Norway Norway - Oslo, WhtFem 20-30, Fake Name, shot in hotel room, Jun'95

[Curious_in_NC]

Carrying a pistol around in a small attaché case which contains only it and some loose ammo really isn't a very clever thing to be doing. Looks like a very good way to get such a thing spotted. I appreciate that you travelled all over the place without being stopped or checked but you might have been and it would only take one check for her to be arrested for possession of the gun or even shot by a nervy cop. She was either given it by someone like a customer or had some sort of criminal involvement and was holding it for someone or was taking it somewhere for someone. Attractive, well presented mid-20's women are not the types who regularly travel with illegal, high-capacity military handguns.

ITA. And if suicide was ever the original plan, why bring 33 more rounds than needed?

 

[lonewanderer]

And as has been mentioned numerous times: where were all of her bottom garments. No underwear, except the one pair. No pants. No skirt. So....how did she get rid of her extra clothing? Run out pants-less, wearing just the silk shorts? That would draw so much attention....

I have a theory I've posted in this thread more than once, that "Louis" was a female name and that "Jennifer" and "Louise" were two women that looked very much alike.

Anyways...this could also explain how all of the clothing went missing. The other woman just packed it up and took it after she left, or pre-packed it and took it out of the room before killing the other women (and she never saw it coming), or some other way.

Personally, when I put two women being together in this situation it explains a lot of the conflicting accounts about seeing her in two different places at the same time, the differences in the accents, the lack of seeing a man with "Jennifer", and other little details.

 

[Beekarina]

ITA. And if suicide was ever the original plan, why bring 33 more rounds than needed?

There is so much about this case that seems intentionally confusing.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I have a theory I've posted in this thread more than once, that "Louis" was a female name and that "Jennifer" and "Louise" were two women that looked very much alike.

Anyways...this could also explain how all of the clothing went missing. The other woman just packed it up and took it after she left, or pre-packed it and took it out of the room before killing the other women (and she never saw it coming), or some other way.

Personally, when I put two women being together in this situation it explains a lot of the conflicting accounts about seeing her in two different places at the same time, the differences in the accents, the lack of seeing a man with "Jennifer", and other little details.

I still don't buy that she was killed by another person. It would mean that the other person either had their hand over hers when she was shot or that they transferred the gun into her hand after she was shot. If it was the first scenario then why was there no struggle? Although she could have been incapacitated. The second scenario is most unlikely as we know that the trigger had not reset after the shot as the police heard the sear reset itself when they removed her thumb from the trigger. Being able to transfer the gun to her hand whilst maintaining pressure on the trigger would have been extremely difficult indeed.

It might have been possible that she was shot by someone else if the shots were the other way around; if the first one was the one which killed her then it is plausible that the killer then put the gun into her hand and fired the "test" shot into the bed. It all seems rather convoluted and unnecessary though. It also seems rather implausible as to why you would kill someone in a hotel room with a relatively noisy gun and hope to get clean away! It's too random to have been a well planned execution.

 

[Feme98]

Based on the evidence, i think that she committed suicide.

Perhaps she wanted to know if the shot would be muffled or if the gun was working, by using the mattress, after checking that it worked, she then used it on herself.

IMO.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Based on the evidence, i think that she committed suicide.

Perhaps she wanted to know if the shot would be muffled or if the gun was working, by using the mattress, after checking that it worked, she then used it on herself.

IMO.

I agree that it was a suicide. I don't think that the evidence is credible enough to suggest anything else. Yes, the lack of clothes, ID and other personal items are most strange, and may even point to someone else being involved with her in some capacity during her final hours, but I don't see anything which seriously suggests that someone else actually shot her.

The thing I still don't understand though is the other shot - the one fired into the bed. Let me explain; I'm not an expert on suicide by firearm (but I do have a reasonable knowledge of firearms and the people who use them) so this is totally anecdotal. It would appear from what I can tell that it's usually the case that people who commit suicide with a firearm have some knowledge, training or experience with firearms, or at least with the firearm that they use to kill themselves. It would (in my opinion) be very unusual for someone who had no knowledge of firearms to use one to kill them self, is what I'm saying. If the gun was hers then she would presumably know that it, and the ammo she had for it, worked. Why would you have a gun of dubious reliability with you if you felt the need to have a gun in the first place? That also completely blows out of the water any suggestion that she was an espionage agent, as who on earth sends an agent out with a dubious gun and what agent goes out with an unverified weapon? Also, firing a "test" shot and then a fatal shot twenty minutes later is hardly the mark of an efficient secret agent. You'd just shoot yourself!

