Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #6 *both parents arrested/charged*

[musemoon]

As it stands now, these parents could still be eligible to foster and adopt more children.

They have not been charged with any crimes.

Terrible tragedy that two siblings in their care disappeared.

I'm pretty sure with their own children in custody and their adoptive children in custody no adoption agency would ever let them adopt again. The only way that could happen is IF they are deemed completely innocent. But even losing two children on their watch would be a red flag. I guess the only scenario that would possibly allow them to adopt again is IF Orrin and Orsen were truly abducted from their home and were found alive, then maybe they could adopt again, but very unlikely. I am adopting now through foster care and one of my children is in a mental health facility for treatment and they are putting our placement on pause and that's us getting my kiddo care...I'm a fantastic mother and they aren't placing us with a child right now. So imagine if I'd let my kids get lost, kidnapped or murdered...no county in California would ever certify them again and they'd never put children in their home, there is absolutely no way.

 

[nyvictoria]

I'm pretty sure with their own children in custody and their adoptive children in custody no adoption agency would ever let them adopt again. The only way that could happen is IF they are deemed completely innocent. But even losing two children on their watch would be a red flag. I guess the only scenario that would possibly allow them to adopt again is IF Orrin and Orsen were truly abducted from their home and were found alive, then maybe they could adopt again, but very unlikely. I am adopting now through foster care and one of my children is in a mental health facility for treatment and they are putting our placement on pause and that's us getting my kiddo care...I'm a fantastic mother and they aren't placing us with a child right now. So imagine if I'd let my kids get lost, kidnapped or murdered...no county in California would ever certify them again and they'd never put children in their home, there is absolutely no way.

Kudos to you for adopting a child in foster care!

I hope the other children are never returned to this family. I don’t believe Orsin and Orrin were kidnapped. If the boys wandered away (IMO they didn’t), they can’t be trusted with any other children.

 

[MoeInVA]

I hope that there is a CPS case putting pressure on people behind the scenes. IMO it seems like the biggest leverage point might be resolving the situation for the remaining children. Hopefully they will be ready to ratchet up the pressure soon if not already.

I am worried that there is nothing stopping the responsible parties from escaping the country before they are charged.

Anyone have a theory about what’s on the 911 call? Police refuse to release it even though they have released 911 calls in other cases.

One theory is that they do not have a recording but don’t want to admit that to the persons of interest.

If there is a recording, I am dying to know what is on it that is so prejudicial or inflammatory that they refuse to release it.

Maybe the caller sounds unconcerned? (Would be fitting with the fact that JW was not seen searching at all outside the house)

Maybe the caller sounds drunk or drugged?

Maybe the caller has since changed their story?

Thoughts?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Do they usually release 911 calls while still investigating? (Honestly asking.)

 

[MoeInVA]

Do they usually release 911 calls while still investigating? (Honestly asking.)

I think it varies by jurisdiction or state. Reporter Perla Shaheen said she has received them before during the investigation but Cal City Chief still refused to budge.

ETA: JMO - if the call was a NON issue, I think the Cal City chief would have released it... just to “feed the beast” (keep the media and public hunger for info satisfied without harming the case). He didn’t release it on the basis that releasing it could interfere with the case somehow.

 

[Spartygirl]

Do they usually release 911 calls while still investigating? (Honestly asking.)

Some do and some don't !!
I know we have heard quite a few 911 calls while LE are still investigating yet there have been many that we will only hear once there is a trial and even then, we aren't always privy to the call.

 

[anniejanet]

I hope that there is a CPS case putting pressure on people behind the scenes. IMO it seems like the biggest leverage point might be resolving the situation for the remaining children. Hopefully they will be ready to ratchet up the pressure soon if not already.

I am worried that there is nothing stopping the responsible parties from escaping the country before they are charged.

Anyone have a theory about what’s on the 911 call? Police refuse to release it even though they have released 911 calls in other cases.

One theory is that they do not have a recording but don’t want to admit that to the persons of interest.

