FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #13

[Markybug]

Re the car bonnet, if the poi was not involved directly but merely moving the car he wouldn’t think to wipe the bonnet down as he hadn’t touched it ?

 

[Truth Prevails]

Re the car bonnet, if the poi was not involved directly but merely moving the car he wouldn’t think to wipe the bonnet down as he hadn’t touched it ?

Or, he thought about it but the timing was an issue, or he realized taking Jennifer's vehicle to a car wash would open up multiply opportunities for someone to see and remember the vehicle and the driver; maybe even creating an opportunity to be caught on a good, or better, quality surveillance video. In other words, it wasn't worth the risk, maybe.

 

[Georgia8]

Thanks for the link to those earlier discussions - the stuff about the lie detector is quite strange, I imagine if you were asked to do a lie detector years after the event AND you were inclined to protect the victim's reputation even in your mind you might realize you felt inclined to lie to the FBI (obviously a terrible idea) even though nobody wanted to solve the crime more than you.

Does anyone who knew the case much longer ago than me (just a few months ago) know why her Dad was at leaning towards the trafficking theory? Just blind hope that she was alive or due to some reasoning or if not evidence, knowledge? And I think he is less inclined to believe that now? As I understand it he believes she is not alive his wife still has some hope. So why the change? Just the passage of time too many years or, again, through some reasoning or knowledge if not evidence exactly?

 

[seib_seib]

Sorry to hijack with a random question...I'm a longtime lurker and just newly posting...

Do we know when her flight got in from her vacation? If she only had one flight, or had a connection?

I'm curious because I know St. Croix's small airport well, I've spent probably a quarter of my life there since I was born - it can be an EXHAUSTING place to fly out of and can make for a long day of travel (going to the theory of her being tired after returning). The airport signage recommends you get there THREE HOURS prior to your flight because it can be such a ***show.

However, if she took one direct flight from there to Miami (I don't believe any flights out of there go directly to Orlando, but I could be wrong) it actually wouldn't be that tiresome (IMO) that's always the easy leg of my trips.

I actually returned from St. Croix a couple of weeks ago and it was the first time I ever sat there and thought about Jennifer being there shortly before her life was completely altered, possibly taken. I hope so badly that this is solved someday.

 

[flgrl017]

Thanks for the link to those earlier discussions - the stuff about the lie detector is quite strange, I imagine if you were asked to do a lie detector years after the event AND you were inclined to protect the victim's reputation even in your mind you might realize you felt inclined to lie to the FBI (obviously a terrible idea) even though nobody wanted to solve the crime more than you.

Does anyone who knew the case much longer ago than me (just a few months ago) know why her Dad was at leaning towards the trafficking theory? Just blind hope that she was alive or due to some reasoning or if not evidence, knowledge? And I think he is less inclined to believe that now? As I understand it he believes she is not alive his wife still has some hope. So why the change? Just the passage of time too many years or, again, through some reasoning or knowledge if not evidence exactly?

I agree with you about the poly.
As far as the trafficking theory, I think it’s wishful thinking. I’ve never saw anything that could lead to that. From watching the 48 hour episode their theories are all over the place IMHO.

 

[K9Enzo]

I agree with you about the poly.
As far as the trafficking theory, I think it’s wishful thinking. I’ve never saw anything that could lead to that. From watching the 48 hour episode their theories are all over the place IMHO.

Agreed. I also don't see Jennifer as a high risk victim at all. It's a myth that victims of sex trafficking are abducted from parking lots and grocery stores, as an example. My own Sheriff's office released an education statement several years ago because of these rumors and residents being afraid. It was all social media rumors that took hold. IMO

ETA: what they did say to watch out for, are these posters that pop up on busy intersections that say "work from home, earn $30 per hour" with a phone number. Those are often ploys. Right out in the open, hoping for someone that can be groomed and enticed with money, an apartment, etc. IMO

 

[flgrl017]

Sorry to hijack with a random question...I'm a longtime lurker and just newly posting...

Do we know when her flight got in from her vacation? If she only had one flight, or had a connection?

I'm curious because I know St. Croix's small airport well, I've spent probably a quarter of my life there since I was born - it can be an EXHAUSTING place to fly out of and can make for a long day of travel (going to the theory of her being tired after returning). The airport signage recommends you get there THREE HOURS prior to your flight because it can be such a ***show.

However, if she took one direct flight from there to Miami (I don't believe any flights out of there go directly to Orlando, but I could be wrong) it actually wouldn't be that tiresome (IMO) that's always the easy leg of my trips.

I actually returned from St. Croix a couple of weeks ago and it was the first time I ever sat there and thought about Jennifer being there shortly before her life was completely altered, possibly taken. I hope so badly that this is solved someday.

She drove to Rob’s place in south Florida and they flew from there. I’m not sure what airport they flew out of. It was either Ft Lauderdale or Miami. They flew back from St Croix on Sunday. On Monday she drove directly from Rob’s to work. Last known contact was with Rob Monday night at 9:57 pm (cell phone). Her phone was pinging after she got off the phone with Rob until about 10:40 when it went dead.

 

[Valiant]

Re the car bonnet, if the poi was not involved directly but merely moving the car he wouldn’t think to wipe the bonnet down as he hadn’t touched it ?

