Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #11

[frostyfox]

Hello everyone, I'm a newbie here, I've been following the conversations here for quite a few days and have found it to be a precise and grounded source of information in contrast to some confusion in the media and social media. Most importantly I've found the discussions here very thoughtful in preserving the dignity of tragic SE and her loved ones. I have a couple of questions that have been bothering and worrying me for days, as SE has been on my mind pretty much constantly since I found out about her disappearance. I am very familiar with all the areas in the investigation, as have lived for 28 years around the parts of SW London where SE visited, walked and lived, I also grew up in Kent and still have close family ties and friends in the Ashford and surrounding areas. Sorry for the long intro and apologies if I've missed the information I'm about to ask, as I'm still trying to navigate my way through all the threads about SE. Firstly, did the accused drive SE straight to any of the Kent sites as soon as she was abducted? Or is it possible he had lodgings somewhere close-by? I'm haunted by that car journey because I've driven from that part of SW London to Kent hundreds of times, so I know how long it takes! Was SE already deceased for the journey? Or still alive for the drive to Kent? Probably a stupid question, but has a motive been identified yet? I hope in asking these questions that I haven't broken any rules on here. Thanks everyone.

 

[sundaaaay]

Middletown

 

[JuicyLucy]

Why the hire car if unplanned?

To me, the obvious answer to this is that the accused's own car registration had been recorded in the course of the IE incident only three days earlier. I think he would be unsure how likely that was to be followed up on and might have intended to use the hire car for a while to avoid his own car being flagged up in the course of his normal commute.

I have been thinking a lot about the hire car, in particular the alleged footage showing it with hazards on and both doors open, which seems like an odd occurrence to me. As a driver, if you pull over and get out of your car, you close the door beind you pretty much automatically. That goes double on a busy road like the South Circular. Even if you don't care about the safety of your car or other road users, a drivers door wide open like that would draw (one presumes unwanted) attention to what the accused was doing. Added to that, Poynders Road is an uphill gradient as you drive east away from the Common, so even if you exited carelessly, the door would tend to fall closed by itself. What all of that says to me is that the drivers door in particular was opened hurriedly and with force. In addition the passenger door was open even though both people, as I understand it, were outside the car on the CCTV footage.

Based on this, I speculate that Sarah may have got into the car voluntarily, perhaps on the basis of a warrant card and a story of an attacker on the loose, etc, and that the accused then started to get into the car himself. At that point, I wonder if Sarah suddenly realised what she was doing was a bad idea, changed her mind and fled the vehicle leaving her door open, causing him to leave his side, flinging his door open abruptly in pursuit of her. He would then have to subdue her with force and get her into the car quickly before anyone noticed. I don't doubt he could have done so, but I also think this unexpected turn of events and the fear of perhaps having been seen may have started a cascade of unintended consequences that ended in her murder. (RIP)

Despite appearances, I don't think the role of the hire car necessarily demonstrates premeditation.

Of course this is all just speculation, MOO, etc.

 

[Barbieshell]

Hello everyone, I'm a newbie here, I've been following the conversations here for quite a few days and have found it to be a precise and grounded source of information in contrast to some confusion in the media and social media. Most importantly I've found the discussions here very thoughtful in preserving the dignity of tragic SE and her loved ones. I have a couple of questions that have been bothering and worrying me for days, as SE has been on my mind pretty much constantly since I found out about her disappearance. I am very familiar with all the areas in the investigation, as have lived for 28 years around the parts of SW London where SE visited, walked and lived, I also grew up in Kent and still have close family ties and friends in the Ashford and surrounding areas. Sorry for the long intro and apologies if I've missed the information I'm about to ask, as I'm still trying to navigate my way through all the threads about SE. Firstly, did WC drive SE straight to any of the Kent sites as soon as she was abducted? Or is it possible he had lodgings somewhere close-by? I'm haunted by that car journey because I've driven from that part of SW London to Kent hundreds of times, so I know how long it takes! Was SE already deceased for the journey? Or still alive for the drive to Kent? Probably a stupid question, but has a motive been identified yet? I hope in asking these questions that I haven't broken any rules on here. Thanks everyone.

The answer is - nobody knows this or has been privy to that information.