If there is a recording, I am dying to know what is on it that is so prejudicial or inflammatory that they refuse to release it.

Maybe the caller sounds unconcerned? (Would be fitting with the fact that JW was not seen searching at all outside the house)

Maybe the caller sounds drunk or drugged?

Maybe the caller has since changed their story?

Thoughts?

Possibly there are more details about what the caller saw? They don't want these to get out? Dunno.

Hope they figure this out sooner rather than later.

 

[Beans]

I think they have a tough job to do with this one and it will involve many months of data, footage, movements. I just hope they get what they need in the end. I think a minimum of two people know exactly what happened but several more will have information that could assist in some way. Whether or not they choose to give up that information is probably dependent on a pretty complex set of considerations.

I believe the answers are in Bakersfield.

 

[Knox]

Very quiet right now, hoping this means progress is being made!

 

[Ontario Mom]

Very quiet right now, hoping this means progress is being made!

I sure hope you're right.

 

[Limecat]

Very quiet right now, hoping this means progress is being made!

That’s what I keep telling myself, too, Knox. The deep breath before the plunge...

 

[JC40]

I hope that there is a CPS case putting pressure on people behind the scenes. IMO it seems like the biggest leverage point might be resolving the situation for the remaining children. Hopefully they will be ready to ratchet up the pressure soon if not already.

I am worried that there is nothing stopping the responsible parties from escaping the country before they are charged.

Anyone have a theory about what’s on the 911 call? Police refuse to release it even though they have released 911 calls in other cases.

One theory is that they do not have a recording but don’t want to admit that to the persons of interest.

If there is a recording, I am dying to know what is on it that is so prejudicial or inflammatory that they refuse to release it.

Maybe the caller sounds unconcerned? (Would be fitting with the fact that JW was not seen searching at all outside the house)

Maybe the caller sounds drunk or drugged?

Maybe the caller has since changed their story?

Thoughts?

Introduction: In research of 911 calls, Statement Analysis recognizes patterns of speech within the context of the emergency that prompted the call. This is to highlight ‘the allegation’ or emergency stated’ (alleging here that one is missing) and the expected language that will be employed to facilitate the flow of information to find the victim and bring positive resolution to the call.

There is, according to the reason for the call, an expectation of wording. For example, when a person is missing, it is expected that the call is urgent and concern will be expressed for the missing person. The caller cares not for himself, or how he may appear, because his sole focus is finding the missing person.

There is also wording that is “unexpected”, and statistically, 'red flagged' for the possible conclusion that the caller has guilty knowledge of the crime. These are often elements of sense.


1. Emergency 911 calls that begin with a greeting are flagged. In an emergency, the caller is expected to go right to what is on his mind. Calls that begin with “hello” or “hi” are more associated with guilty knowledge than with innocence, statistically, and the obvious psychological element is the urgency of the call precludes any greeting. Greetings are polite, and can even be an attempt to ingratiate oneself to law enforcement, to sound 'cooperative.' This need to sound cooperative, itself, is concerning.
2. Expression of Emotions. Callers are upset in emergencies and do not need to identify their emotions. Those who have a need to proclaim what emotions they are experiencing may be doing so artificially.
3. Ask for help for the victim, and not for self. Guilty callers sometimes ask for help for themselves, revealing an understanding that it is they, themselves, in need of help.
4. The words “I’m sorry” statistically are found in callers with guilty knowledge, for whatever reason.
5. Order indicates priority. We expect to hear the order reflect the priority of the victim’s life, not the concern over the caller’s state, condition, or life. \
6. Overly polite callers. In an emergency, not only do we not expect a greeting, but we do expect an urgency that is reflected in the language. Conversely, we note any attempts on the part of the caller to ‘sound cooperative’ or ‘appear to be on friendly terms’ with law enforcement, as represented by the 911 operator.
7. We expect a complete social introduction of the victim, and the caller to not distance himself, for example, from the victim.
8. We do not expect to hear any victim blaming, even in a subtle manner.
9. We do not expect any question to remain unanswered or diverted.
10. We do expect the overall scope of the call to be about the missing their well being, what they may be experiencing, and not about the caller, himself.
11. We expect the innocent caller to highlight where they were last together, as a most important and even treasured moment, using the pronoun “we” to describe it, with stark clarity due to the intense emotions of fear of what happened.
The analysis is completed for this purpose: to learn if the caller is an “innocent caller” who has made this phone call to police to help locate the missing victim;
or, if the caller has guilty knowledge of what has happened to the victim, and is working, not to find the victim, but to benefit himself by portraying himself in a positive light, and even the possibility of suggesting ‘other’ suspects for police to investigate.

