Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #14

[MsMiniSleuth]

Aside from the fact that no one heard anything on Poynders that evening, is there any other reason to dismiss the possibility that SE was hit by a car? I'm going back over what we know and I'm not sure if I'm missing something. IMO if the suspect has experience as a car mechanic, I could imagine this being something the suspect could conceal fairly well once at home, and if he was tired from his early shift he might have been driving badly. It would explain how so much of the aftermath seems to have been very rushed and panicked.

Obviously speculative - this is really a question as to intent, obviously, and we can't know that, and it doesn't undermine culpability either (IMO). No one hearing an accident is a big factor, but Clapham at night tends to have some loud noises as standard (even during lockdown in my area).

I'm just wondering if there's anything I'm missing regarding the scene or the information we have, really, because I'm sure I must have.

Did you look at the forensics video from there? They seemed to be taking interest in the entrance/exit to the flats and the dropped kerb area. Something seems to have occurred at that spot, but just what...?

 

[BB72]

Another newbie - good afternoon. Unfortunately it is the shocking and terribly upsetting case of Sarah that has brought me here. I feel such incredible sadness (and anger!) that this happened. Two weeks' ago tonight .. I have not been able to think of much else or concentrate on work since hearing of her disappearance and murder. My heart goes out to her family and friends - I hope they're getting much love and support.

In my opinion I think he used his Police status to get her in the car because of lockdown. Looking at Google maps I don't think he forced her in as it's very open and lots of flats overlooking - too much of a risk?
Does anyone know if anymore CCTV has been recovered of the vehicle going all the way to Kent? Surely there must be some?
I hope answers will come in the near future of what happened to poor Sarah that night <modsnip>

 

[tedtink]

Aside from the fact that no one heard anything on Poynders that evening, is

There could indeed be witnesses or someone may well have heard something. We're just not privy to all the evidence at the moment.

JMO

 

[Sleepysleuther]

I know they have the white Astra, and two 'figures' on pavement, but a) have they positively ruled that the supect was alone in car prior to encountering SE and b) that one of the figures was positively her?

I also wonder this, two figures isn’t definitive on identity. Perhaps there were two kidnappers

It seems may be implausible? but I am trying to see a way through to 'two figures' - which may just be police keeping certain facts hidden for the present - and not stating one appeared a woman, let alone SE, and the two front doors of the car open.

Two suspects could help to explain one of the questions we all seem to have around how SE came to be in the car. But it seems unlikely and relatively unheard of for an accomplice to be part of such an offence. Unless there is more to it, people trafficking gone wrong for example. JMO. The reference to two figures could also just be that the cctv isn’t definitive. But the lawyer in me picked up on that language and I thought it was interesting that the CPS had not said, two figures who appear to be the suspect and SE, for example. But perhaps I’m reading too much into it.

 

[Lubilu]

Another newbie - good afternoon. Unfortunately it is the shocking and terribly upsetting case of Sarah that has brought me here. I feel such incredible sadness (and anger!) that this happened. Two weeks' ago tonight .. I have not been able to think of much else or concentrate on work since hearing of her disappearance and murder. My heart goes out to her family and friends - I hope they're getting much love and support.

In my opinion I think he used his Police status to get her in the car because of lockdown. Looking at Google maps I don't think he forced her in as it's very open and lots of flats overlooking - too much of a risk?
Does anyone know if anymore CCTV has been recovered of the vehicle going all the way to Kent? Surely there must be some?
I hope answers will come in the near future of what happened to poor Sarah that night<modsnip>

There is no public information about CCTV further to the instances mentioned in press and here. If LE should have any, it would not be made public at least until/following trial as I humbly understand it.

 

[JuicyLucy]

My initial thought was saying he’ll get paid his full salary as if it was a scoop rather than just a statement of basic employment law (subject to what I’ve previously said) was lazy journalism.

Also about whipping up moral outrage, no doubt.

ETA: snipped for focus

 

[Newthoughts]

I refer to the flat he rented.

I would be very surprised if the accused could afford to pay a mortgage on a home AND pay London rents, which are horrendous, on a policeman's wage. Just my opinion tho

The commute is quite a normal one for that area.