 

[asyousay]

Hello everyone, I'm a newbie here, I've been following the conversations here for quite a few days and have found it to be a precise and grounded source of information in contrast to some confusion in the media and social media. Most importantly I've found the discussions here very thoughtful in preserving the dignity of tragic SE and her loved ones. I have a couple of questions that have been bothering and worrying me for days, as SE has been on my mind pretty much constantly since I found out about her disappearance. I am very familiar with all the areas in the investigation, as have lived for 28 years around the parts of SW London where SE visited, walked and lived, I also grew up in Kent and still have close family ties and friends in the Ashford and surrounding areas. Sorry for the long intro and apologies if I've missed the information I'm about to ask, as I'm still trying to navigate my way through all the threads about SE. Firstly, did WC drive SE straight to any of the Kent sites as soon as she was abducted? Or is it possible he had lodgings somewhere close-by? I'm haunted by that car journey because I've driven from that part of SW London to Kent hundreds of times, so I know how long it takes! Was SE already deceased for the journey? Or still alive for the drive to Kent? Probably a stupid question, but has a motive been identified yet? I hope in asking these questions that I haven't broken any rules on here. Thanks everyone.

Most of these questions we simply don’t know I am afraid.

 

[Grouse]

Hello everyone, I'm a newbie here, I've been following the conversations here for quite a few days and have found it to be a precise and grounded source of information in contrast to some confusion in the media and social media. Most importantly I've found the discussions here very thoughtful in preserving the dignity of tragic SE and her loved ones. I have a couple of questions that have been bothering and worrying me for days, as SE has been on my mind pretty much constantly since I found out about her disappearance. I am very familiar with all the areas in the investigation, as have lived for 28 years around the parts of SW London where SE visited, walked and lived, I also grew up in Kent and still have close family ties and friends in the Ashford and surrounding areas. Sorry for the long intro and apologies if I've missed the information I'm about to ask, as I'm still trying to navigate my way through all the threads about SE. Firstly, did WC drive SE straight to any of the Kent sites as soon as she was abducted? Or is it possible he had lodgings somewhere close-by? I'm haunted by that car journey because I've driven from that part of SW London to Kent hundreds of times, so I know how long it takes! Was SE already deceased for the journey? Or still alive for the drive to Kent? Probably a stupid question, but has a motive been identified yet? I hope in asking these questions that I haven't broken any rules on here. Thanks everyone.

Hi there , don't think you've broken any rules, but I don't think anyone on here probably knows the answers to your questions.

 

[Lottiedealite]

There are people here to seem to be from Deal or even Sanwich.

I have a question: If you grew up in Deal, would Sandwich be a place you would normally go to such as for shopping or dentists or schools, or would you go to Dover?

I wonder if the alleged perp has connections from the old family garage business with some of the petrol station owners or garages in Sandwich.

(taking off on the post by @imstilla.gramma about seeking familiar and safe-feeling places and people)

Sandwich is quite small. My dentist used to be there but I wouldn't shop there. I do go there for a take away and a walk along the Quay with said takeaway. They do also have some popular great events but it's not as busy as other places locally IMO

 

[Sunshine10]

I hope for Sarah’s family and friends that the police have everything they need (and more!) soon to stop all these searches

 

[asyousay]

The car hire could be as simple as his wife drives one car and was car wasn’t working so he rented one. I think so many assumptions are being made on him renting a car.


He was at work the entire day he wasn’t out trolling for a victim in a rented vehicle.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Hi frosty, welcome.

I believe the answer to all your questions is we do not know.

You may need to change the initials to ‘the accused’ to not fall foul of the law now the alleged perp has been charged.

All of this is moo.

 

[DetectiveSophia]

That suggests (possibly) either he took her there before he allegedly killed her. Or (not nice to think) he took parts there at different times. All JMO, supposition. But if the latter, why a builder's bag? (Except it is an easy way of transporting larger parts possibly.

I hate to say it, but perhaps lots of smaller parts too

 

[Sillybilly]

Thanks. Apologies again.

No need for apologies ... obviously I didn't know either

 

[supersleuth1974]

I believe that you just need a hell of a lot of circumstantial evidence. My ex’s father was arrested and convicted of the manslaughter of my ex’s mother without ever admitting guilt and a body has still never been found. I believe (from memory) he was convicted because he was found to be lying about phone calls made from her to him, when he in fact had the phone...amongst other things

this is MOO

* edited to clarify the jury convicted manslaughter

I think I remember that case , wasn't it some years later that the conviction was finally made.

IMO , the accused is so sure that he won't be caught that once out of London, its that complete belief, that means dumping of evidence can be simple processiing through normal channels, like recycling and a near by builders bag can be used , because if the accused believes he's no where near being caught , then he can be relaxed about evidence because by the time anyone catches up , the evidence is basically run through systems , especially the hire car.

 

[Skigh]

Official release time. But remember we heard it on here via our VI long before that time, I think possibly an hour? earlier.

I think it was around 3pm that Angleterre posted a body had been found and as a VI did not have to give a link as she would have inside information about that knowledge. A little while later a paper reported it,but that quickly was removed as it was clear there was a news blackout until Ms. Dick announced it at 8pm.

 

[Urbanfox1]

Most of these questions we simply don’t know I am afraid.