 

[Dre]

Introduction: In research of 911 calls, Statement Analysis recognizes patterns of speech within the context of the emergency that prompted the call. This is to highlight ‘the allegation’ or emergency stated’ (alleging here that one is missing) and the expected language that will be employed to facilitate the flow of information to find the victim and bring positive resolution to the call.

There is, according to the reason for the call, an expectation of wording. For example, when a person is missing, it is expected that the call is urgent and concern will be expressed for the missing person. The caller cares not for himself, or how he may appear, because his sole focus is finding the missing person.

There is also wording that is “unexpected”, and statistically, 'red flagged' for the possible conclusion that the caller has guilty knowledge of the crime. These are often elements of sense.


1. Emergency 911 calls that begin with a greeting are flagged. In an emergency, the caller is expected to go right to what is on his mind. Calls that begin with “hello” or “hi” are more associated with guilty knowledge than with innocence, statistically, and the obvious psychological element is the urgency of the call precludes any greeting. Greetings are polite, and can even be an attempt to ingratiate oneself to law enforcement, to sound 'cooperative.' This need to sound cooperative, itself, is concerning.
2. Expression of Emotions. Callers are upset in emergencies and do not need to identify their emotions. Those who have a need to proclaim what emotions they are experiencing may be doing so artificially.
3. Ask for help for the victim, and not for self. Guilty callers sometimes ask for help for themselves, revealing an understanding that it is they, themselves, in need of help.
4. The words “I’m sorry” statistically are found in callers with guilty knowledge, for whatever reason.
5. Order indicates priority. We expect to hear the order reflect the priority of the victim’s life, not the concern over the caller’s state, condition, or life. \
6. Overly polite callers. In an emergency, not only do we not expect a greeting, but we do expect an urgency that is reflected in the language. Conversely, we note any attempts on the part of the caller to ‘sound cooperative’ or ‘appear to be on friendly terms’ with law enforcement, as represented by the 911 operator.
7. We expect a complete social introduction of the victim, and the caller to not distance himself, for example, from the victim.
8. We do not expect to hear any victim blaming, even in a subtle manner.
9. We do not expect any question to remain unanswered or diverted.
10. We do expect the overall scope of the call to be about the missing their well being, what they may be experiencing, and not about the caller, himself.
11. We expect the innocent caller to highlight where they were last together, as a most important and even treasured moment, using the pronoun “we” to describe it, with stark clarity due to the intense emotions of fear of what happened.
The analysis is completed for this purpose: to learn if the caller is an “innocent caller” who has made this phone call to police to help locate the missing victim;
or, if the caller has guilty knowledge of what has happened to the victim, and is working, not to find the victim, but to benefit himself by portraying himself in a positive light, and even the possibility of suggesting ‘other’ suspects for police to investigate.

Fascinating!
I must admit, I think I would make a number of “mistakes” deemed flaggable for the sheer fact of hating talking on the phone.
I know I would at least start with “hi, yes, um, I need...” and then a
“Sorry I’m crying I’m just really flustered right now” etc
If I knew it was a data collecting robot on the other side I would likely not do the same. Jmo!

 

[Knox]

That’s what I keep telling myself, too, Knox. The deep breath before the plunge...

