MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #5 - Chauvin Trial Day 2

Status
Not open for further replies.
I believe that the 4 minors were on the stand as they consisted of more than 50% of the folks standing there. To nip in the bud that it was a threatening angry mob that they feared for their safety. Police get yelled at by crowds.... it happens.

^^^This, plus one cop monitoring the people at the curb, then three (3) cops holding down one handcuffed man face down on the ground.
 
You bring up an important point and one that bystanders were likely not privy to at the time. He said he couldn’t breathe several times before he was taken to the ground. I wonder if that played any part in LE response to GF saying that he couldn’t breathe when DC was kneeling on him.
I have read several commentaries by law enforcement personnel, as well as attorneys, which indicate that individuals who have been arrested frequently behave in a highly agitated manner, complaining about pains or inability to breathe, as a ploy to gain leverage against LE... to break away. I’m supposing the defense will cite some of these scenarios and compare GFs behavior in a similar way. Especially since GF allegedly behaved similarly during his 2019 arrest. I believe the judge has allowed evidence from the 2019 into this trial.
 
Per your request... screen shot of tox part of autopsy of George FLoyd I have in my notes. 3 types of THC you can google... depends on if it's recent or longer and has metabolized...

View attachment 290685

EZdN396WsAAVlos

(Trust me, I know these types well ahaha, I just didn’t know it got that specific on tox. Of course it does...we’re living in the age of Parabon for goodness sakes. Maybe it’s always been that specific. Who knows. Didn’t mean to derail...thank you, interesting.)
 
Last edited:
I suspect they’ll have a hard time selling that it was just a simple drug overdose that happened to happen at the exact same time someone kneeled on his neck for nearly 10 minutes. But I’m sure they’ll try. What else are they supposed to do with video of the entire incident out there for all the world to see.

Back to my stabbing victim... if they happened to have a potentially lethal dose of drugs in their system, and it took a long time for the ambulance to arrive while they bled out, I doubt I’m off the hook for stabbing them.
I may be wrong but according to the ME, and the amount of drugs in his system, I'm not so sure that would qualify as a "simple drug overdose".
 
You bring up an important point and one that bystanders were likely not privy to at the time. He said he couldn’t breathe several times before he was taken to the ground. I wonder if that played any part in LE response to GF saying that he couldn’t breathe when DC was kneeling on him.
As a person with training, I will say this. She could have used her hands to do chest compressions to oxygenate blood and move it through his system. She didn't need anything else until more advanced help would arrive as she didn't have access to any other items.

There was not a disgrace in these people stating what they saw. Chauvin and his team had a duty of care as Mr. Floyd was in their custody. If he was unconscious, the training I have is that the person is checked for breathing and pulse, if breathing and pulse but unconscious they are placed in the recovery position. If not breathing but pulse, you check the airway for any issues. If not breathing and no pulse, you begin compressions as the brain and other tissues with rapidly deteriorate and lessen the chance of survival.

Mr. Floyd would be unable to get up easily if he regained consciousness as he was cuffed. The LE could have left the other two on his low body and he would not have been able to move at all.

According to the training I have (done with Fire, Rescue, and Police), she was right to say what was needed. They gave no aid and didn't perform the assessments that they should have after he lost consciousness.
Imo there is more that will be revealed. These cops didn't know her credentials. An ambulance was on its way. I do think the cops kept their eyes on the crowd, which was the threat to them. While doing so, too much time passed, unfortunately. I think the growing crowd, threats & yelling did play a part if care was neglected.
 
Of course right before the fireworks start my neighbor stops by and distracts me so I’m just now catching up on our audacious firefighter!! Whoa!

She was outta line. She was hostile towards Nelson’s questions. She didn’t want to look at her previous statements to be refreshed. She was asked repeatedly to wait for the question to be finished before answering. She literally completely cut him off at one point after the first word of his question was uttered. She grew disdainful and impatient as the questions continued. She came across as arrogant and unprofessional. I don’t know why she wasn’t prepped properly. I think the issue with these witnesses is that they’ve been on social media maybe and talking about this event and their outrage has been likely building. They don’t realize this is a courtroom. It’s not a showdown. There’s a process and a certain level of professionalism is required!

She came across so well on direct and completely lost the plot on cross!! What a disappointment. I have never seen a judge talk to a witness like that before and I’ve watched a good amount of trials!! Never seen that! Judge was not having it! And she asked him so rudely if the cameras were still on - she was embarrassed to be addressed that way and broadcasted all over but she deserved it. Judge had to put her in her place!

