NC - Andrew Brown Jr., 40, fatally shot by sheriff’s deputy, Elizabeth City, 21 Apr 2021

[al66pine]

Is Past Relevant?

So???... How is his past relevant? He should have been arrested...

@JaimeInLA sbm When LEOs serve an arrest or search warrant, they know the crim past and what the warrant is for, whether person has been arrested & convicted multiple times for same offenses, different offences? For violent crimes, served prison sentences? W this current arrest warrant, is person facing future serious charges, a long sentence?

Likely this warrant was not like a warrant for a clean-record 18 y/o kid being arrested for selling 5 of his mother's Rx pain pills to a friend of his, a single first-time offense.
In this case, this warrant was for multiple drug related offences, dealing, possession, etc. over a period of time (iirc, but may be misremembering). Seems like the kind of person who would be concerned about -
- risk of his $/drug stash/both being stolen, so would have firearms & weapons on his person, in his home & vehicles.
- being arrested, jailed, subjected to trial & incarceration, presumably depriving of his (alleged) unlawful livelihood.
Can LE be sure that others in the home, vehicles, or immed. vicinity do not have weapons? Will not use them?

Seems like a situation for several officers, not for a couple LEOs. Clearly, still not a guarantee of a smooth operation.
my2ct.

 

[SBops]

AFAIK we are allowed to post such information from MSM. I thought it was interesting. MOO

Yes, you are and you have, and we are allowed to question what that has to do with his death.

 

[SBops]

DBM

 

[tara83]

Is Past Relevant?
@JaimeInLA sbm When LEOs serve an arrest or search warrant, they know the crim past and what the warrant is for, whether person has been arrested & convicted multiple times for same offenses, different offences? For violent crimes, served prison sentences? W this current arrest warrant, is person facing future serious charges, a long sentence?

Likely this warrant was not like a warrant for a clean-record 18 y/o kid being arrested for selling 5 of his mother's Rx pain pills to a friend of his, a single first-time offense.
In this case, this warrant was for multiple drug related offences, dealing, possession, etc. over a period of time (iirc, but may be misremembering). Seems like the kind of person who would be concerned about -
- risk of his $/drug stash/both being stolen, so would have firearms & weapons on his person, in his home & vehicles.
- being arrested, jailed, subjected to trial & incarceration, presumably depriving of his (alleged) unlawful livelihood.
Can LE be sure that others in the home, vehicles, or immed. vicinity do not have weapons? Will not use them?

Seems like a situation for several officers, not for a couple LEOs. Clearly, still not a guarantee of a smooth operation.
my2ct.

That still doesn't explain a bullet in the back of the brain.And how about the wild shooting that sent a bullet into someone's house that had nothing to do with it.I'm just thankful the FBI is involved.

 

[SBops]

Is Past Relevant?
@JaimeInLA sbm When LEOs serve an arrest or search warrant, they know the crim past and what the warrant is for, whether person has been arrested & convicted multiple times for same offenses, different offences? For violent crimes, served prison sentences? W this current arrest warrant, is person facing future serious charges, a long sentence?

Likely this warrant was not like a warrant for a clean-record 18 y/o kid being arrested for selling 5 of his mother's Rx pain pills to a friend of his, a single first-time offense.
In this case, this warrant was for multiple drug related offences, dealing, possession, etc. over a period of time (iirc, but may be misremembering). Seems like the kind of person who would be concerned about -
- risk of his $/drug stash/both being stolen, so would have firearms & weapons on his person, in his home & vehicles.
- being arrested, jailed, subjected to trial & incarceration, presumably depriving of his (alleged) unlawful livelihood.
Can LE be sure that others in the home, vehicles, or immed. vicinity do not have weapons? Will not use them?

Seems like a situation for several officers, not for a couple LEOs. Clearly, still not a guarantee of a smooth operation.
my2ct.

Has he fired at police before when he was arrested?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

A hearing is scheduled for Wednesday morning at the Pasquotank County Courthouse regarding a petition for the release of the body-cam footage.
https://www.islandpacket.com/news/state/north-carolina/article250992969.html

 

[SBops]

Is Past Relevant?
@JaimeInLA sbm When LEOs serve an arrest or search warrant, they know the crim past and what the warrant is for, whether person has been arrested & convicted multiple times for same offenses, different offences? For violent crimes, served prison sentences? W this current arrest warrant, is person facing future serious charges, a long sentence?

Likely this warrant was not like a warrant for a clean-record 18 y/o kid being arrested for selling 5 of his mother's Rx pain pills to a friend of his, a single first-time offense.
In this case, this warrant was for multiple drug related offences, dealing, possession, etc. over a period of time (iirc, but may be misremembering). Seems like the kind of person who would be concerned about -
- risk of his $/drug stash/both being stolen, so would have firearms & weapons on his person, in his home & vehicles.
- being arrested, jailed, subjected to trial & incarceration, presumably depriving of his (alleged) unlawful livelihood.
Can LE be sure that others in the home, vehicles, or immed. vicinity do not have weapons? Will not use them?

