kalimouse thank you so much for the update and all your hard work to help find Matthew. I will be praying for a good outcome.
CA CA - Matthew Weaver, 21, Santa Monica Mountains, 10 Aug 2018 #2
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kalimouse thank you so much for the update and all your hard work to help find Matthew. I will be praying for a good outcome.
KALIMOUSE
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In the last few months I have been starting over from the very beginning on this case. I had to take a break from this for multiple reasons but it gave me a lot of time to clear my mind to get a fresh start. When the timeline was a dead-end due to human error, I took it as a sign, that I need to start from the beginning and do my own investigating.The first thing I wanted to focus on is the yells for help.
Since the very beginning, this has been the main thing that puzzled me. I did not put a lot of effort into the science behind it. The 911 callers heard the screams "faintly in the distance" and the first responders heard it a hour or so later. Two locations, one, we can assume as being the concrete pad or in the vicinity, the other is not publically know at this time.
I wanted to know if it is scientifically and geographically possible to hear from different locations. My first time visiting the overlook, we did a few scream tests to see if we can hear each other from a distance but nothing that was conclusively useful.
This time, I researched on how to conduct homemade sound tests. The best way to test in this environment would be to use the drone and a sensitive microphone. I created way-points for the drone to hover, 6 feet above ground level, at a distance of 500 to 2000 feet away. Because of the inversion layer at night , daytime was chosen to get maximum detection range. The drone clocks in at 70db's. More than I equate a dehydrated male with a deep voice can yell. The first set of tests, I set up the microphone at the concrete pad of the overlook. The second tests, I set up the microphone in areas along Stunt rd and Saddle Peak rd that allowed for parking access as potential first responder locations.
The tone from the drone was picked up faintly at less than 1,500 ft. on all tests. This brings a interesting conclusion; Vegetation and trees act as a natural sound absorber. Hills and elevation act as a natural deflector of sound waves. When the drone was out of clear line of sight, no detection, except when at a lower elevations (lower stunt rd.)
I was also curious about reverberations (echo's) which I didn't pick up a discernible amount due to the trees and vegetation absorbing the sound.
I have been informed that the first agency to arrive was CHP. I feel comfortable with this conclusion, the 911 call was transferred to this agency on the recording.
Why CHP? After listening to the vagueness of the 911 call. The dispatcher assumed that it was a report of a accident. The 911 callers didn't know where they were at, just the road. It took them over a hour between the 911 call and them arriving at the location. This leads me to believe that they were systematically stopping to listen for calls for help at different locations on and around stunt rd.. C.H.P. heard the screams, called LAFD, because they thought it was a car over the edge. When LAFD showed up and confirmed the screams, they called for S.W.A.T. to clear the area. It has been mentioned, that they thought they heard the word "gun". I don't know how much truth there is to that story, but they were compelled enough to not conduct a normal search and call S.W.A.T. for backup.
They called for S.W.A.T? This was during the time of the Malibu sniper. How many times do you think they called for S.W.A.T to clear a area if they think a car went off the cliff during this period? If you think about it, S.W.A.T. officers are not just sitting in Malibu waiting to be called at 2 a.m. They are at home and are rushed out to that location. Why would they need to clear the overlook if someone yelling for help was trapped inside of a car over the edge? They knew the direction of the screams were coming from the overlook and couldn't possibly be accident.
Sound can travel less than a 1,500 in this geographical environment based on my tests. Two different locations detected the screams. Yet, one was allegedly close enough to make out the word " GUN?" It is unlikely that someone is going to have the lung capacity to scream at 70dbs for over a hour straight. Dehydration makes it very difficult to yell for a extended point of time. So where ever the first responders located, the searchlights could possibly be seen from the person screaming.
I made diagrams on a map measuring 1,500 ft from the concrete pad of potential locations CHP would have been checking when they first heard screams. What is so very interesting about it is this? If we were to find out where the first responders were exactly location, we can pinpoint the location of the screams. The geography and acoustics of the mountain, drastically limits the possibilities!
Every time emergency services are called out to a on a road by another agency, they use mile markers to give their locations. This allows them to plan out how they need to approach the site. Some emergency vehicles cannot make sharp turns on narrow roads and time is of the essence. The mile marker system is used to ensure that the emergency vehicle is positioned in the most effective direction. They log everything, this mile marker will be in a log book for both CHP and LAFD.
We need to find this info so we can narrow down the search area.
