Identified! UK - Studland shore Dorset, Fem, dental work, Dec'18 - Gilberte Andree Elisabeth Pincemin

[green deer]

Just some thoughts really.

Studland is quite a quiet rural-ish area, so if one was to dump a body, this would be the place to do it. There is easy access to the beach, unlike many other beaches in Dorset which have long walks along cliff tops etc.

There are many language students in Bournemouth, so there is a chance she could be one of these...

Also there are ferries from Poole to Cherbourg, France, so could be a person who jumped off one of these. There are fast strong currents in the area, so it is possible she washed up from this shipping route.....although I doubt it was all the way across the channel.

Regarding suicide, there are bus routes from Poole to Swanage that go past Studland, so a person without a car could have travelled here themselves.

France has many immigrants of north-African and Arabic origin, and if we knew she had dark hair and eyes, we could narrow it down. But it says 'unknown ethnicity' which doesn't help at all. Surely they could have a guess, Caucasian etc.?

Yes, I totally agree about the 'unknown ethnicity', I even considered trying to contact the coroner and asking for any more information that might be available, but I don't really know whether anything would come of this, or even if one can just contact the coroner and ask for details of a specific case. I just think surely since it states on the UK missing persons unit link that i included in my original post that the condition was stated as 'body' rather than 'remains', the surely they could glean from that the possible ethnicity?? Very Frustrating.

Thanks so much for that info though!! Definitely good to get some personal insight on the area.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

Yes, I totally agree about the 'unknown ethnicity', I even considered trying to contact the coroner and asking for any more information that might be available, but I don't really know whether anything would come of this, or even if one can just contact the coroner and ask for details of a specific case. I just think surely since it states on the UK missing persons unit link that i included in my original post that the condition was stated as 'body' rather than 'remains', the surely they could glean from that the possible ethnicity?? Very Frustrating.

Thanks so much for that info though!! Definitely good to get some personal insight on the area.

In one of the clothing pics you can see skeletal remains just at the top edge of the photo. It’s pretty grim, unwashed, everything still wet and dirty.

 

[green deer]

In one of the clothing pics you can see skeletal remains just at the top edge of the photo. It’s pretty grim, unwashed, everything still wet and dirty.

If you're talking about the bra pic with the things in the background, i'm actually not sure if that is skeletal remains/bone or if its some sea debris or seaweed, or even the white belt seen in another picture. I think the fact it says 'body' rather than 'remains' though, surely implies that there was more than just skeletal remains left? 'Body' seems to imply that she was at least still with most of her soft tissue, or surely they'd have recorded her as 'remains' rather than 'body'?

 

[Bethan]

I doubt this unfortunate lady went missing from the UK....this would have been ruled out very quickly.

Much more likely she drowned while attempting to seek asylum in the UK & unlikely to have been reported missing at all.

Sadly these small boats are frequently overcrowded & these people do not have life jackets.....drowning deaths are not uncommon.

Almost 300 asylum seekers have died trying to cross the Channel since 1999

How many people are crossing the Channel compared with previous years and which countries are they from?

More than 4,000 have crossed Channel to UK in small boats this year

 

[RenPoly]

Just some thoughts really.

Studland is quite a quiet rural-ish area, so if one was to dump a body, this would be the place to do it. There is easy access to the beach, unlike many other beaches in Dorset which have long walks along cliff tops etc.

Maybe...but it's not that accessible - at that time the ferry was operating and it'd take some chutzpah to drive onto the ferry to dispose of a body in a fairly popular spot for walkers, even off season, and quite a bit of sang froid to drive the long way around.

There are many language students in Bournemouth, so there is a chance she could be one of these...

Also there are ferries from Poole to Cherbourg, France, so could be a person who jumped off one of these. There are fast strong currents in the area, so it is possible she washed up from this shipping route.....although I doubt it was all the way across the channel.

You’re right about the currents. The tidal race through the Studland gap is vicious. Probably why the ferry is on a chain (when it's working).

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

I doubt this unfortunate lady went missing from the UK....this would have been ruled out very quickly.

Much more likely she drowned while attempting to seek asylum in the UK & unlikely to have been reported missing at all.

Sadly these small boats are frequently overcrowded & these people do not have life jackets.....drowning deaths are not uncommon.

Almost 300 asylum seekers have died trying to cross the Channel since 1999

How many people are crossing the Channel compared with previous years and which countries are they from?

More than 4,000 have crossed Channel to UK in small boats this year

I get the instinct to draw that conclusion - I looked at it myself - but she's wearing the clothes of a middle-class French person (or long-term resident in France). Unless she'd been a resident of France first I just don't see it.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

This may be helpful to anyone interested - the surface drift in the Bay of Biscay and the English Channel.

As you can see from the arrow on the right (Bay of Biscay), there is surface drift all the way up from Bayonne that would carry an object up to the north-west tip of France. Then in the English Channel, you can see surface currents from the tip of France carrying all the way into the Channel.