Seems like a situation for several officers, not for a couple LEOs. Clearly, still not a guarantee of a smooth operation.
my2ct.

He was unarmed and no drugs were found at search. And with regard to his family members having weapons, isnt the 2a allowed for POC?

 

[al66pine]

So no trial or anything?If you are accused of a crime you deserve whatever happens?Scary.

@tara83 My post 92* discussed serving search warrants and did not state or allude to what your above post suggests -- no trial & the accused deserves whatever happens. Not close, not even in the ballpark.
____________________________________
* Serving Arrest Warrants?
tara83 said: ↑ If they are that on edge maybe they need to find another occupation. ....
@tara83 sbm bbm
If LEOs are not on edge and become relaxed while serving arrest warrants, seems likely imo -
- many more LEOs would be killed in line of duty while serving warrants and/or
- many warrants would go unserved.

One further thought - maybe drug dealers should find another occupation, a lawful occupation.
^Just possibilities^. my2ct.

 

[Leve]

He was unarmed and no drugs were found at search. And with regard to his family members having weapons, isnt the 2a allowed for POC?

Others in the home don't have to be family members. Sometimes dealers have all kinds of people in their homes. Black, white, brown, yellow, red doesn't matter. Nobody said or even in any insinuated that POC shouldn't have guns (for crying out loud)

Drug dealers and their cohorts however may have guns and may be more apt to use them.

 

[tara83]

Others in the home don't have to be family members. Sometimes dealers have all kinds of people in their homes. Black, white, brown, yellow, red doesn't matter. Nobody said or even in any insinuated that POC shouldn't have guns (for crying out loud)

Drug dealers and their cohorts however may have guns and may be more apt to use them.

Was a gun found on him?

 

[SBops]

Others in the home don't have to be family members. Sometimes dealers have all kinds of people in their homes. Black, white, brown, yellow, red doesn't matter. Nobody said or even in any insinuated that POC shouldn't have guns (for crying out loud)

Drug dealers and their cohorts however may have guns and may be more apt to use them.

Drug dealers may have guns in a state where everyone have guns? Why are guns allowed if you are not 'apt' to use them? I think that only one section of the community are allowed to use them.

 

[al66pine]

No Drugs?

... no drugs were found at search....

@SBops sbm Your post raises an interesting point. My post addresses only the drugs issue, nothing else.
While LEOs may have conducted a limited search, it was not completed.* I don't know if anyone can conclusively say no drugs were there (not that ^ post says that).

In this circumstance, I doubt LE would have reason to complete the search or search again, as case against Mr. Brown will be nolle pros'ed imo.
Does not seem likely imo that LE would try to secure another search warrant (in connection w another person, different charge) for the same home.
If drugs had been in the home when warrant was served, there's been time for them to be removed & disposed of.my2ct
______________________________________
From MSM yesterday Ap. 26: "The document, which indicated the search wasn't completed, didn't list anything found."
Andrew Brown Jr. search warrant: Drug deals captured on camera weeks before fatal police shooting

 

[MsBetsy]

@tara83 My post 92* discussed serving search warrants and did not state or allude to what your above post suggests -- no trial & the accused deserves whatever happens. Not close, not even in the ballpark.
____________________________________
* Serving Arrest Warrants?
tara83 said: ↑ If they are that on edge maybe they need to find another occupation. ....
@tara83 sbm bbm
If LEOs are not on edge and become relaxed while serving arrest warrants, seems likely imo -
- many more LEOs would be killed in line of duty while serving warrants and/or
- many warrants would go unserved.

One further thought - maybe drug dealers should find another occupation, a lawful occupation.
^Just possibilities^. my2ct.

If police officers are "on edge" (nervous or irritable) while carrying out an arrest they may be likely to make a fatal mistake like shoot at a moving vehicle, kill someone, or hit someone with a stray bullet.

That drug dealers should find a lawful occupation has no relevance to the officer's actions in this case. Their job is to serve and protect and to arrest people who do break the law. They don't have to be "relaxed," but they should be capable of carrying out an arrest without being careless, using unnecessary deadly force or putting others in danger. Imo

 

[JaimeInLA]

Andrew Brown Jr. search warrant: Drug deals captured on camera weeks before fatal police shooting

Andrew Brown Jr. – a Black man fatally shot as sheriff's deputies executed a warrant in Elizabeth City, N.C., on April 21 – was described as a drug dealer in the Pasquotank County area and had a criminal rap sheet over 180 pages long and dating back to May 1988, according to a copy of the search warrant and other records obtained by Fox News.

So???

He is the victim in this case. How is his past relevant? He should have been arrested, not executed. That’s why we have a justice system.

Is Past Relevant?
@JaimeInLA sbm When LEOs serve an arrest or search warrant, they know the crim past and what the warrant is for, whether person has been arrested & convicted multiple times for same offenses, different offences? For violent crimes, served prison sentences? W this current arrest warrant, is person facing future serious charges, a long sentence?