Edited to add - Just saw the mod note about not trashing ppl. I am not sure if this comment is considered trashing. It’s my genuine impression. I had a very positive impression of her during her direct exam but her performance on cross was poor. Clearly the judge thought so too.
 
Last edited:
Imo there is more that will be revealed. These cops didn't know her credentials. An ambulance was on its way. I do think the cops kept their eyes on the crowd, which was the threat to them. While doing so, too much time passed, unfortunately. I think the growing crowd, threats & yelling did play a part if care was neglected.

In the almost 9 minute video, we do not see the cops threatened. Yes, there were people saying nasty things---what would anyone have them do as they slowly killed him and didn't let up on his neck? Regardless of what was on the way, the cops have training and are trained to provide care to unconscious people. In any other scene, they would be expected to provide care rather than look at their watches and not help. There were four cops on this scene. Any two of them could have created a perimeter, moved the people back while the others provided care. They could have called for backup but did not. But, the most important thing here is that the crowd gathered as they kept a knee on his neck and he lost consciousness. If they rendered aid, I don't believe the crowd would have gotten more upset.


The suggestion that it was an unruly crowd is not born out by the videos of the scene AND it is a familiar refrain when it comes to people of color gathered at situations.
 
In the almost 9 minute video, we do not see the cops threatened. Yes, there were people saying nasty things---what would anyone have them do as they slowly killed him and didn't let up on his neck? Regardless of what was on the way, the cops have training and are trained to provide care to unconscious people. In any other scene, they would be expected to provide care rather than look at their watches and not help. There were four cops on this scene. Any two of them could have created a perimeter, moved the people back while the others provided care. They could have called for backup but did not. But, the most important thing here is that the crowd gathered as they kept a knee on his neck and he lost consciousness. If they rendered aid, I don't believe the crowd would have gotten more upset.


The suggestion that it was an unruly crowd is not born out by the videos of the scene AND it is a familiar refrain when it comes to people of color gathered at situations.

Speaking of training.

  • The Minnesota Police Department included instructions on how to use a controversial neck restraint in its training manual, according to court documents, the same type of restraint that was used on George Floyd.
The Minneapolis Police Department trained its officers to use the neck restraint that led to George Floyd's killing, according to court documents
 
I kept telling myself that I wasn't going to start posting about this trial... but here I am! I have been watching, but of course had to turn it off earlier and just watched the cross exam. Wow is all I can say. I've watched lots of trials and can say I've never watched a judge direct a witness like that and the witness get mouthy with the judge!!! What the heck!

I have a question for those of you that have been obviously been keeping up to date and following this more than I have... I have watched the videos, some repeatedly, and I assumed the stream of liquid on the ground was also urine, but Nelson asked the witness today about it, and I got the impression that it was maybe not urine? Anyone have clue if it was something else?
 
I have read several commentaries by law enforcement personnel, as well as attorneys, which indicate that individuals who have been arrested frequently behave in a highly agitated manner, complaining about pains or inability to breathe, as a ploy to gain leverage against LE... to break away. I’m supposing the defense will cite some of these scenarios and compare GFs behavior in a similar way. Especially since GF allegedly behaved similarly during his 2019 arrest. I believe the judge has allowed evidence from the 2019 into this trial.

I’m sure there are plenty of cases in which false claims are made by individuals who have been arrested. If the defense is going to cite these cases, will these cases be used as a reason for Chauvin and crew to restrain Mr Floyd in the manner they did? If so, are the attorneys implying that what other suspects have done (or even what Mr Floyd may have done during another arrest) was justification for Chauvin and crew to assume Mr Floyd is misrepresenting his symptoms, refuse to help him and treat Mr Floyd in an inhumane manner?

If so, it would be like someone going to ER with chest pains and the treatment is based on the fact that others with the same symptoms have been diagnosed with an anxiety attack. So rather than performing the usual tests to rule out a heart attack, nothing is done but an Rx for Xanax. Every individual is entitled to be treated like an individual and have their symptoms be taken seriously. This would be grounds for malpractice. It is certainly not a defense for what Chauvin and crew did and should not provide the jury with “reasonable doubt.”
JMO
 
I kept telling myself that I wasn't going to start posting about this trial... but here I am! I have been watching, but of course had to turn it off earlier and just watched the cross exam. Wow is all I can say. I've watched lots of trials and can say I've never watched a judge direct a witness like that and the witness get mouthy with the judge!!! What the heck!

I have a question for those of you that have been obviously been keeping up to date and following this more than I have... I have watched the videos, some repeatedly, and I assumed the stream of liquid on the ground was also urine, but Nelson asked the witness today about it, and I got the impression that it was maybe not urine? Anyone have clue if it was something else?