Since the very beginning, this has been the main thing that puzzled me. I did not put a lot of effort into the science behind it. The 911 callers heard the screams "faintly in the distance" and the first responders heard it a hour or so later. Two locations, one, we can assume as being the concrete pad or in the vicinity, the other is not publically know at this time.
I wanted to know if it is scientifically and geographically possible to hear from different locations. My first time visiting the overlook, we did a few scream tests to see if we can hear each other from a distance but nothing that was conclusively useful.
This time, I researched on how to conduct homemade sound tests. The best way to test in this environment would be to use the drone and a sensitive microphone. I created way-points for the drone to hover, 6 feet above ground level, at a distance of 500 to 2000 feet away. Because of the inversion layer at night , daytime was chosen to get maximum detection range. The drone clocks in at 70db's. More than I equate a dehydrated male with a deep voice can yell. The first set of tests, I set up the microphone at the concrete pad of the overlook. The second tests, I set up the microphone in areas along Stunt rd and Saddle Peak rd that allowed for parking access as potential first responder locations.
The tone from the drone was picked up faintly at less than 1,500 ft. on all tests. This brings a interesting conclusion; Vegetation and trees act as a natural sound absorber. Hills and elevation act as a natural deflector of sound waves. When the drone was out of clear line of sight, no detection, except when at a lower elevations (lower stunt rd.)
I was also curious about reverberations (echo's) which I didn't pick up a discernible amount due to the trees and vegetation absorbing the sound.
I have been informed that the first agency to arrive was CHP. I feel comfortable with this conclusion, the 911 call was transferred to this agency on the recording.
Why CHP? After listening to the vagueness of the 911 call. The dispatcher assumed that it was a report of a accident. The 911 callers didn't know where they were at, just the road. It took them over a hour between the 911 call and them arriving at the location. This leads me to believe that they were systematically stopping to listen for calls for help at different locations on and around stunt rd.. C.H.P. heard the screams, called LAFD, because they thought it was a car over the edge. When LAFD showed up and confirmed the screams, they called for S.W.A.T. to clear the area. It has been mentioned, that they thought they heard the word "gun". I don't know how much truth there is to that story, but they were compelled enough to not conduct a normal search and call S.W.A.T. for backup.
They called for S.W.A.T? This was during the time of the Malibu sniper. How many times do you think they called for S.W.A.T to clear a area if they think a car went off the cliff during this period? If you think about it, S.W.A.T. officers are not just sitting in Malibu waiting to be called at 2 a.m. They are at home and are rushed out to that location. Why would they need to clear the overlook if someone yelling for help was trapped inside of a car over the edge? They knew the direction of the screams were coming from the overlook and couldn't possibly be accident.
Sound can travel less than a 1,500 in this geographical environment based on my tests. Two different locations detected the screams. Yet, one was allegedly close enough to make out the word " GUN?" It is unlikely that someone is going to have the lung capacity to scream at 70dbs for over a hour straight. Dehydration makes it very difficult to yell for a extended point of time. So where ever the first responders located, the searchlights could possibly be seen from the person screaming.
I made diagrams on a map measuring 1,500 ft from the concrete pad of potential locations CHP would have been checking when they first heard screams. What is so very interesting about it is this? If we were to find out where the first responders were exactly location, we can pinpoint the location of the screams. The geography and acoustics of the mountain, drastically limits the possibilities!
Every time emergency services are called out to a on a road by another agency, they use mile markers to give their locations. This allows them to plan out how they need to approach the site. Some emergency vehicles cannot make sharp turns on narrow roads and time is of the essence. The mile marker system is used to ensure that the emergency vehicle is positioned in the most effective direction. They log everything, this mile marker will be in a log book for both CHP and LAFD.
We need to find this info so we can narrow down the search area.
I have to say this about sound tests - the way sound travels can vary greatly depending on many factors. I think you would need to repeat the experiment several times under different conditions.
At times we could hear normal conversations from the house across the valley from us. Other times you could yell and not be heard.
At times we could hear normal conversations from the house across the valley from us. Other times you could yell and not be heard.
KALIMOUSE
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Outstanding observation Valiant: The reason you can sometimes hear sounds from across your valley is due to the refraction's of sound due to the inversion layer. This is why sound travels farther during the day than at night.
I used equations to come up with the correct distance to ultimately use.
