George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

[Wild Rose]

He never pleaded guilty because he felt guilt. He did so because it came with a light sentence. I’d do the same. Regardless of what I felt, I’d know for sure the people were out to hang me. JMO

Being very respectful here truly. tara83 was wondering what DC was thinking got me wondering what GF was thinking. He must have felt like DC was out to hang him. A constricted neck plus body weight. How awful.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Did he say he wanted to plead guilty for a lighter sentence and not because he felt guilty or is that your opinion of why he wanted to plead guilty? Looking for clarification of what DC actually said, no offense.

No offense taken. From what I’ve seen, he felt guilt. But that’s not why he plead in my opinion. If I were him, I’d know immediately people would hang me out to dry. I’d also want to take the best deal I could. Which, in this case, he did well with. A max charge with a minimum sentence.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Innocent People Who Plead Guilty

We all know that innocent people can be found guilty of crimes they didn’t commit, but innocent people might actually choose to plead guilty simply because they’re afraid to go to trial. The fear is based on a simple fact — people who go to trial and are convicted get much heavier sentences than those who plea-bargain.

Innocent People Who Plead Guilty

This said it best.

 

[wasnt_me]

Being very respectful here truly. tara83 was wondering what DC was thinking got me wondering what GF was thinking. He must have felt like DC was out to hang him. A constricted neck plus body weight. How awful.

Yeah, I think we know what GF was thinking. He said it. "They gonna kill me....I'm dead....I'm gone..."

I think those were his words, correct?

 

[wasnt_me]

This said it best.

We don't know if DC is innocent and probably never will.

However, I do understand your point of taking the best sentence or deal considering one's options, regardless of being guilty, innocent or somewhere in between.

 

[MsBetsy]

The problem for me was he was acting like that before they tried to put him in the car or he was on the ground.

To me it looks more how a drunk or high person acts then an anxiety or panic attack. Yelling out and crying ECT..

When a person says they can't breathe it should always be considered a potential medical emergency. It doesn't matter if a police officer, firefighter, or healthcare worker "thinks" they are faking. What's the harm in rushing them to the hospital only to find it's a panic attack? Either one should be treated. We have a right to medical and mental health treatment.

We have a right to be free from the use of excessive force. No-one should have to beg and plead for their life, only to be mocked or ignored.

 

[MadMcGoo]

We don't know if DC is innocent and probably never will.

However, I do understand your point of taking the best sentence or deal considering one's options, regardless of being guilty, innocent or somewhere in between.

We won’t ever know. You’re right.

Maybe that’s why this case is so hard on me. I’ve literally been in DC’s shoes. I’ve made a TON of mistakes. None fatal, luckily. I had bad days and good days.... and made mistakes on both. I’m human. I can’t even imagine having to answer to something like this. I know that GF didn’t have to die that day. I know that. I also know that DC never meant for that to happen. I believe he would have done anything to avoid that.

I keep trying to explain what it might have been like during that day, but even I don’t really know that. His training taught him better, his experience taught him better... so why? WHY?

 

[Gibbo214]

When a person says they can't breathe it should always be considered a potential medical emergency. It doesn't matter if a police officer, firefighter, or healthcare worker "thinks" they are faking. They should always be taken seriously. What's the harm in rushing them to the hospital only to find it's a panic attack? Either one should be treated. We have a right to medical and mental health treatment.

We have a right to be free from the use of excessive force. No-one should have to beg and plead for their life, only to be mocked or ignored.

Breathing difficulties along with chest pain should never be ignored.

 

[tara83]

When a person says they can't breathe it should always be considered a potential medical emergency. It doesn't matter if a police officer, firefighter, or healthcare worker "thinks" they are faking. They should always be taken seriously. What's the harm in rushing them to the hospital only to find it's a panic attack? Either one should be treated. We have a right to medical and mental health treatment.

We have a right to be free from the use of excessive force. No-one should have to beg and plead for their life, only to be mocked or ignored.

Exactly.My brother is a police officer and has told me many times in making arrests some have complained of health issues and he always gets them prompt medical care.Sometimes they have been real and sometimes they have been fake but he has said he will never take a chance on someone losing their life.

 

[Gibbo214]

We won’t ever know. You’re right.

Maybe that’s why this case is so hard on me. I’ve literally been in DC’s shoes. I’ve made a TON of mistakes. None fatal, luckily. I had bad days and good days.... and made mistakes on both. I’m human. I can’t even imagine having to answer to something like this. I know that GF didn’t have to die that day. I know that. I also know that DC never meant for that to happen. I believe he would have done anything to avoid that.

I keep trying to explain what it might have been like during that day, but even I don’t really know that. His training taught him better, his experience taught him better... so why? WHY?