IMO the hire car is an expensive oddity for that fairly ordinary commute and one I don't understand at all given you have to give details to hire one. It wouldn't protect him from discovery.

I believe people have reported that there was a motorbike at the accused's home which, for me, would seem the obvious method of getting into London for work cheaply, quickly and efficiently.

So IMOO I think renting a flat in London would be prohibitively expensive alongside a mortgage. I don't understand the hire car.

 

[Tortoise]

Aside from the fact that no one heard anything on Poynders that evening, is there any other reason to dismiss the possibility that SE was hit by a car? I'm going back over what we know and I'm not sure if I'm missing something. IMO if the suspect has experience as a car mechanic, I could imagine this being something the suspect could conceal fairly well once at home, and if he was tired from his early shift he might have been driving badly. It would explain how so much of the aftermath seems to have been very rushed and panicked.

Obviously speculative - this is really a question as to intent, obviously, and we can't know that, and it doesn't undermine culpability either (IMO). No one hearing an accident is a big factor, but Clapham at night tends to have some loud noises as standard (even during lockdown in my area).

I'm just wondering if there's anything I'm missing regarding the scene or the information we have, really, because I'm sure I must have.

I'm assuming they can see Sarah is not injured at 9:35pm, when two figures are seen on Poynders Road, and the car is seen with its hazard lights flashing.

He would have had an opportunity to say it was an accident, and they would have had an opportunity to check that out, before he was charged with kidnap and murder.

MOO

 

[Whitehall 1212]

In my experience, both as a police officer and as a criminal investigator employed by other public bodies, it is often the case that employees are suspended on full pay when there is a criminal investigation and/or a criminal court case pending. If the matter is not a serious one and does not impact on their role, the investigation and/or the employers reputation then they may remain at work for the duration.

It is often the case that the evidence for civil litigation or internal disciplinary matters is as the result of the criminal investigation and the facts have to remain confidential to avoid anything that may undermine the criminal proceedings. Therefore the criminal process is generally allowed to run its course before civil or internal proceedings take place.

 

[Stella123]

Aside from the fact that no one heard anything on Poynders that evening, is there any other reason to dismiss the possibility that SE was hit by a car? I'm going back over what we know and I'm not sure if I'm missing something. IMO if the suspect has experience as a car mechanic, I could imagine this being something the suspect could conceal fairly well once at home, and if he was tired from his early shift he might have been driving badly. It would explain how so much of the aftermath seems to have been very rushed and panicked.

Obviously speculative - this is really a question as to intent, obviously, and we can't know that, and it doesn't undermine culpability either (IMO). No one hearing an accident is a big factor, but Clapham at night tends to have some loud noises as standard (even during lockdown in my area).

I'm just wondering if there's anything I'm missing regarding the scene or the information we have, really, because I'm sure I must have.

We don't know that no-one at Poynders heard anything - I believe someone earlier said that it is possible they may not be able to speak about it - injunction or something eg - to keep evidence for court. Speculation, JMO. But personally, based on the info released so far I don't think it could be an RTA. Others would have been involved IMO - noise, traffic hold up etc MOO

 

[Seattle1]

Secondly the car is in the turn off lane to go back into south London (Tooting/Balham way). If the car was going back to Kent it would be in the other lanes going straight on.

Having said that, I do agree the placement of the passenger does look odd and the video of it is even weirder seeing how completely still the occupants are.

^^rsbm

I believe the consensus is the vehicle in the turn lane on CCTV is NOT a Vauxhall Astra but a random white car stopped on the road.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

We don't know that no-one at Poynders heard anything - I believe someone earlier said that it is possible they may not be able to speak about it - injunction or something eg - to keep evidence for court. Speculation, JMO. But personally, based on the info released so far I don't think it could be an RTA. Others would have been involved IMO - noise, traffic hold up etc MOO

Doesn't have to have been a big accident, for example if, hypothetically, he was coming out of Poynders Court, he could have clipped her on side, just enough to knock her off balance and not a full scale collision as would not have been going at speed.

