George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[margarita25]

Sadly, I can speak directly to this. My mother died when I was 4- of asthma. She had bruises on her face from how tightly she was holding onto her oxygen mask,, before she went comatose and died a few hours later. I know she was able to talk right before she left for the hospital because she told me she was going to get help so she could come home and take care of me. So I'll freely admit that this case has been a big trigger for me, and that I cannot find ANY excuses for Chauvin. JMO.

((()))

 

[margarita25]

Chauvin’s defense should invite him to kneel on his lawyer’s neck for nine minutes to prove that it couldn’t possibly kill someone.

(Omg just spit up all over my screen)

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Baker came across as nervous and flustered. He was bright red kept sipping water and making strange eye movements. Exactly as someone has described upthread ‘like a deer caught in the headlights’ I think he might have underestimated the outrage this case would cause at the time and didn’t consider that they might go ahead and fire D.C. and file charges. I think he was thinking that he was doing LE a favour helping them let this slide. I didn’t find his testimony convincing.

I found the other experts ‘opinions’ much more likely. Baker didnt want to do a u turn on his original report for obvious reasons, it would damage his credibility. But he also could have messed up along the way with this autopsy IMO. I don’t know, I felt like he had to be a witness because he performed the autopsy but he seemed reluctant to say too much and also I feel like the prosecutors didn’t really want his testimony heard as it could contradict their case. Which is why the direct examination was so short.

I think the other experts may have had a greater impact than Baker did. His research didn’t seem very clear or deep and I’m not sure really... just didn’t get a sense of genuine interest or desire to testify, and being that he was one of the key experts you’d expect a confidence in what he’s saying. All MOO of course

 

[missy1974]

I had eclampsia during the birth of my daughter. My BP was as high as this and I had grand mal seizures and beforehand, I felt extrememly unwell. I was extremely nausious and I lost vision. Walking around with such a high BP I would think he would have felt very unwell enough to seek medical care. That is JMO. I do not know if there are people who can function with such a high BP and not feel it.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Hope all is okay now!

Just to clarify, I don't think this was his regular BP, and I don't think we will see any evidence of that if he wasn't monitored on a regular basis.

That 216/162 reading was during very similar circumstances, he was in a vehicle, put pills in his mouth, taken out of vehicle and arrested, saying he couldn't breath.

 

[turaj]

Wondering about this "Spark of Life" testimony coming up with Floyd's brother being called to the stand by the state. I have some real mixed thoughts on this...I get they want to humanize the victim in this or any crime since they cannot speak for themselves. However jury should not be basing a verdict on emotion and "spark of life" is all about emotion. I don't think most states allow this?

 

[missy1974]

Sadly, I can speak directly to this. My mother died when I was 4- of asthma. She had bruises on her face from how tightly she was holding onto her oxygen mask,, before she went comatose and died a few hours later. I know she was able to talk right before she left for the hospital because she told me she was going to get help so she could come home and take care of me. So I'll freely admit that this case has been a big trigger for me, and that I cannot find ANY excuses for Chauvin. JMO.

I "liked" your post but felt weird to "like" this.

Sorry about your mom and thank you for sharing.

 

[GarAndTeed]

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...Cases/27-CR-20-12951-TKL/Exhibit107072020.pdf
Transcript of interview with Thomas Lane.
If this has already been posted, forgive me, and (mods) feel free to delete. The audio interview is up on YouTube, but I found it easier and quicker to read the transcript. (Side note- I had no idea that Lane was/is 6'7"!)

 

[GarAndTeed]

I "liked" your post but felt weird to "like" this.

Sorry about your mom and thank you for sharing.

Thank you, @margarita25, and everyone else for liking my post, and, most of all, for your kindness...

 

[Legally Bland]

Wondering about this "Spark of Life" testimony coming up with Floyd's brother being called to the stand by the state. I have some real mixed thoughts on this...I get they want to humanize the victim in this or any crime since they cannot speak for themselves. However jury should not be basing a verdict on emotion and "spark of life" is all about emotion. I don't think most states allow this?

I'm not sure about whether this should be allowed, but I can see how it could counter defense attempts to dehumanize the victim. I'm not sure dehumanizing makes juries fairer or less emotive. Only admitting bad character evidence is still emotive, just in a different way.

It's an interesting point and not something I've given much consideration to, so I reserve my right to change my mind tomorrow, or maybe later tonight.

 

[missy1974]

I'm not sure about whether this should be allowed, but I can see how it could counter defense attempts to dehumanize the victim. I'm not sure dehumanizing makes juries fairer or less emotive. Only admitting bad character evidence is still emotive, just in a different way.

