still leaves 30 mins, where he was doing what?

Even if he was just faffing at base before leaving, Poynders Road, and Clapham/Brixton is NOT the straightforward or quickest route to get back to Kent from either Westminster or the US Embassy. Clapham is too South West for where he needed to get to - and would make more sense to go South East via Oval/Camberwell. So he deliberately detoured out of the way, adding mileage to an already 2 hour commute home? Why?

There was a lot of searching of the Clapham ponds, which makes me wonder if he stopped off in Clapham Common, and if so why? It's dark and late, raining, nothing open in the park. Was it to look for lone women and indecently expose himself as the Common is good for that? Maybe he disposed of something in the ponds, like his clothing if he was being perverted. If he had stopped, he is likely to have seen Sarah walk past, so is this when he decided to grab her? Or did he know Sarah and the plan always was to grab her that day -hence the detour?

Poynders Road is the South Circular. For him to have made a split second decision to grab her on this busy arterial road with fast moving traffic and no real place to stop, seems unlikely. It feels like he either noticed her in Clapham Common as she walked past or knew her and had planned it in advance.

I had initially considered whether he was just a gun for hire, and someone had paid him to kidnap her/scare her but with this indecent exposure charge, I do wonder if he had set out that evening with the intention of indecently exposing himself and it just escalated with Sarah.

I cannot work out how he got her in the car. It's likely he flashed his warrant card, but Sarah would want to look at it closely and ask questions. And I don't know how they'd have time for this encounter on that busy road where he's holding up traffic by stopping. I feel their searches of the kerb and drain must be related to this - but how? Is it possible she accidentally dropped her phone or something else in the drain while walking and he parked up to help her look?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14302109/sarah-everard-wayne-couzens-warrant-card/
Met cop 'may have used warrant card to entice Sarah Everard into car'

 

[mrjitty]

I would be very surprised if he is saying anything other than no comment.

This is my fear as well.

He'll probably try to dream up some absurd defence for trial. They usually do.

 

[Howinthisdayandage]

I’m new to this site in the last week and have been following the news and this thread, it’s really struck home with me even though I don’t live in London, I used to walk around London in the dark after I finished work when I was in my early 20s.
If I remember the evening correctly it was not only wet but really cold and therefore not great driving conditions. As we drive on the left in the UK and the pavement they were searching was on the left side of the road, if the person suspected of carrying this out had remained in the car at first, how would they have known what the person they were calling over looked like? They would have had a back view of a coat and probably a hat or hood, no view of facial features, idea of age or fitness. To have identified a potential target they must have had a frontal view and for a little while to make the assessment that this was someone to go after. That means the car must have been parked somewhere with easy access to make a quick get away or they were not acting alone.

 

[jk1874]

I would imagine that even if they could only identify “human remains” without being able to say age, sex, size etc etc, forensically they are able to tell how recently they were placed there (or destroyed eg fire still smouldering or nothing washed away due to weather, or chemicals used still not fully leached into soil). And that that timing, combined with the suspicious movements of the suspect, leads them to the inevitable (dreadful) conclusion that they must be her (they were surely only searching that location because in some way his car/phone movements led them there).

True, but it could be another victim of his and it's a regular area he uses. It could be the beginning of an even more gruesome story :-(

 

[TheBlueGuardian]

I think a bit too much weight is being put on the fact that she was too savvy to get into his car. The mindset in the UK right now is mostly one of covid paranoia, further clouded by ever-changing rules. Whilst in no way criticising her, chances are SE knew she was gently bending a few of these rules - and (speaking for myself) when you’re in that mental space, you’re almost waiting to be pulled up for your actions. I would fully expect a lockdown enforcing officer to be plain clothes in a major inner city, and a convincing looking badge would seal the deal - even if it were just for long enough to restrain/‘ask some questions’.

It’s not worth losing sight of the fact that current social circumstances could make otherwise streetwise individuals make unusual or plain bad choices.

She hasn't bent the rules. She's perfectly in her right to visit a friend. I do the same thing right now. And if I were stopped I would say I was in my bubble.

 

[Inspectorbee1234]

Clapham ponds was searched thoroughly because at that point they had no idea where she was and if she had even made it out of the park at that stage.

 

[jk1874]

First time poster here. I’m a clinical psychologist specialised in personality disorders and have a background in LE.

I think Sherlockhames has it broadly correct, according to what I’d expect to come out later.

A few points re other general discussions.

- “hands on” sex offenders tend to have a personality disorder, even if it is somewhat subtle
- psychopaths & those with other cluster B disorders are reasonably common in society
- they tend to have a lower than average IQ, possibly around the 90 mark
- premeditation and their -perception- of risk often shows hallmarks of low cunning rather than the glamourised, filmic, highly sophisticated psychopathic thinking style many imagine
- unsolved cases are predominantly due to loss of evidence over time rather than the skill of the perpetrators in covering the crime
- hire cars are not unusual in cases like this, the low cunning thinking style perceiving them less likely to be traced
- ANPR cams all over the UK lead LE to WC and he was subsequently subject to surveillance by plain clothes teams for days
- cordon at Poynders Court probably to some degree timed to give media smokescreen whilst arrest planned at WC’s home
- PaDP officers are almost always -not- trained in forensics, investigative policing techniques or related specialist functions
- PaDP are trained in tactics related to security and weapon handling, usually involving 5 week training sessions at a specialised residential facility in Kent
- This training is repeated every X months / years as are psychological screenings for ones suitability to be a firearms officer
- these screenings are not repeated often enough IMO as much can change between times and they are widely self report questionnaires which are known to be unrealiable
- one may expect that a sex offender would escalate from “hands off” ie flashing to “hands on” over time if he is subject to worsening mental health, fractures in personal relationships, death or illness in the family, a narcissistic injury such as humiliation at work or with his wife etc
- yes, it is possible that a first killing occurs at 48
- yes, it is statistically likely that Sarah got into his car voluntarily
- yes, it may have been an accidental killing as a result of a failed attempt at consensual sexual activity
- or a panic killing to reduce the chances of prosecution

There’s so much more to say but I have to go to work!

I think the abuse of power to lure her into his car, then act normal for a bit, then a forced sexual act gone horribly wrong is the most likely.