The speed of sound at 0 degrees Celsius is 331 m/s. For each 1 degree Celsius added the speed of sound increases. Here is the formula for calculating the increase in speed:
C = (331 + 0.6T)m/s
C = the new speed of sound
T = the air temperature in degrees Celsius
To calculate the speed of sound in air at 30 degrees:
C = (331 + 0.6 × 30) = 349 m/s
At 30 degrees Celsius, the speed of sound is 349 m/s.
Breakdown of temperature for that morning in Malibu.
Wind does effect how far sound travels, however, wind on the day of the yells, the wind was minimal.
For the temperature on the ground to determine the refraction effect. I had to acquired the GPS location and elevation of the weather station that reported on the graph above.
You will lose an average 3.5 degrees Fahrenheit for every 1000 feet of elevation you gain. You can also use about 1.2 degrees Celsius per ever 1000 feet, or about 2 degrees Celsius per 100 meters . Some people use 9.8 degrees Celsius per 1000 meters.
If you start out at 1000 feet, and climb to 6000 feet, that’s a 5000 foot difference (6000 – 1000 = 5000). So, since you’re gaining 5,000 feet in elevation, you’ll use a 5 in your calculation. 5,000 feet, times 3.5 degrees. Just drop the (thousand). So, ( 5 x 3.5 = 17.5 degrees). So roughly, you’ll expect to lose at least 17.5 degrees. I always round up , so here I will assume a 20 degree difference.
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KALIMOUSE
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The second thing I focused on is the evidence.
The night Matthew went missing, he posted a picture with the caption "GAME OVER" with a picture of his dads gun. It has been reported that he asked his dad for a gun.
The exact nature of the conversation that led to his request has not been made public.
He met with a girl, her statement has been, they were doing drugs, he was very distraught and depressed.
He suffered a untreated head wound a few days prior to going missing. I am assuming that it was more than just a simple bump since it was significant enough to mention.
His car was driven through the hiking trail of the overlook, without regard for the preservation of the vehicle.
He made calls and texts 4-5 hours after his car was seen on the trail to the overlook.
His key was found 40+ yards down the trail after his car got stuck.
His hat was found next to tree stump on the opposite side of the concrete pad of the overlook.
Screams were heard 17-18 hours after his car was seen traveling on the overlook trail.
Law enforcement has treated this as a suicide and when you put all this together, this initial obvious conclusion. "GAME OVER" and asking for a gun. Two red flags. Depressing conversation. Three red flags. Disregard for cherished personal belongings. Four red flags. Not calling for help when he had every opportunity between 7:00am to 12:00pm (the last time his phone reported used). Five red flags.
I have been present during interviews with his closest family members and friends. Every single person has stated that suicide was not in his character.
Although, his actions,the untreated head injury and drug use, has changed my opinion. I did a lot of studying on suicide due to head injuries. In the last few years they have been able to establish a link between concussions and suicidal thoughts. What hasn't been tested, obvious reasons, narcotics effects on brain injury's/concussions and suicidal thoughts. Narcotics impair your decision making skills and coupled with a brain injury, is a huge red flag. Making it is safe to conclude that he may have went there to commit suicide.
I dedicated some time to see how his hat and key was found.
The key was on the path, I called a dog handler friend to ask how is it possible that a dog didn't detect this. Unless you completely wipe a key with chemicals, it will still have a scent that a dog would detect.
The hat was found less than 20 yards N.W. of the concrete pad. How did the dog not detect on that either? Perhaps handler error, he was looking for a person not items. Idk.
I needed to replicate how someone spotted the hat in the drone photos. I already knew the area, so it wasn't long before I found it. I am sure everyone reading this has seen the photos posted by the family members who found the hat.
It is not a accurate example of how the hat originally was found.
The hat was pressed against the log.
The difference of how the hat was found is very important. The examination of the drone hat photos against the geographical location will help determine likelihood if it came from the car side of the concrete pad. The issue is roto wash. The morning that they were searching for Matthew, they flew a non-flir helicopter over the area with a spot light. Using a search grid flight plan, its possible that rotowash could have forced the hat to its location. I needed to look at the physics of how a hat would fly. The bill is the heaviest part of a hat and the inside cap would be like a sail catching air.