I don’t think we’ll know what’s alleged by prosecution about what happened until a trial. We can only hypothesize. I would say that from what we’re told about cctv footage and as the charge is abduction and murder IMO it is clearly alleged she was taken some part of the way before being murdered but we don’t know and can’t say with any certainty more than that. For my part, until I know what’s alleged, my mind cannot process the worst case and I choose not to (no criticism of course of those who do as that’s partly the purpose of this forum)

 

[imstilla.grandma]

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[URL='https://www.thesun.ie/news/6704307/sarah-everards-family-call-for-positive-change/#'][/URL]
[URL="https://www.thesun.ie/news/6704307/sarah-everards-family-call-for-positive-change/"]Sarah's family call for 'positive change' as thousands protest vigil violence[/URL]​

 

[SuziQ]

IMO, people are making too much of the fact that Sarah was identified using dental records. Visual identification is rarely used anymore. And when it is, it is done by photos or video. It is simply too barbaric and problematic to do a visual Identification. It is so traumatic that the identifying person could have hysterical blindness and mis identify the deceased. A deceased person most of the time does not look like they did when they were alive. Even a few days exposed to the elements is enough to render a deceased person unrecognizable. The most common way to identify a body is using fingerprints, then dentals, then DNA. Visual identification is not used for homicide cases. Any speculation on the condition of Sarah's body is that, speculation.

 

[Stella123]

To me, the obvious answer to this is that the accused's own car registration had been recorded in the course of the IE incident only three days earlier. I think he would be unsure how likely that was to be followed up on and might have intended to use the hire car for a while to avoid his own car being flagged up in the course of his normal commute.

I have been thinking a lot about the hire car, in particular the alleged footage showing it with hazards on and both doors open, which seems like an odd occurrence to me. As a driver, if you pull over and get out of your car, you close the door beind you pretty much automatically. That goes double on a busy road like the South Circular. Even if you don't care about the safety of your car or other road users, a drivers door wide open like that would draw (one presumes unwanted) attention to what the accused was doing. Added to that, Poynders Road is an uphill gradient as you drive east away from the Common, so even if you exited carelessly, the door would tend to fall closed by itself. What all of that says to me is that the drivers door in particular was opened hurriedly and with force. In addition the passenger door was open even though both people, as I understand it, were outside the car on the CCTV footage.

Based on this, I speculate that Sarah may have got into the car voluntarily, perhaps on the basis of a warrant card and a story of an attacker on the loose, etc, and that the accused then started to get into the car himself. At that point, I wonder if Sarah suddenly realised what she was doing was a bad idea, changed her mind and fled the vehicle leaving her door open, causing him to leave his side, flinging his door open abruptly in pursuit of her. He would then have to subdue her with force and get her into the car quickly before anyone noticed. I don't doubt he could have done so, but I also think this unexpected turn of events and the fear of perhaps having been seen may have started a cascade of unintended consequences that ended in her murder. (RIP)

Despite appearances, I don't think the role of the hire car necessarily demonstrates premeditation.

Of course this is all just speculation, MOO, etc.

I think someone else posted a while back (although speculation) that when the number plates of the hire car were run through the system, they could have matched those from the IE and been automatically linked, which could have helped them determine who the alleged perpetrator might be. That is all supposition as well of course. But I can't see he would use his own car for the IE as it could be traced back to him easily.

So the timeframe of the hire car would be good to know (and we probably won't know until further info is released). I am still trying to work out if he could have, say, hired it for a week, done the alleged IE incidents in it and still had it on 3rd March (3 or 4 days later). But then presumably he'd have been going home in between so maybe not.

 

[arrogantcat]

This Daily Mail article using some interesting wording IMO - BBM

“'Sandwich Town Council is in contact with Kent Police on behalf of the Metropolitan Police in relation to ongoing investigations associated to the murder of Sarah Everard.”

Sarah Everard police seal off new wooded area in Sandwich, Kent | Daily Mail Online

“Associated to” is an unusual turn of phrase here, IMO. Normally it would say “in connection with”. The slight linguistic nuance is interesting to me, as it does sort of imply that this search might not necessarily be directly related to Sarah alone. JMO

 

[arrogantcat]

Gosh, I don’t think I can remember any other case where each day has brought a new unhappy and unexpected twist. If this were a TV drama I think I’d be rolling my eyes at this point and complaining about lack of believability. If only it were fiction, and not awful, heartbreaking fact

On a lighter note, there’s something distinctly British about us all expecting that a man charged with kidnap and murder would still take the time to use recycling bins for their appropriately labelled purpose. My brain was like, “I mean I’m pretty sure he’s a monster, but surely he wouldn’t mix plastics and paper??”

I appreciate you all, fellow honourable and law-abiding sleuthers and recyclers. JMO