Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[FrostedGlass]

In the first bridge video that Julie Melvin did, she and her husband both spot a deer stand at the south end of the bridge on the right hand side in the wooded area. I couldn't make it out; it may have been homemade.

 

[K9Enzo]

It's possible the deer stand(s) remained in place all year. IMO

 

[pearl]

The wooded area along Deer Creek is so narrow with houses and public trails so close by, I find it hard to believe deer hunting is allowed in that area. Does anyone know for sure if it is allowed there?
If there is no hunting allowed, then what other purpose would there be for a tree stand other than simple wildlife observation. Of course BG could have used it for a more nefarious purpose.
If someone put it there for innocent reasons years back, it would be nice if that someone, or LE, would clarify that. It wouldn’t mean the killer didn’t use it, but at least we’d know.

I live in a rural wooded area in another state with a lot of deer hunting. The woods between my house and the next house is not that big an area. The owners allow hunting on their land. Rifle shots are quite common during deer hunting season and sound quite close to my house. I contacted our sheriff's department about it because of my child played in my yard. The sheriff' s department told me that until a bullet passed across my property line, they could not do anything. I'm like, well, at that point it will be too late for the person who could be hit by that bullet. I think that in Indiana also, hunting rights would be determined by the property owner.

 

[stattlich1]

The wooded area along Deer Creek is so narrow with houses and public trails so close by, I find it hard to believe deer hunting is allowed in that area. Does anyone know for sure if it is allowed there?
If there is no hunting allowed, then what other purpose would there be for a tree stand other than simple wildlife observation. Of course BG could have used it for a more nefarious purpose.
If someone put it there for innocent reasons years back, it would be nice if that someone, or LE, would clarify that. It wouldn’t mean the killer didn’t use it, but at least we’d know.

It's for hunting deer. I don't think there's any law in Indiana regarding hunting and proximity to homes.

Hunters are responsible for being aware of their surroundings. Some use shotguns, muzzleloaders, or even handguns, if in certain more populated areas, rather than high powered rifles.

There's also an archery season. In fact, I've wondered from time to time if there may have been a crossbow used by BG, rather than a firearm. No noise.

 

[TL4S]

Do we know if he was walking this in February time so that this is how the foliage would have looked for that time of year? found that real creepy like the Blair Witch project or somethin.

That video is on Mears property, correct? If it's private, the landowner or anyone with permission can put up a ladder stand like that and leave it up indefinitely. I don't know what Indiana law says, but black powder and bow can usually be used closer to houses/trails, etc., and it's possible even rifle is legal where that stand is. I *think* the general rules about firearm discharge are somewhere between 200-400 yards from houses, but I can't seem to find the exact information at the moment, and I don't know if that applies to Indiana.

JMO, but if BG was planning to be stealthy that day, I would have imagined him wearing camo, like any other hunter. Who knows.

 

[TL4S]

It's for hunting deer. I don't think there's any law in Indiana regarding hunting and proximity to homes.

Hunters are responsible for being aware of their surroundings. Some use shotguns, muzzleloaders, or even handguns, if in certain more populated areas, rather than high powered rifles.

There's also an archery season. In fact, I've wondered from time to time if there may have been a crossbow used by BG, rather than a firearm. No noise.

Thanks for the post. I was typing something similar at the same time, but yours is a better explanation.

 

[stattlich1]

Thanks for the post. I was typing something similar at the same time, but yours is a better explanation.

When LE says that BG knew his way around, you know, when they say he obviously knew the woods, or had been there, or had to have had prior knowledge of the area....I've often thought they (LE) may have evidence that he was at certain spots in the woods, or knew certain shortcut trails, tree stands, or a prominent rock, or some other unique feature in the woods, that he may have been at that day, or days prior.

Indeed, it's all speculation.

I know I've spent a lot of times in the woods. East coast of the United States woods. From Maine to South Carolina, and all states in between. There's all sorts of stuff in the woods.