I got my industrial blower fan and blew a hat in the backyard 100xs to see if I could replicate the angle the hat was found if it came from the car side of the overlook. Only 3 times was I able to replicate it. The wind catches the hat and tumbled it with the bill leading the rotation. If you look at the picture of it next to the log. The log is higher than 2 feet based on measuring the hat as a reference. For it to land the way it did, it is more likely that it came from the north end of the concrete pad. This isn't a fact, it just based on odds. There are many factors that were not used in these tests. The only way to accurately replica the location of the hat is to do these test on-site. At this point I feel it is not necessary
The night Matthew went missing, he posted a picture with the caption "GAME OVER" with a picture of his dads gun. It has been reported that he asked his dad for a gun.
The exact nature of the conversation that led to his request has not been made public.
He met with a girl, her statement has been, they were doing drugs, he was very distraught and depressed.
He suffered a untreated head wound a few days prior to going missing. I am assuming that it was more than just a simple bump since it was significant enough to mention.
His car was driven through the hiking trail of the overlook, without regard for the preservation of the vehicle.
He made calls and texts 4-5 hours after his car was seen on the trail to the overlook.
His key was found 40+ yards down the trail after his car got stuck.
His hat was found next to tree stump on the opposite side of the concrete pad of the overlook.
Screams were heard 17-18 hours after his car was seen traveling on the overlook trail.
Law enforcement has treated this as a suicide and when you put all this together, this initial obvious conclusion. "GAME OVER" and asking for a gun. Two red flags. Depressing conversation. Three red flags. Disregard for cherished personal belongings. Four red flags. Not calling for help when he had every opportunity between 7:00am to 12:00pm (the last time his phone reported used). Five red flags.
I have been present during interviews with his closest family members and friends. Every single person has stated that suicide was not in his character.
Although, his actions,the untreated head injury and drug use, has changed my opinion. I did a lot of studying on suicide due to head injuries. In the last few years they have been able to establish a link between concussions and suicidal thoughts. What hasn't been tested, obvious reasons, narcotics effects on brain injury's/concussions and suicidal thoughts. Narcotics impair your decision making skills and coupled with a brain injury, is a huge red flag. Making it is safe to conclude that he may have went there to commit suicide.
I dedicated some time to see how his hat and key was found.
The key was on the path, I called a dog handler friend to ask how is it possible that a dog didn't detect this. Unless you completely wipe a key with chemicals, it will still have a scent that a dog would detect.
The hat was found less than 20 yards N.W. of the concrete pad. How did the dog not detect on that either? Perhaps handler error, he was looking for a person not items. Idk.
I needed to replicate how someone spotted the hat in the drone photos. I already knew the area, so it wasn't long before I found it. I am sure everyone reading this has seen the photos posted by the family members who found the hat.
It is not a accurate example of how the hat originally was found.
The hat was pressed against the log.
The difference of how the hat was found is very important. The examination of the drone hat photos against the geographical location will help determine likelihood if it came from the car side of the concrete pad. The issue is roto wash. The morning that they were searching for Matthew, they flew a non-flir helicopter over the area with a spot light. Using a search grid flight plan, its possible that rotowash could have forced the hat to its location. I needed to look at the physics of how a hat would fly. The bill is the heaviest part of a hat and the inside cap would be like a sail catching air.
I got my industrial blower fan and blew a hat in the backyard 100xs to see if I could replicate the angle the hat was found if it came from the car side of the overlook. Only 3 times was I able to replicate it. The wind catches the hat and tumbled it with the bill leading the rotation. If you look at the picture of it next to the log. The log is higher than 2 feet based on measuring the hat as a reference. For it to land the way it did, it is more likely that it came from the north end of the concrete pad. This isn't a fact, it just based on odds. There are many factors that were not used in these tests. The only way to accurately replica the location of the hat is to do these test on-site. At this point I feel it is not necessary
KALIMOUSE
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How does focusing on suicide, random tests and revisiting the evidence help us locate him?
He didn't have a gun and couldn't drive his car, so we have to look for a potentially incapacitating situation.
There are a handful of potentially incapacitating situations the area. It must also meet the criteria of a location in between the concrete pad, the 3 potential locations of the first responders and easily accessible by someone with no equipment or cutting tools.
It took me about 5 minutes searching google earth to find the first location. I label it RK#1.
Its high enough to where if you fell from it, you be enveloped by the canopy below, its off the trail, and its in the middle of the the overlook and FIRST RESPONDERS #3 THE BOTTOM OF STUNT RD.