The problem with the "test shot" hypothesis is that a 9mm pistol is really noisy, especially in a confined environment like a hotel room. So, if you had any sort of firearms experience you'd know that it would be very likely to attract attention. Yet, if it were the case that you had firearms experience then you'd know that the gun probably worked to begin with and wouldn't need a test firing!

Let's assume that she had little or no firearms experience though. Firing that shot by a novice shooter on their own would have been, in my opinion, a deeply unsettling and disturbing experience; the noise would have been painful to the ears (not withstanding that it was fired with the muzzle against the mattress (it would still have been extremely loud), there would have been a blast of muzzle gasses which she would feel and smell, the pistol would have recoiled against her hand and a cartridge case would have been flung out of the side of the gun - it would have been a very "dynamic", dramatic and extreme experience. Even if she had researched or had been briefed in what to expect it would still have been a traumatic experience. To then compose oneself in a somewhat relaxed position and shoot yourself in the head would be quite something.

I can't explain the other shot but I see no evidence that the fatal one was anything other than suicide.

 

[annpats]

Suicide or murder. Whichever one it was, it doesn't really matter too much now. However she died won't give us anymore clues into finding out who she was - and that's the most important thing in my opinion.

If she was a high class escort, why have the gun and all those bullets?

If she was a spy, why be so sloppy with ID and street names/towns/post codes that don't match up.

What if the hotel receptionist had asked for her passport? She must have had one. Would that have been fake too?

Did she leave her other belongings in someone else's room....or did someone else take them there?

She seemed to keep very unusual hours according to the room key card info.

If she was going to commit suicide, why not do it straight away after check-in?

And why, if suicide, did she have so many bullets?

Hmmmm....just my musings and opinions. MOO.

 

[Beekarina]

re: compose oneself in a somewhat relaxed position and shoot yourself in the head would be quite something.

She was never tested for substances though, correct? And we know there is the unusual circumstance with the half-eaten meal, and the undigested food, from room service the prior evening.

And as for her hand, why wasn't IT flung to the side a bit? If things were as you suspect, might the kick of the gun have cocked her hand a bit too? It looks so straight in the photos.

 

[dedicatenit]

I don't think this helps at all. It is still as big a mystery as ever.

I have to say, all these many months later, that the article actually does advance the subject for me, after having read mainly the famous VG article. This new one mentions the illicit art trade amongst Eastern Bloc nations, and thus provides yet another possible reason for Jennifer and her roommate's presence in Oslo.

Otherwise, I'd really like to know the context of the complaint(s) received about the couple from guests, such as what they were allegedly doing to set off the complaints.

 

[dedicatenit]

Wow, this is incredibly interesting. Now, I myself have maintained that that address didn't just appear randomly out of Jennifer's mind - she was putting together other locations which she herself was familiar with. This is fantastic detective work!

Having said that, does it lead us anywhere? If nothing else, it draws a direct connection beteen Jennifer and Belgium, this particular part of Belgium in particular. I'm really going to sink my teeth into this one...

 

[Marantz4250b]

Suicide or murder. Whichever one it was, it doesn't really matter too much now. However she died won't give us anymore clues into finding out who she was - and that's the most important thing in my opinion.

If she was a high class escort, why have the gun and all those bullets?

If she was a spy, why be so sloppy with ID and street names/towns/post codes that don't match up.

What if the hotel receptionist had asked for her passport? She must have had one. Would that have been fake too?

Did she leave her other belongings in someone else's room....or did someone else take them there?

She seemed to keep very unusual hours according to the room key card info.

If she was going to commit suicide, why not do it straight away after check-in?

And why, if suicide, did she have so many bullets?

Hmmmm....just my musings and opinions. MOO.

I agree with pretty much everything here. The "spy" theory is ridiculous, quite frankly.

The passport thing I addressed in a previous post; I don't think she was asked for one because I think that whomever checked her in knew her (although not necessarily her real name) or whomever was picking up the bill and let it slide for whatever reason.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Wow, this is incredibly interesting. Now, I myself have maintained that that address didn't just appear randomly out of Jennifer's mind - she was putting together other locations which she herself was familiar with. This is fantastic detective work!

Having said that, does it lead us anywhere? If nothing else, it draws a direct connection beteen Jennifer and Belgium, this particular part of Belgium in particular. I'm really going to sink my teeth into this one...

I agree but that "direct" connection may have been very tenuous at best. I mean she may have no connection to the place at all other than having passed through it while on holiday as a child or back-packing as a teenager or something? You only need to remember a single street name and the postcode and you can invent anything else. Even the street name was common, "Station Road" or something was the English translation - that will be a very common name in Western Europe as most towns, even small ones, would have had a train station at some point. I can think of at least two streets by that name which I could walk to within 15 minutes from where I am now. I could probably drive to a dozen within an afternoon.