I suspect this area around Deer Creek has been frequented over the years by all sort and manner of folk, for all sort and manner of reasons, legal, illegal, or otherwise.

I shudder to think he had a crossbow under that jacket of his. I doubt that he did. However, to reveal that to two teenage girls saying, guys, this thing will slice through you like butter, now, down the hill. To me, that's more frightening than a gun.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

It's for hunting deer. I don't think there's any law in Indiana regarding hunting and proximity to homes.

Hunters are responsible for being aware of their surroundings. Some use shotguns, muzzleloaders, or even handguns, if in certain more populated areas, rather than high powered rifles.

There's also an archery season. In fact, I've wondered from time to time if there may have been a crossbow used by BG, rather than a firearm. No noise.

Thanks for the info. I live in a very hunting friendly state, but that just seems like a crazy tiny area for hunting.

 

[MistyWaters]

Thanks for the info. I live in a very hunting friendly state, but that just seems like a crazy tiny area for hunting.

My mind can’t go their either. If somebody was sitting up in a tree on a deer stand, maybe deer wouldn’t notice but people sure would considering there were no leaves on the trees yet. As it wasn’t hunting season, for a would-be murderer to place himself in such a visible situation just seems highly unlikely to me, as if asking to attract notice, even getting reported to LE. Idly sitting one of those benches noticing who passed by would seem far less attention-getting. JMO

 

[TL4S]

My mind can’t go their either. If somebody was sitting up in a tree on a deer stand, maybe deer wouldn’t notice but people sure would considering there were no leaves on the trees yet. As it wasn’t hunting season, for a would-be murderer to place himself in such a visible situation just seems highly unlikely to me, as if asking to attract notice, even getting reported to LE. Idly sitting one of those benches noticing who passed by would seem far less attention-getting. JMO

I agree. Sitting in the stand with blue jeans and blue jacket, outside of hunting season, does seem unlikely. He might not have been noticed from anyone on the trail from that distance, but if he was planning and watching for victims, I'd think he would have worn camo or something less conspicuous.

 

[MistyWaters]

That video is on Mears property, correct? If it's private, the landowner or anyone with permission can put up a ladder stand like that and leave it up indefinitely. I don't know what Indiana law says, but black powder and bow can usually be used closer to houses/trails, etc., and it's possible even rifle is legal where that stand is. I *think* the general rules about firearm discharge are somewhere between 200-400 yards from houses, but I can't seem to find the exact information at the moment, and I don't know if that applies to Indiana.

JMO, but if BG was planning to be stealthy that day, I would have imagined him wearing camo, like any other hunter. Who knows.

Yes as we don’t know the cause of death, theories can revolve in various directions. But one thing is for sure - if the killer had ever intended to claim an accidental shooting took place ie saw movement, thought it was an animal, too scared to admit it.....the video and especially the audio “guys..down the hill” put an abrupt end to that.

 

[TL4S]

Has it ever been said which way KG drove the girls to the trails that day? From their house, there are basically two routes. I don't recall ever hearing which way they took or if it's possible they were spotted and followed on the road.

 

[photographer4]

“The person specifically responsible for Abby and Libby’s death. Our team of trained, experienced, and professional investigators will know that “one piece” when they see it.”

That’s close enough, thank you (that’ll teach me for skim reading)!....although what I was remembering I thought expanded on that a bit more but I’m probably wrong.

Regardless that comment says to me LE is still hopeful of “one piece” even if the suspect didn’t tell anybody about his horrid actions on on Feb 13, 2017.

So, how do LE intend to get that one specific tip? Are they just waiting for someone to call in? Or are they asking tipsters specific questions that will reveal the truth if answered in a particular way???

 

[photographer4]

Has it ever been said which way KG drove the girls to the trails that day? From their house, there are basically two routes. I don't recall ever hearing which way they took or if it's possible they were spotted and followed on the road.