Hansen described Floyd's face as "puffy and swollen" and that she saw fluid she assumed was urine coming from Floyd's body, explaining that patients often release their bladder when they die.

Key takeaways from Day 2 of the Derek Chauvin trial
 
Oh I just remembered Henry Segura got mouthy with Judge Hankinson during his cross exam when the judge told him not to interrupt the prosecutor and wait for her to finish her question. And judge admonished him in front of the jury! Segura said something like “who are you talking to? I’m a grown man!” Lol.
 
Hansen described Floyd's face as "puffy and swollen" and that she saw fluid she assumed was urine coming from Floyd's body, explaining that patients often release their bladder when they die.

Key takeaways from Day 2 of the Derek Chauvin trial

I was just wondering if there was a reason he asked her that question specifically, I got the impression that we might find out it was not urine. I had assumed it was urine as well, so was curious if there was any information out there that it wasn't.
 
I was just wondering if there was a reason he asked her that question specifically, I got the impression that we might find out it was not urine. I had assumed it was urine as well, so was curious if there was any information out there that it wasn't.

It sounds like it wasn’t urine. Nelson is basically trying to say she jumped to conclusions and didn’t have all the info. He’s trying to discredit her testimony or put a ding on it. It wasn’t urine, he didn’t have his hands in his pocket, you thought 4 officers were kneeling on him when it was 3, you didn’t know the medics had already been called, you didn’t know the other officers had already checked his pulse cause you couldn’t hear/see them.....but you called the officer a b****, right?

The thing is Nelson is not even that confrontational in his questioning. I’ve seen much worse. He’s not that bad. But most defense attorneys try to put the witness on the defensive bc it makes the witness come off poorly. This is where a good prep would’ve been handy for Ms. Nelson. But it sounds like she didn’t even want to make time to read the transcript of her previous statements. Smh.

Edited to add: Also GF had pants on so if he had urinated it would’ve been absorbed by his pants not flow out like that in such a long line I don’t think?
 
I have read several commentaries by law enforcement personnel, as well as attorneys, which indicate that individuals who have been arrested frequently behave in a highly agitated manner, complaining about pains or inability to breathe, as a ploy to gain leverage against LE... to break away. I’m supposing the defense will cite some of these scenarios and compare GFs behavior in a similar way. Especially since GF allegedly behaved similarly during his 2019 arrest. I believe the judge has allowed evidence from the 2019 into this trial.

Part of GF behavior will be allowed in per hearing a while back. (I cannot find that information, perhaps someone else can as it was very specific) But also, some of Chauvin's past will too.

Originally posted by @Weki

Judge ruled Wednesday that 2 out of 8 prior incidents with Chauvin would be coming in as ‘he knew better’ for #3 and modus operandi evidence for #5:

Incident No. 3 — Aug. 22, 2015:On August 22, 2015, Defendant Chauvin participated with other officers in rendering aid to a suicidal, intoxicated, and mentally-disturbed male. Chauvin observed other officers physically struggle with the male and one officer used a Taser on the male, to little avail. Eventually, the officers were able to put the male on the ground and place handcuffs on him. Chauvin and the other officers then immediately put the male in the side-recovery position, consistent with training. Chauvin rode with the male to the hospital for medical care. Officers involved in the response received a recommendation for an award for their appropriate efforts and received feedback from medical professionals that, if officers had prolonged their detention of the male or failed to transport the male to the hospital in a timely manner, the male could have died.

Incident No. 5 — June 25, 2017:On June 25, 2017, Defendant Chauvin went to place a female under arrest in her home. As the female walked by, Chauvin grabbed one of her arms and told her she was under arrest. The female tried to pull away, and Chauvin applied a handcuff to one wrist. As the female tried to twist away, Chauvin pulled her down to the ground in the prone position and kneeled on her body to pin her to the ground. After being handcuffed, the female refused to stand, so Chauvin carried her out of the house in a prone position and set her face down on the sidewalk. Even though the female was not physically resisting in any way, Chauvin kneeled on her body, using his body weight to pin her to the ground while another officer moved the squad car closer. Chauvin then directed the other officer to apply a Hobble restraint to the female even though she was not providing any physical resistance. Chauvin’s conduct in kneeling on the female during this entire time was more force than was reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials...hog-tie-a-suspect-who-wasnt-resisting-arrest/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
247
Guests online
1,460
Total visitors
1,707

Forum statistics

Threads
589,164
Messages
17,914,825
Members
227,741
Latest member
Drury Lane
Back
Top