 

[annpats]

="Marantz4250b, post: 16729577 You only need to remember a single street name and the postcode and you can invent anything else. Even the street name was common, "Station Road" or something was

Yes, but the name of the place she used was a tiny village. Seems strange to chance upon that, and even weirder that the street she chose, didn't have that particular number house there. She must have known that.

Although the people in that street were asked about her and knew nothing....

The Postcode is completely made up from another part of Belgium, I think. 4 digits. Although lots if European countries postcodes have 4 digits.

She must've had a map of Europe (or at least Belgium) to chance upon this village and street name, unless she did, somewhere, have a personal connection.

If she was 'known' by the hotel receptionist due to previous visits, I wonder what address she gave then, on her first visit? How many years had she been going there? Oh, if only we knew....

 

[Marantz4250b]

Yes, but the name of the place she used was a tiny village. Seems strange to chance upon that, and even weirder that the street she chose, didn't have that particular number house there. She must have known that.

Although the people in that street were asked about her and knew nothing....

The Postcode is completely made up from another part of Belgium, I think. 4 digits. Although lots if European countries postcodes have 4 digits.

She must've had a map of Europe (or at least Belgium) to chance upon this village and street name, unless she did, somewhere, have a personal connection.

If she was 'known' by the hotel receptionist due to previous visits, I wonder what address she gave then, on her first visit? How many years had she been going there? Oh, if only we knew....

Yes, you're right about the postcode, it relates to somewhere in Hungary - which is coincidental as the gun she used was built partially from Hungarian parts.

What I'm saying though is that that village, Verlaine, may be somewhere she has the most tenuous of connections to; she may have passed through as a traveller or as a child on holiday or for some other reason. She may never even have visited and might have heard of it in a totally unconnected manner; perhaps she studied the First World War and Belgium was a place of serious action during that conflict; perhaps Verlaine itself saw some nearby action during that conflict and her great grandfather told her war stories and recalled being billeted on Rue De La Station in Verlaine before a big battle?* It's all speculation but simply providing it as an address means very little, as far I can see. Just because she gave that name doesn't mean that she has any real connection to it or has any in depth knowledge of it.

As an example; in 1988, when I was 17, we had a family holiday near a small place in France which I think was called St Fortunade. If I were checking into a foreign hotel I could easily give that as a place of residence if I were pretending to be French. I'd only need to recall one street name. There's a chance it has a "Station Road" (I don't know I haven't checked Google Maps) but even if it doesn't then so what - who at a hotel bothers to check someone's actual address? But Station Road at least appears to be very plausible as it's undoubtedly a very common name.

I don't think it matters what address she may have given previously - if they were allowing her in with no ID then it's not really relevant as she'd be giving a fake address each time anyway, even if it was the same one.

Her check-in details are so sketchy though, and so bereft of all the usual requirements that I do not believe that she could have got away with it unless someone at the hotel allowed her to do so. Either because they knew her as a regular or they knew whomever was picking up the bill for her room. As mentioned before, hotels are often remarkably dodgy in their business practices and let lots of things slide when it involves regular or important clients or big spenders. They are good at putting up a respectable front but are also very good indeed in "taking care" of important clients or protecting their, or the hotel's, reputation. Hotels, when you think about it, are all about secrecy - they are, after all, little more than a collection of bedrooms! If a regular client, perhaps someone who's company spends tons of money each year with that hotel, or an important politician, actor or musician lets it be known that they'd like to have someone checked-in "no questions asked" then I have little doubt that the hotel would do it. I know people in that industry and it happens literally all the time. She was either unbelievably lucky to have not been asked for the usual proof of ID or someone allowed her to check-in without it. Which is more likely? I have no doubt that the most likely answer is the true one.

* I've just had more thoughts on that and, perhaps, that street had numbers higher than 100 at some point? I think she gave the address as 148? If it did then who's to say that there isn't some tenuous connection she, or her family has with that address?

 

[dedicatenit]

I do not see 7968, I see 7568 and this postcode exists in Mersch, Luxembourg.
So many possibilities...

In a weird coincidence, Paliseul exists "in municipality of Belgium located in the province of Luxembourg." According to Aluev's post, just about the whole thing points to locations within Paliseul - the just need full interpretation. Note that the two Luxembourges are completely different places, but I can't help but think there must be something to it...

 

[annpats]

Yes, and of course geographically, Luxembourg (the country) has borders with Belgium, France and Germany. Interesting.....

