MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #10 - Chauvin Trial Day 7

[ElizaKate]

Ok, I had a kid talking so I missed that. Interesting if so. The State made it seem like Chauvin decided not to use the Hobble because it would then require a supervisor to be called.

and we are abruptly done for the day??? hmmmm

Hmmm. Interesting. Different point raised by this witness.

 

[Tom_Servo]

Which part of the next up charge do you not think was met?

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

This, right here:

"evincing a depraved mind"

The totality of Chauvins actions do not meet that clause. Not even sure why that has to be in their statute. Seems dumb to me but it's there and proving Chauvin has/had a depraved mind has not been proven to me. Doesn't even seem the prosecution is trying to prove that. Very strange to have that specific wording in the charge guidelines but it's there.

 

[missy1974]

@PaulBlume_FOX9

Judge Cahill indicated there may be a legal issue that needs to be addressed with the testimony of the state's use of force expert. Cahill sent the jury home.

oh thank you! I was afraid to rewind! I wonder if we will see arguments? andd nope, it's gone

 

[margarita25]

Qmfr

Making note for further research, re: “both sides of the neck needing to be pressed in order to render one unconscious”. (Nelson says this on cross to Mercil, to which Mercil agrees.)

So how then does any individual die from a blocked carotid artery on only side of their body?

This may be a brain fart post, but if true (“both sides of the neck needing to be pressed in order to render one unconscious“), the equal and opposite Newton reaction thing that was mentioned last night may help allegorize ...we know that if there is pressure on one side of neck, the other side was also being pressed into the pavement heavily, hence there being pressure on that side of the neck also. I’ve still got it on pause and reflecting, so anxious to hear where the rest is going. I hope I explained this thought, I guess what I’m saying is that just because force may be being deliberately applied on one side, it doesn’t mean there wasn’t also resulting pressure on the other end.

 

[CrimeAway]

That doesn't necessarily mean that the carotid on the road side was being compressed to an equal degree (would depend on actual contact between relevant neck structures and ground) IMO. Also, if that was the case, wouldn't GF have lost consciousness in a matter of seconds (as Lt. Mercil agreed to IIRC).

 

[Weki]

Wow such an abrupt ending today. I was not impressed with the state expert. Again, repetitive and the witness seemed unprepared for basic questions and didn’t answer questions fully. Not sure why state is putting up an expert in its case in chief. This could be a rebuttal witness. State already made a very convincing case through the MPD witnesses. They had the Chief of Police for goodness sake!

They needed to move to medical testimony. Cause I bet that’s what the jury is wondering now - did GF overdose? Instead State is hitting them upside the head with the same stuff! And the defense experts in police trials are usually very confident and intimidating! State needs an expert who can match that energy!

 

[missy1974]

@PaulBlume_FOX9

Judge Cahill indicated there may be a legal issue that needs to be addressed with the testimony of the state's use of force expert. Cahill sent the jury home.

hmmm I went back, the judge said, we are actually going to break for the day, the Sgt will be back tomorrow and we'll resume then, shoot for 9:15 and he got up and left.

 

[ElizaKate]

This, right here:

"evincing a depraved mind"

The totality of Chauvins actions do not meet that clause. Not even sure why that has to be in their statute. Seems dumb to me but it's there and proving Chauvin has/had a depraved mind has not been proven to me. Doesn't even seem the prosecution is trying to prove that. Very strange to have that specific wording in the charge guidelines but it's there.

Do the jury instructions help explain the "envincing a depraved mind".

Quick google (cause I'm sleepy and lacking the will to look in depth currently)

"conduct demonstrating an indifference to the life of others, that is not only disregard for the safety of another but a lack of regard for the life of another"....

Source: Criminal Law and Procedure

 

[ReadySet]

DBM

 

[Weki]

hmmm I went back, the judge said, we are actually going to break for the day, the Sgt will be back tomorrow and we'll resume then, shoot for 9:15 and he got up and left.

Did he seem annoyed or is that just me?? This judge is a bit temperamental.

