George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

[Wild Rose]

IMO, the few times that I was focusing on one thing is in a catastrophic event. Something like a multi victim triage scene or a huge catastrophic event that is overwelming like an explosion where the event has multiple scenes that you cannot even visualize. IMO, the pleadings are primarily sounding all the same on this case, so it seems weird that he didn't stop what they articulating directly to him.

 

[missy1974]

I actually hadn’t seen this. I missed the first several days of testimony (I’m going back and watching now).

This was emotional. I found her testimony to be more compelling than most. She was vulnerable and seemed very sincere.

This also gives credence to some of the things I’ve suspected and given my opinion on. It really makes me question things more.

Ohhh she is a must watch! I think she was one of the best State witnesses. She talked about the struggle they both had with drugs, without sugar coating it and was very honest IMO

I could feel the love she had for him. Her story of how they met is very touching. I hope that she has had support through all of this. JMO

 

[Gibbo214]

Yes, people tend to do that. I didn't say the firefighter was right or wrong for calling the officers names. As stated, I do understand why they didn't allow her to help though.

You may understand that, but I do not. Can you explain why you understand why they didnt allow her to help?

 

[branmuffin]

It shouldn't matter if prior felons often behave in an agitated manner, claiming all sorts of ailments. Any suspect that complains of an injury during an arrest has a right to medical attention.

The procedure is to call for an ambulance when this happens. They did call, but all they reported was an "injury to the mouth." They never mentioned anything about his breathing problems or the fact that he had recently had covid. Not being able to breathe is more serious than an injury to the mouth because it is life threatening. If they had given paramedics accurate information, they may have been better prepared. Meanwhile there is no reason they could not have started CPR before the ambulance got there. Imo

If I had been driving by this incident, seeing three police officers physically restraining someone on the ground with knees on his back and neck, the last thing I'd think the person was being detained for would be passing a fake 20 dollar bill that they may not have even been aware of. I'd be thinking an armed robbery or another type of violent crime against a person had just occurred. The escalation is just mind blowing to me.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, people tend to do that. I didn't say the firefighter was right or wrong for calling the officers names. As stated, I do understand why they didn't allow her to help though.

Yes, I can see why too. But likely not for the same reason that you do.

I think that Chauvin thought that big, strong men like George can take anything that is dished out. But surprise, surprise, they can't.

Not when they are in a prone position, their hands are locked behind their back, their own weight is pushing down on their lungs, they are being held down, others weight is pushing down on their lungs, and someone is kneeling on their neck.

I don't think Chauvin thought that George would die, but George did die. And now Chauvin has to face the consequences for his wrong decisions.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

You may understand that, but I do not. Can you explain why you understand why they didnt allow her to help?

She was hostile. MOO

 

[kittythehare]

But if Chauvin did not realize Floyd was not breathing or did not have a pulse, how is asking, "did you check his pulse," or "does he have a pulse," a distraction? Especially if he did not hear the other officer tell him Floyd was not breathing or had passed out?

This.
Any trained medic I know would have been in there.. it's our training, it's our instinct- to save a life.
And that is such a primal urge that everything else pales into insignificance.
The thing is, Chauvin was trained in life saving techniques too.
For me, that really is the final nail in his coffin.
He was trained to know when he'd gone too far.
The most basic of first aid education would have educated him
ABC
Airway
Breathing
Circulation

Being in such close proximity to a dying person shows you what process they are undergoing physiologically.

When a person is breathing, when they are allowed to breathe, the chest rises and falls.
When the heart is beating pulses can be felt at several locations on the person's body.
When the circulation stops the body goes cold, it can be felt along with other processes, the like of which Dr Tobin outlined.

So, yes, screaming is appropriate if you watch somebody killing another person, it's not only appropriate it is morally and ethically the right thing to do. Trained or not.

 

[mom2chloe]

Are you sure that Chauvin received all training available to police officers?


Derek Chauvin trial: Expert says cop was justified in pinning down George Floyd

I’ve asked before and still wonder was DC trained otherwise in military training? Maybe there’s a good reason the Defense didn’t suggest this but it still remains a possibility to me. He was a veteran after all and I’m not even sure if we are privy to what military teaches and trains people to do. IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I’ve asked before and still wonder was DC trained otherwise in military training? Maybe there’s a good reason the Defense didn’t suggest this but it still remains a possibility to me. He was a veteran after all and I’m not even sure if we are privy to what military teaches and trains people to do. IMO

I posted recently about training Chauvin has received during the prior 4 years. One course (crisis intervention) was 40 hours long in 2016, the other was devised by a use of force instructor and he did the course in 2018. He has been trained in recent updated procedures.