Next, I checked the search map the family provided. NOT SEARCHED! Then I looked at the drone photos for that area at 400x magnification and used some pixel enhancement methods. I found a few hits of red ( color of his shoes) in the area below where someone would have fell from the top. It even looked like the branches could have been broken from a fall.
At this point, I was starting to feel this has huge potential. I drove up to the overlook and flew my drone 20 feet above the canopy and spotted something red that wasn't natural. The next day, I went up there with my bushwhacking equipment and cleared out the area looking for the red object. It turned out to be a rusted generator.
I only searched the south end of the rock.
When I got back to my house I started to reflect and reevaluate the site. If the screams were heard from the overlook and the bottom of stunt rd from this location. It would only be possible to hear it if it was coming from distinct angles from the north side of RK#1. The rock is angled in such a way that only certain locations, would give clear line of sight to the overlook, acting like a megaphone.
He didn't have a gun and couldn't drive his car, so we have to look for a potentially incapacitating situation.
There are a handful of potentially incapacitating situations the area. It must also meet the criteria of a location in between the concrete pad, the 3 potential locations of the first responders and easily accessible by someone with no equipment or cutting tools.
It took me about 5 minutes searching google earth to find the first location. I label it RK#1.
Its high enough to where if you fell from it, you be enveloped by the canopy below, its off the trail, and its in the middle of the the overlook and FIRST RESPONDERS #3 THE BOTTOM OF STUNT RD.
Next, I checked the search map the family provided. NOT SEARCHED! Then I looked at the drone photos for that area at 400x magnification and used some pixel enhancement methods. I found a few hits of red ( color of his shoes) in the area below where someone would have fell from the top. It even looked like the branches could have been broken from a fall.
At this point, I was starting to feel this has huge potential. I drove up to the overlook and flew my drone 20 feet above the canopy and spotted something red that wasn't natural. The next day, I went up there with my bushwhacking equipment and cleared out the area looking for the red object. It turned out to be a rusted generator.
I only searched the south end of the rock.
When I got back to my house I started to reflect and reevaluate the site. If the screams were heard from the overlook and the bottom of stunt rd from this location. It would only be possible to hear it if it was coming from distinct angles from the north side of RK#1. The rock is angled in such a way that only certain locations, would give clear line of sight to the overlook, acting like a megaphone.
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jash
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KALIMOUSE, the time and effort you've put in trying to locate Matthew is incredible. Thank you for sharing with the rest of us.
I was not aware of the gun information. You stated he did not have a gun... does that mean his father denied his request?
I was not aware of the gun information. You stated he did not have a gun... does that mean his father denied his request?
KALIMOUSE
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Yes, his father did deny his request. I am also a gun owner and did take note, his father cleared the gun before allowing his son to handle it. That shows his father had exercised proper gun etiquette, emptying a gun before handing it to someone. Just an observation.
KALIMOUSE
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My goal for the next few weeks, establish a map of potential yelling sites that meets all the criteria from the potential first responders sites.
When I first joined this case, I had a idea of how to use a drone to search underneath the trees canopy. I hung a 360 camera by a string underneath the drone. The reason I abandoned this idea was due to something called the pendulum effect. The weight of the camera would cause it to sway uncontrollably as gravity attempted to center it. It was not a effective design, I spent more time trying to stop swaying and spinning than actually flying. With string , it had a huge potential of getting caught or tangled in everything.
Since then, I have ditched the string and went with a long carbon fiber selfie stick.
Limited swaying and no tangles. I have become extremely proficient in automated flights and can drop the camera precisely where ever I need it to be. I have only tested it locally to ensure that all the bugs are out before testing it live. This will speed up the searching process, I can fly it from my car and eliminates the need to bushwhack or repel to get to a area.
I am currently on the waiting list for a skydio 2, which I will let these video explain what it can do.
When I first joined this case, I had a idea of how to use a drone to search underneath the trees canopy. I hung a 360 camera by a string underneath the drone. The reason I abandoned this idea was due to something called the pendulum effect. The weight of the camera would cause it to sway uncontrollably as gravity attempted to center it. It was not a effective design, I spent more time trying to stop swaying and spinning than actually flying. With string , it had a huge potential of getting caught or tangled in everything.
Since then, I have ditched the string and went with a long carbon fiber selfie stick.
Limited swaying and no tangles. I have become extremely proficient in automated flights and can drop the camera precisely where ever I need it to be. I have only tested it locally to ensure that all the bugs are out before testing it live. This will speed up the searching process, I can fly it from my car and eliminates the need to bushwhack or repel to get to a area.