 

[Bethan]

I get the instinct to draw that conclusion - I looked at it myself - but she's wearing the clothes of a middle-class French person (or long-term resident in France). Unless she'd been a resident of France first I just don't see it.

Agree with your point about the clothes, however she may have been wearing donated items.

In 2018, here in the UK, I was involved in collecting donated ‘warm winter clothes’ for a charity specifically helping Syrian refugees. I took the donated items to a local church & once a month they were picked up & taken to be distributed in refugee camps in Calais.

I’d imagine there were similar humanitarian charities operating in France at the time.

The fact the individual was wearing leggings under a pair of jeans suggests she was dressed for warmth.

 

[green deer]

I doubt this unfortunate lady went missing from the UK....this would have been ruled out very quickly.

Much more likely she drowned while attempting to seek asylum in the UK & unlikely to have been reported missing at all.

Sadly these small boats are frequently overcrowded & these people do not have life jackets.....drowning deaths are not uncommon.

Almost 300 asylum seekers have died trying to cross the Channel since 1999

How many people are crossing the Channel compared with previous years and which countries are they from?

More than 4,000 have crossed Channel to UK in small boats this year

Yes agreed. In my mind, personally, I've narrowed it down to an asylum seeker/refugee, a french national, or someone who fell from a ferry.
The thing that i think is most telling is the research i did on her clothes and dentistry. Her knickers are by a predominantly french brand called DIM, and she does have silver dental work and a crown. -Which i doubt a refugee/asylum seeker would have.

I my heart of hearts i feel she is a french national

 

[green deer]

I get the instinct to draw that conclusion - I looked at it myself - but she's wearing the clothes of a middle-class French person (or long-term resident in France). Unless she'd been a resident of France first I just don't see it.

Totally agree, i really just have a feeling she is french national.

 

[green deer]

Agree with your point about the clothes, however she may have been wearing donated items.

In 2018, here in the UK, I was involved in collecting donated ‘warm winter clothes’ for a charity specifically helping Syrian refugees. I took the donated items to a local church & once a month they were picked up & taken to be distributed in refugee camps in Calais.

I’d imagine there were similar humanitarian charities operating in France at the time.

The fact the individual was wearing leggings under a pair of jeans suggests she was dressed for warmth.

That is a good point, donated clothes are defo a possibility. I feel these clothes are a bit more upmarket than the kind of clothes you'd generally find in donations. Nevertheless, i defo don't think this can be ruled out

 

[green deer]

https://www.facebook.com/page/133220436746115/search/?q=vanessa melet

Anyone who speaks french fluently (i can only about half read french so its very much not time efficient), these are the VANESSA MELET facebook posts on a french missing persons page. She is a person @ApparentlyInDenial suggested and right now i am doubtful this jane doe is her, judging by the disjointed info i can translate, -the clothing doesn't seem to match, as Vanessa was wearing a hooded jacket with fur around the edge. That said, there was a beige (if i recall correctly) jumper found near our woman that is unknown whether it was connected to her.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

Agree with your point about the clothes, however she may have been wearing donated items.

In 2018, here in the UK, I was involved in collecting donated ‘warm winter clothes’ for a charity specifically helping Syrian refugees. I took the donated items to a local church & once a month they were picked up & taken to be distributed in refugee camps in Calais.

I’d imagine there were similar humanitarian charities operating in France at the time.

The fact the individual was wearing leggings under a pair of jeans suggests she was dressed for warmth.

Totally take your point and I've already looked; there are no reported missing migrants for all of 2018 or 2017, according to https://missingmigrants.iom.int/.

Also cross-Channel migratory crossings only started to the end of November 2018 so it puts this UID slightly on the difficult end of the timeline. Also to note is the fillings; there's quite a high prevalence of silver-mercury amalgam fillings in France (and the UK) vs a lot of other countries, which does have some relevance.

It's worth keeping an eye out on this theory. For this UID and others. There is every chance that a Channel migrant will wash up on UK shores, sadly.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

I have a colleague who works for the German federal government's missing persons unit, and I learned from him that the rich European countries (UK included) are almost 100% successful at matching Jane/John Does found at sea or on shore with missing persons records in either their own or other European databases.

For a person to turn up this way and not be identified pretty quickly means they either haven't been reported missing (for various reasons) by any organisation or any European country. I find that disturbing; this woman could have moved to France 10 years ago for example, loses touch with friends and family, nobody even knows she's missing. It's a hard reality that that is the world we live in. Then there's the possible criminal factor, obviously.

 

[Susikatze]

She definitely came from France. Both, Cache Cache and GIM are brands commonly sold in France and not really available in the UK.

 

[green deer]

Totally take your point and I've already looked; there are no reported missing migrants for all of 2018 or 2017, according to https://missingmigrants.iom.int/.

Also cross-Channel migratory crossings only started to the end of November 2018 so it puts this UID slightly on the difficult end of the timeline. Also to note is the fillings; there's quite a high prevalence of silver-mercury amalgam fillings in France (and the UK) vs a lot of other countries, which does have some relevance.