Grey Hughes has a YouTube video up that drives the exact route that KG took with the girls that day. He also follows along on map beside the live drive.

 

[Diddian]

Has it ever been said which way KG drove the girls to the trails that day? From their house, there are basically two routes. I don't recall ever hearing which way they took or if it's possible they were spotted and followed on the road.

In addition to the possibility of being spotted or followed on the road, I'd add that it's possible they might have been followed from near LG's home if someone was stalking them (or stalking anyone from LG's family).

I assume LG must have checked cell towers for cellphone activity nearby LG's home before they departed for the MHB trails. And perhaps checked Google maps and WAZE for search of the route to LG's address earlier that day.

I noticed that BP's appraisal business lists the home address as the business address (this seems fairly common practice in small towns), so if there were a troublesome client (or even someone who believed his property value was negatively impacted by a valuation she did for someone else's nearby property), that person would find it fairly easy to figure out where to go if he had some kind of retaliation in mind.

 

[photographer4]

On that topic -

Does anyone recall this deer stand ever being confirmed by someone local? I recall it was a Youtuber who claimed it was a deer stand from looking at the background of a photo or video. I also saw the same photo quite some time ago and instead to me it looked more like a rickety old tree house from a bygone era, doubtful it would’ve supported children let alone an adult.

I’m sorry, I don’t have a link to the actual photo....plus I know nothing about deer stands. But I’m still curious if the existence of this apparent deer stand has ever been confirmed to be factual information by anyone who is or was aware of it’s actual presence?

I’d also be very surprised a tree stand would be located near a public trail system and nature reserve without anybody caring...doesn’t quite make sense to me. If it belonged to a landowner, as the acreage parcels are quite small what would be the point of requiring a deer stand? We’re not talking remote wilderness - as we’ve seen in the videos there are several nearby residences backing onto the trail as well. JMO

The video link below shows a lady and her husband who walked the bridge to the south side where the girls are thought to have been ordered "down the hill". She says: "looks like there was a deer stand"... (5:48 mark).

The only reason I'm sharing this link is because the creator of the content is Juli Melvin, and she created it specifically for Grey Hughes. He actually acknowledges her / this video in other content he has created regarding this case.

 

[photographer4]

On that topic -

Does anyone recall this deer stand ever being confirmed by someone local? I recall it was a Youtuber who claimed it was a deer stand from looking at the background of a photo or video. I also saw the same photo quite some time ago and instead to me it looked more like a rickety old tree house from a bygone era, doubtful it would’ve supported children let alone an adult.

I’m sorry, I don’t have a link to the actual photo....plus I know nothing about deer stands. But I’m still curious if the existence of this apparent deer stand has ever been confirmed to be factual information by anyone who is or was aware of it’s actual presence?

I’d also be very surprised a tree stand would be located near a public trail system and nature reserve without anybody caring...doesn’t quite make sense to me. If it belonged to a landowner, as the acreage parcels are quite small what would be the point of requiring a deer stand? We’re not talking remote wilderness - as we’ve seen in the videos there are several nearby residences backing onto the trail as well. JMO

So if there was a deer stand there, at the end of the bridge right near where the girls shot that last photo of Abby.... is it possible that their killer was lurking in there?

 

[TL4S]

Grey Hughes has a YouTube video up that drives the exact route that KG took with the girls that day. He also follows along on map beside the live drive.

Thanks!

 

[infinit]

One issue I've always had with the cemetery line of thought is why jeans... If he always planned to cross the creek with both of them - Why would he not wear something a bit more sensible? It also leaves him more vulnerable when leaving because someone with their jeans soaked might stand out more sharply to someone who comes across them.

 

[photographer4]

Tree stand is visible and mentioned about the 6 minute mark in this video. It has a view of the bridge, per RG. I'm assuming it is allowed since it was linked on the image thread.

ETA: I noticed the stand looks smaller in the video but it seems to be the same.

What surprised me in this video was the amount of debris / garbage nearest the cemetery! Oye!