I am currently on the waiting list for a skydio 2, which I will let these video explain what it can do.
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deadfoot13
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KALIMOUSE
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From my research I have not found many groups that use these techniques. There are so many missing people everyday and budgets are limited, it is hard for them to waist time testing new techniques. I am having to develop them as I go to overcome obstacles in my spare time with the budget that I have.
Most people that own skydio 2 drone are using it to film themselves mountain biking or driving.
There is a lot of tech out there that could really make difference is SAR's but the conventional way of thinking on the mission I have been on has been. Boots on the ground, Helo's in the air.
One piece of equipment that is lidar, its expensive , but what it can do is amazing.
The people that own lidar are only using it for surveying and mapping.
I have been wanting to create a Websleuths SAR's team that could be, donation based, to help solve cases with the latest tech. Similar to ADVENTURES WITH PURPOSE. There are so many talented people on this forum that have so many good ideas and tips but are all over the world . It would give them a real opportunity to help from where they are, assisting to go through footage and evidence, then sending a team to follow up on their leads.
Most people that own skydio 2 drone are using it to film themselves mountain biking or driving.
There is a lot of tech out there that could really make difference is SAR's but the conventional way of thinking on the mission I have been on has been. Boots on the ground, Helo's in the air.
One piece of equipment that is lidar, its expensive , but what it can do is amazing.
The people that own lidar are only using it for surveying and mapping.
I have been wanting to create a Websleuths SAR's team that could be, donation based, to help solve cases with the latest tech. Similar to ADVENTURES WITH PURPOSE. There are so many talented people on this forum that have so many good ideas and tips but are all over the world . It would give them a real opportunity to help from where they are, assisting to go through footage and evidence, then sending a team to follow up on their leads.
deadfoot13
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RSBM
I think you've done an amazing job, and even more so because you've been able to explain it to us in terms we understand. These techniques could save so much time and misdirected effort when a person first goes missing, I would think that in the end it would save money and conserve resources. I'm very appreciative of the knowledge you have shared with us, and I believe this type of exercise is really what's going to help find this young man.
annemc2
her name is Suzanne Marie Sevakis
Daaaang, @KALIMOUSE, your efforts are amazing! Thank you so much for doing all of this work and for sharing detailed explanations with us. I'm a dunce when it comes to physics so this stuff absolutely blows my mind.
I was trying to remember why I knew something about lidar. I remembered reading about it being used to discover some ancient Mayan ruins. So fascinating. Airborne Lidar for Archaeology in Central and South America - LIDAR Magazine
I was trying to remember why I knew something about lidar. I remembered reading about it being used to discover some ancient Mayan ruins. So fascinating. Airborne Lidar for Archaeology in Central and South America - LIDAR Magazine
KALIMOUSE
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Thank you everyone for taking the time in reading what I have shared.
Lidar is so fascinating, I agree! Its has been successfully tested in finding unmarked graves of murder victims. https://phys.org/news/2018-08-lidar-unmarked-graves-victims.html
Why is this not widely used? Up until a few years ago the cost of these systems were over 100K. DJI released last year a lidar that is $500. You will still need a drone that is capable of flying with this type of payload. The cheapest solution that has been tested is the DJI inspire 2
The people purchasing lidar are only using it for business, not SAR's. They charge a minimum of $2,000 a hour to use it, looking for missing people to bring resolution to family's is not financial beneficial to them.
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carbuff
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Amazing work, Kalimouse.
A question that occurred to me while I was reading: is it possible Matt bought a gun somewhere after he left his father?
A question that occurred to me while I was reading: is it possible Matt bought a gun somewhere after he left his father?
KALIMOUSE
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Yes, anything is possible. It is also possible that when they heard the word gun , it could have been in this context " HELP! I HAVE A GUN!" The issue is, they did hear someone screaming for help, and to my knowledge it hasn't been reported that they heard a gunshot. Something spooked them to call for SWAT
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Eleven_11
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It has been on my heart for quite awhile that I want to do SAR one day. I don’t have the fitness level for it just yet though.
The last time I was out at the beach up there my heart just ached because all I could think of was him.
Needless to say, I hope one day I can be boots on the ground. I fully support your idea!
carbuff
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Oh I see. Thanks for clarifying that.
I think you were right that the worry over the shooter who was loose in the area at the time might have contributed to the urgency.
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robdawg925
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