Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[Blanche]

You know, if he lived in my area, then, yes. (He probably never finished it, but left no reviews on Amazon or Goodreads, because he doesn't like to stand out).

But in Indiana, you bet he saw the movie already, and probably, read the book. The movie was released in 2017, they all watched it.

I personally can't imagine him being religious. Zero morals, zero compassion, sadistic nature, what does one see to think he is religious? MOO. He is cynical and quasi-religious, if that. But I think "mimicry" is what we all do to survive, so you bet he saw the movie and read the book with the rest of Indiana's inhabitants.

I wonder if at the crime scene the killer left anything that alluded to this film or any religious sign /symbol? was it a hint maybe to the killer that we are on to you? JMO

 

[K9Enzo]

Also of note, I don't recall any cases that have been solved as a result of reward money being put up. Do you?

IMO, not in the US in recent years that I recall. Reward money is probably beneficial in a case where a LE named fugitive is on the run. IMO

 

[Charlot123]

I wonder if at the crime scene the killer left anything that alluded to this film or any religious sign /symbol? was it a hint maybe to the killer that we are on to you? JMO

He probably did, but it doesn't imply he is religious, to me. Maybe if they put together everything that he left, it would make a phrase, a clue. But in itself, a cross or a Bible say nothing. This is why I think it would be important to release some information.

Do you remember the game when people have to "draw" a phrase, or a line of poetry, themselves? Like "happy Sunday", one person would be smiling, jumping, "happy", another one, showing the "sun" (a circle, or take off a jacket) and the third one, "the day"?

I don't know if he did the same, but maybe different "clues" are leading to different people, because no one ever tried to read them as one phrase?

Hence, for example, they see "a cross" and think he is religious, and IRL, it is the same as "crossing" the Creek?

MOO - they probably need to try to "read" the whole sequence. And if there was the Bible, maybe it is one word on that page that matters?

 

[Diddian]

I have read that at the funeral of the girls that Libby's neck was covered, could it be that she was strangled? I keep thinking of the crime scene description by the land owner that it was "pristine" no evidence of blood etc so I do not believe the "rumours" the so called leaked text messages talking about stabbing etc JMO

I don't think any conclusions about the crime can be drawn from the landowner's description of the crime scene as "pristine" when he visited the area after LE was finished processing it.

IIRC, LE spent four days processing that scene and one LE officer said they examined every leaf in the area. I would assume that if they did that and there was anything that looked like evidence on any leaf (or anything else) they examined there, it was taken into evidence. That is likely why the scene looked "pristine" to anyone visiting it after it was processed.

 

[Yemelyan]

I wonder if at the crime scene the killer left anything that alluded to this film or any religious sign /symbol? was it a hint maybe to the killer that we are on to you? JMO

I'm on mobile so I apologize for any misspellings or formatting, but I think it's important to bring the transcript of DC's comments on this here because if you hear/read his words I don't see how you can still question that The Shack is code for any evidentiary element to the crime.

From Scene of the Crime, A New Direction, starting at 50:10.

Narrator: After the press conference, online sleuths went into overdrive, questioning whether Carter's references to The Shack could be a coded message to the killer, or perhaps a confirmation that Abby and Libby's deaths has involved a shack....On our behalf, KG asked Superintendent Carter about his reference to The Shack.

KG: Another thing..."The Shack" was used in it (note: "it" is the April 2019 press conference). Was that on purpose?
DC: It was. Have you seen "The Shack?"
KG: I have. I watched it twice.
DC: Then you know what I mean.
KG: Yeah. So I think, one of the big rumors going around is that they died in a shack or that there has to be, you know, some other meaning than faith to it, which is something (note: "something" is the rumor) that we were trying to, kind of, get rid of.
DC: There was no shack involved. But that had a really, really, uh, compelling effect on me.
KG: Yeah, I think that movie in general - the first time I watched it, it had zero effect on me. I kind of sat through it and watched it and saw no meaning behind it because I just wanted to watch it as a movie. Then the second time I went back and watched it I cried the entire movie....
DC: I have to say, it had the same effect on me. In a different way. Because, you know, I don't understand what it's like to lose a sister but that movie had such a profound effect on everything about our life, that it was worth mentioning.

 

[Blanche]

I'm on mobile so I apologize for any misspellings or formatting, but I think it's important to bring the transcript of DC's comments on this here because if you hear/read his words I don't see how you can still question that The Shack is code for any evidentiary element to the crime.

From Scene of the Crime, A New Direction, starting at 50:10.

Narrator: After the press conference, online sleuths went into overdrive, questioning whether Carter's references to The Shack could be a coded message to the killer, or perhaps a confirmation that Abby and Libby's deaths has involved a shack....On our behalf, KG asked Superintendent Carter about his reference to The Shack.