 

[DizDreamer]

View attachment 271423 View attachment 271426 Assuming this young woman has been ruled out? She is German, in the age range, height range. Disappeared in 1990. Christina Hermert View Yellow Notices

Edited to add I do not really see much of a resemblance. Just curious if we are able to know who has been ruled out? While looking through missing, Jennifer looks the most like the young women from Belgium and France.

I am rather new here and was wondering if anyone had provided information on who had been ruled out? I just watched this case on unsolved mysteries and it captured my attention. I also was wondering if Christina Hermert had been ruled out? I am not sure if I see a resemblance, but Christina Hermert's Doe Network profile
The Doe Network: Case File 1062DFDEU states the clothing she was wearing at the time of her disappearance. They both have grey sweaters, beige jackets, and a black shoulder bag. Also was wondering if anyone knew Jennifer's exact shoe size? Thank you for listening in advance!

 

[Hopnot3]

Hi, New here. I just want to jump in. Okay I look into this like others and Belgium keep popping up. Her language she speaking is Estonia language the work place she put is Cerbis Belgia and Belgia means Belgium in Estonia language. Also Fairgate means fairies and she wrote feigate which means fairy in Estonia. All of this keep leaning towards literature like poetry and authors I might be wrong about her fascination with literature. Searching Rue De La Verlaine area there is a school but no telling how long it was there. She could have been anyone she could have been a teacher or a mother sister. Someone gave her life. Geez hope someone claim her. Not sure how the area was in 1995 probably not much change seem a small town.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

My two cents on this. I hadn't followed closely until the documentary, but I've been thinking and here are some possibly pertinent thoughts. Some of it may be completely irrelevant but it might spark a thought or two:

FERGATE

- "Fergate" spelled this way is a surname in Morocco and Algeria only;
- "Fergate" is an Indian brand of ferrous sulfate iron tablets. These are produced in a town called Vellore in India (reminded me of Verlaine).

HOW DID THEY COME UP WITH FAIRGATE? TV LINKS?

- There was a big TV soap called Knots Landing, a Dallas spin-off, in the 1980s and 90s. The main character was Karen Fairgate. There was another major character called Valene;
- Knots Landing was created by David Jacobs, who created Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman;
- A major character in Lois & Clark is Kathy, played by Jennifer Hooper;
- Lois & Clark was broadcast only in the UK/Ireland/US between 1993-95-97.

NORWEGIAN INTELLIGENCE GROUP THAT USES COUPLES - FOUNDED IN 1995

- The "E 14" group was founded in 1995 and classified to the highest level;
- "E 14" is known to use coupled agents on missions;
- They seem to have been used in many countries, but their true nature and missions will of course be secret.

ISRAEL/MOSSAD ASSASSINATION SPREE

- Mossad were known to be actively assassinating enemies in Europe in the early-mid 1990s, with at least Gerald Bull in Belgium (1990) and Atef Bseiso in Paris (1992);
- Mossad previously had a major hit go wrong (they killed the wrong guy) in 1973 in the Lillehammer Affair.

FINLAND'S TITTINEN LIST?

- In 1990 the new German intelligence service gave a list of all the Finnish citizens who had been communicating with the Stasi to the Finnish government (who very quickly locked it away);
- Could the fallout from this list have involved hits in Oslo? Could there have been a similar list for Norway? If our Jane Doe is German, could this German programme of informing nations of Stasi links have something to do with clandestine meetings and possibly hits in Oslo?

MAJOR NATO-RUSSIA SUMMIT IN NETHERLANDS ON 31 MAY 1995

- This is background only and pure speculation, but NATO, which I believe was chaired by Norway at the time, held a two-day summit in the Netherlands with Russia, in which they announced an unprecedented cooperation agreement.

NEARBY PALESTINE MISSION/EMBASSY

- Just some background perhaps, but the Palestinian mission is the closest diplomatic mission to the Plaza Hotel by far, it's a 600m walk from the door.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

OK... This is good info, but I was having trouble visualizing things... So I made my own version 3.0 with color to bring out the patterns of usage. Also used a "6" instead of a "b" for the first character of one of the card IDs.

**NOTE**
Card ID #s and "User Types" are grouped by color. The more "off" an entry seems to me MOO - The darker the shade of that color.


ETA:
Not sure why the uploaded version won't go full-size. Ima try to post it inline.

I just noticed I messed up the date on the Saturday entries. It should read 06-03-95 on all the ones that say 06-06-95. SMH bc I flattened the image and saved it as a .jpg... so there's no quick n' easy way to edit that ATM.

Wow good find. So she came back with key 2A, but key 2A wasn't found when the police investigated, and instead key 1A was found. This, plus other factors, e.g. someone ordering room service without realising no card was on file, really strongly points to the idea that 2+ people were involved in whatever this room/death was for.