Real life is busy so I haven't been on much. I sort of hold my breath when I log on hoping to see an arrest in this case. I'm sad for Orrin and Orson, their beautiful little faces ... they deserved so much better than they received. All the kids whose stories end up here, for that matter.

 

[Chocoholic]

I'm pretty sure with their own children in custody and their adoptive children in custody no adoption agency would ever let them adopt again. The only way that could happen is IF they are deemed completely innocent. But even losing two children on their watch would be a red flag. I guess the only scenario that would possibly allow them to adopt again is IF Orrin and Orsen were truly abducted from their home and were found alive, then maybe they could adopt again, but very unlikely. I am adopting now through foster care and one of my children is in a mental health facility for treatment and they are putting our placement on pause and that's us getting my kiddo care...I'm a fantastic mother and they aren't placing us with a child right now. So imagine if I'd let my kids get lost, kidnapped or murdered...no county in California would ever certify them again and they'd never put children in their home, there is absolutely no way.

You are clearly a fantastic parent! I always enjoy your input here, especially with your experience. Your children are very lucky and I’m sure that was a hard choice. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with being put on pause. I’ll say a prayer that everything works out for you! Any child would be lucky to have you.

 

[musemoon]

You are clearly a fantastic parent! I always enjoy your input here, especially with your experience. Your children are very lucky and I’m sure that was a hard choice. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with being put on pause. I’ll say a prayer that everything works out for you! Any child would be lucky to have you.

Ah thank you so much, that is such a beautiful thing to say. As I've said before these kiddos have special needs and trauma, my baby just needed extra medical help to handle her mental illness and the trauma she experienced when my mom was murdered. (My mom was a foster parent, murdered by a birth parent of one of her foster kids...and we are all struggling with her loss) but we should be back on track next month, just waiting for reports from my daughter's therapist regarding her progress. That being said, I know that DCFS is very cautious about placing children in homes right now...so doubtful the Wests will ever be getting any more children.

I hope they find these little boys. It would be a blessing if they were alive and well....I pray for that, but I know it's probably not the case.

 

[Chocoholic]

Ah thank you so much, that is such a beautiful thing to say. As I've said before these kiddos have special needs and trauma, my baby just needed extra medical help to handle her mental illness and the trauma she experienced when my mom was murdered. (My mom was a foster parent, murdered by a birth parent of one of her foster kids...and we are all struggling with her loss) but we should be back on track next month, just waiting for reports from my daughter's therapist regarding her progress. That being said, I know that DCFS is very cautious about placing children in homes right now...so doubtful the Wests will ever be getting any more children.

I hope they find these little boys. It would be a blessing if they were alive and well....I pray for that, but I know it's probably not the case.

You’re quite welcome! I’m so sorry to hear about your mom. With all you have going on I now appreciate you more for taking the time and caring about these sweet boys! If only they had been so lucky to be in your care we wouldn’t be here.

I check daily for updates. Hopefully the calm before the storm....

 

[MsBetsy]

Do they usually release 911 calls while still investigating? (Honestly asking.)

I don't think LE can release 911 calls to the public without permission from the caller, as they are considered confidential. Imo

 

[Number8]

Ah thank you so much, that is such a beautiful thing to say. As I've said before these kiddos have special needs and trauma, my baby just needed extra medical help to handle her mental illness and the trauma she experienced when my mom was murdered. (My mom was a foster parent, murdered by a birth parent of one of her foster kids...and we are all struggling with her loss) but we should be back on track next month, just waiting for reports from my daughter's therapist regarding her progress. That being said, I know that DCFS is very cautious about placing children in homes right now...so doubtful the Wests will ever be getting any more children.

I hope they find these little boys. It would be a blessing if they were alive and well....I pray for that, but I know it's probably not the case.

I’m so very sorry for your loss. Wishing you and your child a safe and healthy recovery. This too shall pass...

 

[Girl73]

Almost 4 months. Actually, probably much longer. Will they ever be found? Will justice ever be served?