Both of the instructors testified at the trial.

Here is the link to the post.
George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

 

[MadMcGoo]

But if Chauvin did not realize Floyd was not breathing or did not have a pulse, how is asking, "did you check his pulse," or "does he have a pulse," a distraction? Especially if he did not hear the other officer tell him Floyd was not breathing or had passed out?

If the only thing being presented at the time was “did you check his pulse”, then nothing is a distraction. But I see, and hear, SO many other things going on. That’s just from our point of view.

 

[magnolia]

No, I was not called by name. No one knew if I or the other two said what they were.

It's a little different for police officers that constantly have to watch their back. IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

If I had been driving by this incidence seeing three police officers physically restraining someone on the ground with knees on his back and neck the last thing I'd think the person was being detained for would be a fake 20 dollar bill that they may not have even been aware of. I'd be thinking an armed robbery or another type of violent crime against a person had just occurred. The escalation is just mind blowing to me.

Yes, I was very surprised the call was over a fake bill. When I first saw the video I hadn't seen any news and had not heard the name George Floyd yet. I thought he must have gone crazy shooting at people or had pulled a gun on police from the way they were treating him.

 

[Wild Rose]

Once in a class, the instructor said to us as an example, not everybody is going to pull over to help you, so in life, take really good care of the people that do. So this firefighter getting agitated is one of these people. Those are the people we take care of. IMO I guarantee that if she saw you laying on the sidewalk saying incoherent things, she would not assume you are drunk, she would worry about you as maybe having a diabetic reaction that could kill you. And help you. Even if you were drunk.

 

[mom2chloe]

Are first responders not supposed to treat people who might have covid?

First responders yes. Cops? Maybe not? This gives question to whether LE and first responders of any sort were operating under a Covid safe scenario? We don’t know that either but IMO it matters. Greatly!

 

[branmuffin]

Yes, I can see why too. But likely not for the same reason that you do.

I think that Chauvin thought that big, strong men like George can take anything that is dished out. But surprise, surprise, they can't.

Not when they are in a prone position, their hands are locked behind their back, their own weight is pushing down on their lungs, they are being held down, others weight is pushing down on their lungs, and someone is kneeling on their neck.

I don't think Chauvin thought that George would die, but George did die. And now Chauvin has to face the consequences for his wrong decisions.

I didn't get to see every bit of the testimony. Did anyone ever mention that there was a history between DC and GF when they were working security at a nightclub? I have read several articles where the owner of the club said the DC didn't like GF. She said DC always escalated a situation in the club pulling out his mace whereas GF was more easy going. It made me wonder whether there was some spite and pay back involved in the takedown.

 

[kittythehare]

Once in a class, the instructor said to us as an example, not everybody is going to pull over to help you, so in life, take really good care of the people that do. So this firefighter getting agitated is one of these people. Those are the people we take care of. IMO I guarantee that if she saw you laying on the sidewalk saying incoherent things, she would not assume you are drunk, she would worry about you as maybe having a diabetic reaction that could kill you. And help you. Even if you were drunk.

Truth.
And she wouldn't be checking your criminal records out first, either.
Or your social status, legal status or any other status.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

You may understand that, but I do not. Can you explain why you understand why they didnt allow her to help?

LE was responsible for GF and they were arresting him. LE can't let someone off the street who "says" they are a firefighter have access to him. For her protection and his.

I realize LE wasn't helping him, but hopefully my point is clear.

 

[SouthAussie]

First responders yes. Cops? Maybe not? This gives question to whether LE and first responders of any sort were operating under a Covid safe scenario? We don’t know that either but IMO it matters. Greatly!

I can't see how it matters. If George had been rolled on his side, as per procedure, he would be alive today. No mouth to mouth required.

There is no getting past the fact that Chauvin did not follow procedure. imo

He was trained. He knew what he should do. Lane reminded him twice. This will always be the sticking point no matter which way this situation is looked at.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I have a question and I don’t expect anyone to answer. I’m curious though. Has anyone here worked in LE? In any capacity?

 

[MsBetsy]

If the only thing being presented at the time was “did you check his pulse”, then nothing is a distraction. But I see, and hear, SO many other things going on. That’s just from our point of view.

There were at least two people saying, "check his pulse, he's not breathing, he's not moving, he's not responsive right now," for about three or four minutes. The other four or five people weren't saying much at all. There were not many cars going by and there was a fifth police officer across the street. What were the other distractions?