KG: Another thing..."The Shack" was used in it (note: "it" is the April 2019 press conference). Was that on purpose?
DC: It was. Have you seen "The Shack?"
KG: I have. I watched it twice.
DC: Then you know what I mean.
KG: Yeah. So I think, one of the big rumors going around is that they died in a shack or that there has to be, you know, some other meaning than faith to it, which is something (note: "something" is the rumor) that we were trying to, kind of, get rid of.
DC: There was no shack involved. But that had a really, really, uh, compelling effect on me.
KG: Yeah, I think that movie in general - the first time I watched it, it had zero effect on me. I kind of sat through it and watched it and saw no meaning behind it because I just wanted to watch it as a movie. Then the second time I went back and watched it I cried the entire movie....
DC: I have to say, it had the same effect on me. In a different way. Because, you know, I don't understand what it's like to lose a sister but that movie had such a profound effect on everything about our life, that it was worth mentioning.

eh ? so it was all about DC? imo he should focus on catching the killer , the press conference should be focused on that not his feelings on the matter! wow!

 

[Blanche]

I don't think any conclusions about the crime can be drawn from the landowner's description of the crime scene as "pristine" when he visited the area after LE was finished processing it.

IIRC, LE spent four days processing that scene and one LE officer said they examined every leaf in the area. I would assume that if they did that and there was anything that looked like evidence on any leaf (or anything else) they examined there, it was taken into evidence. That is likely why the scene looked "pristine" to anyone visiting it after it was processed.

or it could be there was no blood there, they were both strangled.

 

[Yemelyan]

eh ? so it was all about DC? imo he should focus on catching the killer , the press conference should be focused on that not his feelings on the matter! wow!

Yeah, it was just a movie that he liked. He thought people who had experienced a loss due to murder would find solace in watching it. Perhaps more importantly, he thought that part of his job as leader of the ISP was not just to make sure that the investigation was running smoothly but to show his humanity to people who were mourning and offer them comfort. JMO

 

[Blanche]

Yeah, it was just a movie that he liked. He thought people who had experienced a loss due to murder would find solace in watching it. Perhaps more importantly, he thought that part of his job as leader of the ISP was not just to make sure that the investigation was running smoothly but to show his humanity to people who were mourning and offer them comfort. JMO

very strange to do that with reference to a movie ? odd imo and i think everyone would know he had humanity to people who were mourning , i think they would rather him catch the killer imo seem like they didn't have much at that press conference.

 

[TL4S]

very strange to do that with reference to a movie ? odd imo and i think everyone would know he had humanity to people who were mourning , i think they would rather him catch the killer imo seem like they didn't have much at that press conference.

Maybe his ultimate message was that good will prevail over evil. What more can anyone hope for?

 

[Yemelyan]

very strange to do that with reference to a movie ? odd imo and i think everyone would know he had humanity to people who were mourning , i think they would rather him catch the killer imo seem like they didn't have much at that press conference.

I think some people in Delphi probably hear him talking about overcoming adversity through faith and his appreciation for all the casseroles they brought to the command center and think, wow - that was awkward and unprofessional. I wish he'd make sure the killer is caught already. And then others think wow - he really cares about what we are going through as a community and mourns with us. The good news is that people can feel different ways about it and no one is wrong.

What may be a little misguided, IMO, is seeing what he said about The Shack when he clarified his remarks and then saying - hmmm, I still think he's lying and it really is a code or clue to the killer. That's a little odd to me just because Websleuths is a fact-based forum and that's as close to a fact as you can get to a fact from the mouth of LE: "There was no shack."

 

[JJ007]

I wonder if at the crime scene the killer left anything that alluded to this film or any religious sign /symbol? was it a hint maybe to the killer that we are on to you? JMO

It's possible. The only thing I can think of at the time that was popular tied to the movie or killer was his moniker aka The Lady Bug killer. I believe he left something at the scene like this - a pen/pin maybe - I forget. The only thing I can think of are these Lady Bug pins kids put in their crocs, which had recently made quite the comeback after being not cool for a while. It was right around this same time. I have kids and have found these around the house after they fell off their shoes and it dawned on me that I guess it's possible something like this was involved. Maybe in another way - like a screen name, potential find via Geocache, a gift, something taken, etc.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

From a different case: it would seem that the person putting up the money merely has to be someone who has this money. It is not telling otherwise at all.

I was perplexed about the mention, that DC told the donor, they thought the perp was from out of state. Had less to do with the money itself.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think some people in Delphi probably hear him talking about overcoming adversity through faith and his appreciation for all the casseroles they brought to the command center and think, wow - that was awkward and unprofessional. I wish he'd make sure the killer is caught already. And then others think wow - he really cares about what we are going through as a community and mourns with us. The good news is that people can feel different ways about it and no one is wrong.

What may be a little misguided, IMO, is seeing what he said about The Shack when he clarified his remarks and then saying - hmmm, I still think he's lying and it really is a code or clue to the killer. That's a little odd to me just because Websleuths is a fact-based forum and that's as close to a fact as you can get to a fact from the mouth of LE: "There was no shack."

About the shack...maybe a little misguided but understandable when you think about it. We've known since around Feb 24, 2017 that there is a building of some sort in those woods, by the creek. I think I remember when the news first came out, an article showing the location of the bodies being across the creek and a little downstream from that building. Which, to this day, still lines up with the distances given to the public.