It's worth keeping an eye out on this theory. For this UID and others. There is every chance that a Channel migrant will wash up on UK shores, sadly.

I wasn't aware of that missing migrants website, that's a fantastic resource. Thanks for bringing it to my attention! And yeah exactly, the fillings and clothes have pretty much solidified in my mind my theory on her being french.
I just wish they took DNA samples from all found deceased jane and john does remains. It would help immensely in so many ways

 

[green deer]

I have a colleague who works for the German federal government's missing persons unit, and I learned from him that the rich European countries (UK included) are almost 100% successful at matching Jane/John Does found at sea or on shore with missing persons records in either their own or other European databases.

For a person to turn up this way and not be identified pretty quickly means they either haven't been reported missing (for various reasons) by any organisation or any European country. I find that disturbing; this woman could have moved to France 10 years ago for example, loses touch with friends and family, nobody even knows she's missing. It's a hard reality that that is the world we live in. Then there's the possible criminal factor, obviously.

Yes exactly!! Thats what keeps me up at night! (Hence typing this as we speak at almost 2am). Just the fact all these john and jane does were people, they still matter, they're still someones child, neighbour, sibling.. Its such a painful thought that this woman (and obviously every unidentified deceased) has just been stripped of her whole identity, and at face value been reduced to nothing more than her physical remains and the clothes she was found in. Its the most heartbreakingly horrific thought, and why i feel so strongly about trying to find her identity (and as many others as i can). These people need to be known and remembered as the person they were, their name, their character, not just their physical remains. I think its really important to regain these peoples dignity on their behalf.

 

[Bethan]

I just wish they took DNA samples from all found deceased jane and john does remains. It would help immensely in so many ways

( Post respectfully snipped to respond to 2nd paragraph)

I’ve always assumed a DNA sample or samples are taken & kept for all unidentified remains, for future comparison, if a person is later reported missing.

Am I wrong to assume this?

Looking for an answer, I found this BBC article from 2016, where a spokesperson, Louise Vesely-Shore, from UK’s National Crime Agency (NCA) discusses unidentified bodies & in particular, those found on Britain’s coastlines.

England's unclaimed dead and the people trying to give them a name England's unclaimed dead and the people trying to give them a name

From the article...quote

The NCA “encourages" police and coroners to take samples, fingerprints and DNA, record dental information, and bury in a marked single grave, in case exhumation is needed in future.

In those cases in which the bodies have been cremated, she said, no DNA profile will ever be gleaned. And bodies buried in multiple graves make finding the "right" body "challenging".

Some of these cases, she warns, will now never be solved.

So it appears that at the time of writing ( 2016) it was not mandatory that DNA samples were being taken & kept.

I am surprised!

 

[Bethan]

Yes exactly!! Thats what keeps me up at night! (Hence typing this as we speak at almost 2am). Just the fact all these john and jane does were people, they still matter, they're still someones child, neighbour, sibling.. Its such a painful thought that this woman (and obviously every unidentified deceased) has just been stripped of her whole identity, and at face value been reduced to nothing more than her physical remains and the clothes she was found in. Its the most heartbreakingly horrific thought, and why i feel so strongly about trying to find her identity (and as many others as i can). These people need to be known and remembered as the person they were, their name, their character, not just their physical remains. I think its really important to regain these peoples dignity on their behalf.

Sorry....I meant to start by saying....I couldn’t agree more with your post green deer!

 

[green deer]

( Post respectfully snipped to respond to 2nd paragraph)

I’ve always assumed a DNA sample or samples are taken & kept for all unidentified remains, for future comparison, if a person is later reported missing.

Am I wrong to assume this?

Looking for an answer, I found this BBC article from 2016, where a spokesperson, Louise Vesely-Shore, from UK’s National Crime Agency (NCA) discusses unidentified bodies & in particular, those found on Britain’s coastlines.

England's unclaimed dead and the people trying to give them a name England's unclaimed dead and the people trying to give them a name

From the article...quote

The NCA “encourages" police and coroners to take samples, fingerprints and DNA, record dental information, and bury in a marked single grave, in case exhumation is needed in future.

In those cases in which the bodies have been cremated, she said, no DNA profile will ever be gleaned. And bodies buried in multiple graves make finding the "right" body "challenging".

Some of these cases, she warns, will now never be solved.

So it appears that at the time of writing ( 2016) it was not mandatory that DNA samples were being taken & kept.

I am surprised!

I wasn't 100% sure, my knowledge on which details are mandatory here in the UK to be taken by the coroner/forensics teams is not extensive.. but i did have my doubts since in at least this case there seems to be absolutely no DNA info or samples to be found ANYWHERE or even any clue they've been taken at all.
If you ask me, i think its insane that they don't ALWAYS take DNA samples from remains, surely it should just be a given??
So many things could be gleaned from it; ethnicity, so many physical characteristics, their definitive sex. It seems such a necessary massive piece of information