BBM. I have to disagree with you about that. He had plenty of options to do anything to avoid that. He took none of them. I believe that his ego would not allow him to be bettered by a small crowd or his juniors.

 

[wasnt_me]

We won’t ever know. You’re right.

Maybe that’s why this case is so hard on me. I’ve literally been in DC’s shoes. I’ve made a TON of mistakes. None fatal, luckily. I had bad days and good days.... and made mistakes on both. I’m human. I can’t even imagine having to answer to something like this. I know that GF didn’t have to die that day. I know that. I also know that DC never meant for that to happen. I believe he would have done anything to avoid that.

I keep trying to explain what it might have been like during that day, but even I don’t really know that. His training taught him better, his experience taught him better... so why? WHY?

I completely understand your feelings. I feel the same way, but I wouldn't keep my knee on someone's neck and refuse them help for 9 minutes. You probably wouldn't either, I'm guessing.

I feel sorry for all these officers, but GF is dead. If they could have prevented it, but they didn't, they have to answer for that. It's just like if you make a mistake driving and wind up killing someone. It's still manslaughter whether you meant it or not. I think we have to take our personal feelings out of it and only look at the facts.

ETA -- If feel the sorriest for TL and AJK, but hey, they should have gotten DC off of GF and they should have administered aid. It's their job.

 

[MadMcGoo]

BBM. I have to disagree with you about that. He had plenty of options to do anything to avoid that. He took none of them. I believe that his ego would not allow him to be bettered by a small crowd or his juniors.

agree to disagree.

 

[Gibbo214]

Exactly.My brother is a police officer and has told me many times in making arrests some have complained of health issues and he always gets them prompt medical care.Sometimes they have been real and sometimes they have been fake but he has said he will never take a chance on someone losing their life.

Yes, and as a nurse, I would never make a judgment that someone was faking. Get the doctor in there. I worked in a smallish city which did not have doctors on the floors. We had to ring them. I was often abused by doctors who thought that I had got them there for a faker, but I continued to do it. I was not paid enough to diagnose.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I completely understand your feelings. I feel the same way, but I wouldn't keep my knee on someone's neck and refuse them help for 9 minutes. You probably wouldn't either, I'm guessing.

I feel sorry for all these officers, but GF is dead. If they could have prevented it, but they didn't, they have to answer for that. It's just like if you make a mistake driving and wind up killing someone. It's still manslaughter whether you meant it or not. I think we have to take our personal feelings out of it and only look at the facts.

I would never do what he did. That’s what I say. That’s what I hope I’d live up to.

But yes, he shouldn’t be given a pass because he had a bad day, or whatever his defense is (I still don’t really know).

 

[wasnt_me]

I would never do what he did. That’s what I say. That’s what I hope I’d live up to.

But yes, he shouldn’t be given a pass because he had a bad day, or whatever his defense is (I still don’t really know).

Wait. What are you referring to when you say you really don't know? His bad day or his defense?

 

[MadMcGoo]

Wait. What are you referring to when you say you really don't know? His bad day or his defense?

Both. Or either.

 

[MadMcGoo]

BBM. I have to disagree with you about that. He had plenty of options to do anything to avoid that. He took none of them. I believe that his ego would not allow him to be bettered by a small crowd or his juniors.

And I disagree with this. Strongly.

 

[MsBetsy]

We won’t ever know. You’re right.

Maybe that’s why this case is so hard on me. I’ve literally been in DC’s shoes. I’ve made a TON of mistakes. None fatal, luckily. I had bad days and good days.... and made mistakes on both. I’m human. I can’t even imagine having to answer to something like this. I know that GF didn’t have to die that day. I know that. I also know that DC never meant for that to happen. I believe he would have done anything to avoid that.

I keep trying to explain what it might have been like during that day, but even I don’t really know that. His training taught him better, his experience taught him better... so why? WHY?

I've said this before but I think he was used to getting away with this kind of behavior. He had 17 formal complaints against him and was only disciplined for two incidents. I think he thought this would just be another time he could explain his actions away by blaming it on the victim. He was already in that frame of mind when he told the other officer Floyd had been fighting him the whole time. Imo

 

[MadMcGoo]

I've said this before but I think he was used to getting away with this kind of behavior. He had 17 formal complaints against him and was only disciplined for two incidents. I think he thought this would just be another time he could explain his actions away by blaming it in the victim. He was already in that frame of mind when he told the other officer Floyd had been fighting him the whole time. Imo

He had been fighting him the whole time. I was surprised to learn DC came in during the middle of this incident.

The complaints mean nothing to me. I’ve had a ton filed on me. None of them amounted to a hill of beans. On paper though, one would think otherwise. I think this why the State never brought his up.

 

[Tom_Servo]

Chauvin could do the country a solid and plead guilty to the highest charge. Guess that would be dreaming...sigh...