But still, I think I've put the shack idea to bed. (Maybe it's a really nice little cabin). I'll just note that I've lived in IN all my life and I've never read, seen or heard of The Shack until Carter brought it up.

 

[Charlot123]

very strange to do that with reference to a movie ? odd imo and i think everyone would know he had humanity to people who were mourning , i think they would rather him catch the killer imo seem like they didn't have much at that press conference.

I understand why you are surprised, but just before the conference, he spoke to the relatives.

And...we don’t know what had been said, but I assume, something that took time to process. So perhaps that was the reason he mentioned “the Shack”, and also that the girls are not how they were left at the CS. DC was very emotional, and angry, but maybe it was hard to talk to the relatives?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I'm on mobile so I apologize for any misspellings or formatting, but I think it's important to bring the transcript of DC's comments on this here because if you hear/read his words I don't see how you can still question that The Shack is code for any evidentiary element to the crime.

From Scene of the Crime, A New Direction, starting at 50:10.

Narrator: After the press conference, online sleuths went into overdrive, questioning whether Carter's references to The Shack could be a coded message to the killer, or perhaps a confirmation that Abby and Libby's deaths has involved a shack....On our behalf, KG asked Superintendent Carter about his reference to The Shack.

KG: Another thing..."The Shack" was used in it (note: "it" is the April 2019 press conference). Was that on purpose?
DC: It was. Have you seen "The Shack?"
KG: I have. I watched it twice.
DC: Then you know what I mean.
KG: Yeah. So I think, one of the big rumors going around is that they died in a shack or that there has to be, you know, some other meaning than faith to it, which is something (note: "something" is the rumor) that we were trying to, kind of, get rid of.
DC: There was no shack involved. But that had a really, really, uh, compelling effect on me.
KG: Yeah, I think that movie in general - the first time I watched it, it had zero effect on me. I kind of sat through it and watched it and saw no meaning behind it because I just wanted to watch it as a movie. Then the second time I went back and watched it I cried the entire movie....
DC: I have to say, it had the same effect on me. In a different way. Because, you know, I don't understand what it's like to lose a sister but that movie had such a profound effect on everything about our life, that it was worth mentioning.

This explanation by Carter himself, his own words, seemingly written in black and white ink, carry no weight at all it would appear. It is always completely discarded so discussion may continue about the movie’s deep meaning in the case. I don’t get it.

 

[MistyWaters]

eh ? so it was all about DC? imo he should focus on catching the killer , the press conference should be focused on that not his feelings on the matter! wow!

Any public speaker should attempt to relate to their audience,
LE included IMO. DC’s PC certainly did attract attention. It was almost two years ago and we’re still talking about it! But I doubt he realized people might interpret what he said to be code talk or clues, indicating he knew the identity of the killer. If he did, there’d be no need for the pretence of asking for tips to lead to the identity of the killer. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I am still wondering if the person played pantomimes or something similar, and “arranged” the CS.
For example: if everything was not “accidental” but “meant to be”, starting with the shoe in the driveway, whatever he meant could have started with SHO(uld) CROSS ...

(I don’t know what else was there to “read” the rest). But accidental letters might be “connecting” parts of words, too.

This guy might have read Conan Doyle in his youth.

 

[TLC - IN]

then why the heck mention it , very odd, I'm sure the killer doesn't give two hoots about it

IMO, it was mentioned because BG is familiar with that title (both movie and book) and there is a very specific message in that movie (good v. evil, what was done vs. what you do, etc.).... I honestly believe that was a message directed AT the killer... you have to remember this is a "small" community. Appeals to the "everlasting soul" of the killer might actually work in this case.
I am still in the camp that this is a local that is involved in the community at a leadership level ( was in a position to misdirect the investigation; counseled the grief of the families/town). Small towns tend to "circle the wagons" when it comes to one of their own committing a crime, even one that gains international/national attention. All justice is "local" ... and the "story" is told to the rest. A town of this size does not want to be known for "THIS" event and will deal with matters as they see fit.

 

[Yemelyan]

About the shack...maybe a little misguided but understandable when you think about it. We've known since around Feb 24, 2017 that there is a building of some sort in those woods, by the creek. I think I remember when the news first came out, an article showing the location of the bodies being across the creek and a little downstream from that building. Which, to this day, still lines up with the distances given to the public.

But still, I think I've put the shack idea to bed. (Maybe it's a really nice little cabin). I'll just note that I've lived in IN all my life and I've never read, seen or heard of The Shack until Carter brought it up.

Right after the April 2019 press conference when he brought up "The Shack," it totally made sense to question why he said it because it did seem out of place and confusing. I'd say that other things in that speech did seem scripted so it begs the question - why? Was this part of the "script"? However, if he's asked a whole year later, point blank, to clarify and he says it's just something meaningful to him - that's when, IMO, there's no more point in coming up with other theories to explain it.

I can't transcribe the whole podcast, obviously, but right before the part with DC explaining why he said it, the narrator goes into why people are questioning - the fact that there was a shack not far away and that a shack may feature in another local crime. But even given all these apparent coincidences, he still says it was just about a movie that he saw and liked.