 

[angelainwi]

On the livestream I'm watching Judge is hearing arguments re 5th ammendment for Hall

Watch live: Derek Chauvin trial resumes Wednesday morning

They must be replaying that from 8:30 this morning

 

[missy1974]

Did he seem annoyed or is that just me?? This judge is a bit temperamental.

He seemed his normal blunt self LOL Not sure why that tweet said it was a legal issue (but he might have an insider).

I was reading some of his tweets from earlier today..

just an fyi for everyone:
Paul Blume
@PaulBlume_FOX9


Replying to
@PaulBlume_FOX9
You may have heard during today's noontime prayer gathering in #Mpls,
@AttorneyCrump
mentioned #GeorgeFloyd autopsy photos might be presented to the jury today. This is not true. Our courthouse sources are telling us, this type of graphic evidence is expected later in the week.

 

[Sillybilly]

Do the jury instructions help explain the "envincing a depraved mind".

Quick google (cause I'm sleepy and lacking the will to look in depth currently)

"conduct demonstrating an indifference to the life of others, that is not only disregard for the safety of another but a lack of regard for the life of another"....

Source: Criminal Law and Procedure

Here's a Minnesota case with judge's jury instruction regarding depraved mind as an example:

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...ases/27-CR-18-6859/JuryInstructions042919.pdf

 

[Deleted member 278]

DBM

 

[sds71]

https://twitter.com/AnaViLastra
After Schleicher asks for a short sidebar, Judge Cahill announces they'll break for the day. Will reconvene at 9:15 a.m.

I'm looking forward to reading the pool reporter's notes on this moment, because it felt abrupt from my end.

Disappointing notes from the pool reporter. "Court ended abruptly and somewhat mysteriously about an hour earlier than expected."

*Disappointing because the pool reporter also doesn't know

 

[margarita25]

BBM:

That doesn't necessarily mean that the carotid on the road side was being compressed to an equal degree (would depend on actual contact between relevant neck structures and ground) IMO. Also, if that was the case, wouldn't GF have lost consciousness in a matter of seconds (as Lt. Mercil agreed to IIRC).

I hear ya, I started delving into this more last night as the equal and opposite reaction discussion here was unfolding, but I think realized I better brush up on my physics before proceeding lol.

I agree the angle/contact point would play a role, or shall I say to be more accurate quoting “would depend on actual contact between relevant neck structures and ground”, but I need to brush up on Newton with relevancy to concrete.

*again apologizing in advance for any brainfarts along the way.

 

[Chelly]

@cathyrusson
·
28m
#DerekChauvinTrial - ABRUPT ending to court today. In the middle of use of force expert testimony, there was a sidebar, after sidebar, judge sent the jury home for the day.

 

[margarita25]

rsbm
Replying to
@PaulBlume_FOX9
You may have heard during today's noontime prayer gathering in #Mpls,
@AttorneyCrump
mentioned #GeorgeFloyd autopsy photos might be presented to the jury today. This is not true. Our courthouse sources are telling us, this type of graphic evidence is expected later in the week.

(Ugh, are you kidding, autopsy photos, omg no way. I will definitely pass on that. I do appreciate the relevant notes though, but man. It seems I’ve forgotten/didn’t think about this actually being shown in the trial (autopsy photos). Ugh.

 

[Tom_Servo]

Here's a Minnesota case with judge's jury instruction regarding depraved mind as an example:

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...ases/27-CR-18-6859/JuryInstructions042919.pdf

Thats interesting but the pure definition of "evincing" doesn't line up with that jury instruction but maybe in Minnesota that's how it's defined? The "knowledge that someone may be killed" in that jury instruction needs to be proven. Did Chauvin know that he was killing George Floyd? I think not nor has the prosecution presented evidence of that. Regardless, if you use the raw definition of "evincing" or this jury instruction definition I haven't seen evidence proving either.

 

[Weki]

I wonder if Schleicher asked to end early? That seems the most likely reason because I can’t imagine judge would cut the state off on such an important witness (although this is debatable) for them. I wonder if Schleicher felt like like something was amiss with the witnesses testimony and he needed more prep.