The other thing I wonder, is HOW the white Astra was parked, which I don't think has been stated. Given that is a yellow line outside, I don't suppose he would have been parked there long (though feigning a breakdown with hazard lights on might be an excuse). But were all four wheels on road,car neatly parked? Or did he drive up off road on the dropped kerb, with two wheels on pavement? Straight or at angle if he pulled off road suddenly to cut her path off as she was heading towards car?

 

[Pokerface87]

Did you look at the forensics video from there? They seemed to be taking interest in the entrance/exit to the flats and the dropped kerb area. Something seems to have occurred at that spot, but just what...?

Could be nothing... could be something. At about 1.38 if you zoom in by the evidence marker the gate/ fence looks damaged. I’m really starting to wonder if he could have run her over. Has the car been recovered?

 

[MsBetsy]

Perhaps I'm wrong and one of the legal experts on here can confirm but it's not only DNA evidence that can prove a rape or sexual assault. If there was internet search history, witness testimony of the person's mindset a 'rape kit', found amongst someone's possessions etc. these could still be evidence of a sexual crime. IMO

I think they need physical evidence that links the perp to the victim. Imo

 

[tallmansix]

Could be nothing... could be something. At about 1.38 if you zoom in by the evidence marker the gate/ fence looks damaged. I’m really starting to wonder if he could have run her over. Has the car been recovered?

Fence was damaged long before this incident as per previous posts / Google street view.

 

[Tortoise]

Could be nothing... could be something. At about 1.38 if you zoom in by the evidence marker the gate/ fence looks damaged. I’m really starting to wonder if he could have run her over. Has the car been recovered?

That fence damage was there before that night. Discussed previously, backed up by links to google street view.

eta - apols for repetition, I see tallmansix already said same.

 

[Pokerface87]

Fence was damaged long before this incident as per previous posts / Google street view.

Thanks for clarifying. I must have missed that

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Could be nothing... could be something. At about 1.38 if you zoom in by the evidence marker the gate/ fence looks damaged. I’m really starting to wonder if he could have run her over. Has the car been recovered?

I thought that about fence, but it was pointed out by another poster that it appears same - the fence - on Google Maps, which is probably unlikely to have been updated since this incident on March 3.

 

[Urbanfox1]

In my experience, both as a police officer and as a criminal investigator employed by other public bodies, it is often the case that employees are suspended on full pay when there is a criminal investigation and/or a criminal court case pending. If the matter is not a serious one and does not impact on their role, the investigation and/or the employers reputation then they may remain at work for the duration.

It is often the case that the evidence for civil litigation or internal disciplinary matters is as the result of the criminal investigation and the facts have to remain confidential to avoid anything that may undermine the criminal proceedings. Therefore the criminal process is generally allowed to run its course before civil or internal proceedings take place.

I will defer to your experience. But will also say that’s Often the case but it doesn’t have to be, which is my point.
a couple of other points in response though:

1. a solicitor would be sacked if similar evidence was made available to HR, before any criminal conviction IMO.
2. Most employers are not in a position to see or know about evidence in a criminal trial which would support an internal investigation
3. Agree in most cases easier and legally safer for the employer to see what happens in criminal court snd rely on that

 

[Armchair_Defective]

I would be very surprised if the accused could afford to pay a mortgage on a home AND pay London rents, which are horrendous, on a policeman's wage. Just my opinion tho

The commute is quite a normal one for that area.

IMO the hire car is an expensive oddity for that fairly ordinary commute and one I don't understand at all given you have to give details to hire one. It wouldn't protect him from discovery.

I believe people have reported that there was a motorbike at the accused's home which, for me, would seem the obvious method of getting into London for work cheaply, quickly and efficiently.

So IMOO I think renting a flat in London would be prohibitively expensive alongside a mortgage. I don't understand the hire car.

The hire car does seem odd but could his wife need one car and then the other that belonged to him was broken? I don't know how old they are but as a mechanic, someone could be meaning to fix a car when they had time and hire one for getting to work.

From the look of the motorbike it looks like an expensive toy and not a commuter bike at all. I imaging riding a motorbike in London rush hour would be a high-risk, high stress activity. I was out today riding in my city, not at rush hour and it was erm...interesting to say the least.