It's an interesting point and not something I've given much consideration to, so I reserve my right to change my mind tomorrow, or maybe later tonight.

I'm with you. Not sure.

I was thinking, he wasn't there, so what could he testify about? But then ... his girlfriend wasn't there and she testified. So we will see how it goes.

 

[GarAndTeed]

Wondering about this "Spark of Life" testimony coming up with Floyd's brother being called to the stand by the state. I have some real mixed thoughts on this...I get they want to humanize the victim in this or any crime since they cannot speak for themselves. However jury should not be basing a verdict on emotion and "spark of life" is all about emotion. I don't think most states allow this?

I haven't been able to carefully comb through all the terminology in this case, so could you (or anyone) please give me a quick definition of "Spark of Life"? Thanks!

 

[Jax49]

I haven't been able to carefully comb through all the terminology in this case, so could you (or anyone) please give me a quick definition of "Spark of Life"? Thanks!

'Spark of life': Jury to hear from George Floyd's brother in quirk of Minnesota law | Duluth News Tribune

'Spark of life' testimony is part of a limited type of evidence allowed in criminal trials in Minnesota meant to show that a crime victim was not a faceless person but was "imbued with the spark of life,"

Defense lawyers and some legal experts have long argued that there is good reason why Minnesota is unique among both U.S. states and the federal courts system in allowing testimony that has no bearing on whether a defendant is guilty. In most states, such accounts from a victim's loved ones are usually heard only after a conviction, during a sentencing hearing.

 

[turaj]

local newspaper says..."show the victim as a living person, not merely a faceless victim. Generally, one witness and one photograph of the usually smiling victim are allowed." I am very familiar with these kind of witnesses in the sentencing phase but not sure I have seen it in the case in chief.

 

[GarAndTeed]

'Spark of life': Jury to hear from George Floyd's brother in quirk of Minnesota law | Duluth News Tribune

Interesting- thank you!

 

[GarAndTeed]

local newspaper says..."show the victim as a living person, not merely a faceless victim. Generally, one witness and one photograph of the usually smiling victim are allowed." I am very familiar with these kind of witnesses in the sentencing phase but not sure I have seen it in the case in chief.

Thanks a lot! I'm not in MN, but I took 2 years of law classes, and never heard this term.

 

[turaj]

i have watched my share of trials and had never heard this term. Clearly the state got some of this type of testimony in with Ross ...the girlfriend....not so sure about relatives getting up but it is going to happen. I guess the only way the defense gets this opportunity is if their guy gets up and tells his story. I don't expect that to happen.

 

[GarAndTeed]

i have watched my share of trials and had never heard this term.

Thanks @turaj! I don't feel quite as dense now!

 

[kittythehare]

i have watched my share of trials and had never heard this term. Clearly the state got some of this type of testimony in with Ross ...the girlfriend....not so sure about relatives getting up but it is going to happen. I guess the only way the defense gets this opportunity is if their guy gets up and tells his story. I don't expect that to happen.

I am getting an increasingly strong feeling it may well happen.

 

[turaj]

I am getting an increasingly strong feeling it may well happen.

Honestly he is the only one that can explain what was going thru his head...the impact of the "crowd" and his understanding of the hold and was it an approved move in his mind. I think hearing him describe it may well be the only thing that will keep it at manslaughter. We still have to hear the defense case and maybe some surprises. While at this point he seems extremely cold and hard to erase that look on his face in the video..we really don't have a clue what he might be like outside of police work.

 

[kittythehare]

Honestly he is the only one that can explain what was going thru his head...the impact of the "crowd" and his understanding of the hold and was it an approved move in his mind. I think hearing him describe it may well be the only thing that will keep it at manslaughter. We still have to hear the defense case and maybe some surprises. While at this point he seems extremely cold and hard to erase that look on his face in the video..we really don't have a clue what he might be like outside of police work.

He's well outside police work now and mask notwithstanding, it's hard to cry tears while writing furiously constantly..
Or maybe it's not now that I think about it..
I think he has to take the stand.
The prosecution witnesses are a hard act to follow, each and every one of them.
I wish it was over.
And I'm half sorry I ever started watching it 'cos it brings me to a false sense of justice being equal to punishment, if that is what ensues here, a fake triumph that in the long run will change nothing at all.

(The world is too full of bullies.
And the rape of innocence gets worse every day of every year. Cruelty is the game in every walk of life .)