Likely this warrant was not like a warrant for a clean-record 18 y/o kid being arrested for selling 5 of his mother's Rx pain pills to a friend of his, a single first-time offense.
In this case, this warrant was for multiple drug related offences, dealing, possession, etc. over a period of time (iirc, but may be misremembering). Seems like the kind of person who would be concerned about -
- risk of his $/drug stash/both being stolen, so would have firearms & weapons on his person, in his home & vehicles.
- being arrested, jailed, subjected to trial & incarceration, presumably depriving of his (alleged) unlawful livelihood.
Can LE be sure that others in the home, vehicles, or immed. vicinity do not have weapons? Will not use them?

Seems like a situation for several officers, not for a couple LEOs. Clearly, still not a guarantee of a smooth operation.
my2ct.

I understand the severity of the situation and the potential risks. Still, their job is to bring the suspect in alive to face justice. That is their literal job! Protect, serve, and pick up people who have warrants so they can see their day in court!

 

[al66pine]

Out of the Blue?

... And with regard to his family members having weapons, isnt the 2a allowed for POC?

sbm This post addresses only ^ part of your post.
Family Members
My post* commented about "others in the home, vehicles, or immed. vicinity" who might have weapons & use them. Possible dangers to LEOs serving warrants are not limited to "family members" w firearms or other weapons.
POC & 2nd A.
My post did not refer to anything about PoC or race. Nor did it reference gun ownership or 2nd A issues.
@Leve accurately said, re my post: "Nobody said or even in any insinuated that POC shouldn't have guns..."

____________________________________
* Snipped from my post 101: "Can LE be sure that others in the home, vehicles, or immed. vicinity do not have weapons? Will not use them?"
** Snipped from post 109 by @Leve: "... Others in the home don't have to be family members. Sometimes dealers have all kinds of people in their homes. Black, white, brown, yellow, red doesn't matter. Nobody said or even in any insinuated that POC shouldn't have guns (for crying out loud)?...." sbm

 

[al66pine]

Autopsy Report?
Did Kendall, atty for the family, release a copy of report of autopsy commissioned by the family?
Ap. 27 article said "Kendall described the autopsy report..."* bbm
In the interest of transparency, seems he would???

If MSM gave a link to pdf/image of ^ report, I missed it. Anyone? TiA.

* Law enforcement begins making arrests as protestors defy curfew in Elizabeth City :: WRAL.com

 

[MsBetsy]

Autopsy Report?
Did Kendall, atty for the family, release a copy of report of autopsy commissioned by the family?
Ap. 27 article said "Kendall described the autopsy report..."* bbm
In the interest of transparency, seems he would???

If MSM gave a link to pdf/image of ^ report, I missed it. Anyone? TiA.

* Law enforcement begins making arrests as protestors defy curfew in Elizabeth City :: WRAL.com

They only released the one or two pages they discussed. It basically describes the gunshot wounds and the kill shot. Manner of death is homicide. I don't remember which article it was in but it's posted somewhere upthread. Either way, it's not their responsibility to release details of the investigation. The autopsy report is only one piece of evidence. It's up to LE to release the details and make arrests. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Others in the home don't have to be family members. Sometimes dealers have all kinds of people in their homes. Black, white, brown, yellow, red doesn't matter. Nobody said or even in any insinuated that POC shouldn't have guns (for crying out loud)

Drug dealers and their cohorts however may have guns and may be more apt to use them.

I think that's true for any arrest. Police need to be prepared for and assess all possible risks. If that risk becomes a threat, then deadly force may be warranted.

However in this case we still don't know what the threat was, or why the officers felt their lives were in danger. If they knew he was high risk and a runner, then why not bring three police vehicles and use them to block his access for escape? They didn't seem to plan very well. They just started shooting a few seconds after they shouted commands. From what footage we have seen the suspect had his hands on the steering wheel and did not attempt to drive away until he was shot 3 or 4 times. Neither he nor anyone from the house appeared to have a weapon. The only threat at that time was the moving vehicle and the bullet that ricocheted off the neighbor's walls. They are lucky no-one else was injured.
Imo

 

[BeckyF]

Disgraceful. Why was all that manpower needed to arrest one man for a victimless crime?

Drugs can kill. Drug dealing is not a victimless crime. IMO

 

[everybodhi]

No Drugs?

@SBops sbm Your post raises an interesting point. My post addresses only the drugs issue, nothing else.
While LEOs may have conducted a limited search, it was not completed.* I don't know if anyone can conclusively say no drugs were there (not that ^ post says that).

In this circumstance, I doubt LE would have reason to complete the search or search again, as case against Mr. Brown will be nolle pros'ed imo.
Does not seem likely imo that LE would try to secure another search warrant (in connection w another person, different charge) for the same home.
If drugs had been in the home when warrant was served, there's been time for them to be removed & disposed of.my2ct
______________________________________
From MSM yesterday Ap. 26: "The document, which indicated the search wasn't completed, didn't list anything found."
Andrew Brown Jr. search warrant: Drug deals captured on camera weeks before fatal police shooting

Oh wow. So the theory is all those cops showed up and immediately killed the guy they were serving a warrant, then made a decision not to do a thorough search and leave drugs in the house?