Or, he thought about it but the timing was an issue, or he realized taking Jennifer's vehicle to a car wash would open up multiply opportunities for someone to see and remember the vehicle and the driver; maybe even creating an opportunity to be caught on a good, or better, quality surveillance video. In other words, it wasn't worth the risk, maybe.

My thoughts:
1) He/she was time constrained and had to get back to the area of her apartment on a schedule that didn't make a car wash practical - especially if they weren't real familiar with the area.
2) You can wipe the inside of a car and remain inconspicuous. You park a car and get out and wipe down much of the exterior and you draw attention.
Just my thoughts.

 

[CastlesBurning]

This week marks missing Orlando woman Jennifer Kesse's 40th birthday

 

[Niner]

Disappearance of Jennifer Kesse examined on 48 Hours on ID

June 13, 2021

48 Hours on ID is in Orlando, Florida, to investigate the abduction and presumed murder of Jennifer Kesse, who disappeared without a trace while making her way to work in 2006.

The 24-year-old has been missing for 15 years after vanishing one morning while heading out to work. She is assumed to be dead, but a body has not been recovered, and nobody has been charged with her murder.

 

[tortconsulting]

I notice that Jennifer's car had no front license plate. From my (limited) experience, it's common for a person who steals cars to remove the front plate (with the idea that if he backs the car into a parking space, it makes it harder for the police to check the status of the car). But I don't know if Jennifer's car had a front plate originally. Maybe not.

The poi had thirty seconds to wipe down the car and apparently did a pretty good job.

From the program I watched, the dog appears to have trailed the suspect back to Jennifer's complex and to a hedge and a fence. Possibly a bicycle had been chained there? The dog would have been scented, I think, off the driver's seat of the car. Where's that seat now? Is it possible there's still trace DNA from his pants, shirt, etc.?

Anyway, random thoughts. Maybe I'd look for a then-teenaged male with a history of stealing cars.

Most Florida cars do NOT have front license plates as they are not required

 

[tortconsulting]

The following article about newly released evidence has been copied to the Media thread *No Discussion*.

Jennifer Kesse disappearance: Newly released police photos suggest violent struggle

Now, nearly 15 years later, evidence photos obtained by Fox News suggest a violent struggle took place on the front hood of the 24-year-old woman’s car, a clue the family hopes will yield new leads in a case that has long been unsolved.

"It looked like someone was thrown down on the top of the hood – arms spread out and then dragged back almost like off the hood to the point where you can almost see fingers scribbling down the hood," said Kesse’s father, Drew.

"The photos look suspicious and show what appears to be a hand mark going across the hood," added Mike Torretta, a former federal agent and private investigator hired by the Kesse family.

"We hope that by showing the public these photos, someone will come forward with information they’ve been holding onto for all these years," Torretta said.

This does NOT mak any sense unless the struggle occurred somewhere other than the middle of her apartment parking lot at 7AM where many people are going to out and about for work.

 

[tortconsulting]

Caveat: I have limited knowledge of the case just most of the Unconcluded podcast and and a limited amount of W.S. ....but so far....

1. The car abduction theory is to some extent in contradiction to the condo worker theory. If there was an empty unit next to Jennifer's and other empty units to which workers had keys, then why take the enormous risk of abducting her so publicly? If these people wished harm on Jennifer they had many safer options that would give them plenty of time to harm her in privacy.

2. I would strongly caution against the idea that the people close to Jennifer know everything about Jennifer, every one of her habits, every one of her thoughts even every secret of her life assuming she had secrets. She may have held things back even out of concern for alarming or worrying them and maybe in conversations there were other things she wanted to talk about and didn't want the conversation to focus just on her anxieties. This inevitably happens when the family is placed in the role of needing to be just advocates for the case... an extreme example is Amy Bradley. I mean to cast no aspersion here.

3. I say this because what worries me so far is the evidence (assuming they are not exaggerating) of the person who claims that a very distracted and out of character Jennifer tried to rent an apt. from her. Now going by her voice only I slightly distrust the part where she says she went back and checked the form that had been filled out and it had Jennifer's name i.e. Jennifer Kresse in full............... I will have to listen again but she may be stretching the truth at the point. If not, if this really happened then it is very very strange. What could it mean? What is Jennifer looking outside at what is she worried about? And why in the heck is she looking for an apt. if she has just bought a condo? Also note that we know that Jennifer expressed anxiety at her condo about the workers to her family and it appears on multiple occasions. Yet one other woman on the podcast who socialized with Chino and Ben says she was simply cautious but not afraid of them at all...she only found it strange when they left their jobs suddenly. Is there any chance Jennifer had a vague experience of being stalked and was attributing it to people around her as she tried to make sense of it and also was afraid of sharing it for fear of sounding a bit crazy?

4. The video/photo evidence: can we tell the race of the person from it? The podcast mentions that the 'white' colour of clothing is not necessarily accurate since when tested, everything would look white due to the incessant copying over of the tape. Does this extend to skin colour? (though to me the person looks white and not Hispanic or Black and again I am not talking skin colour if we can't tell cause of the tape. But could they be say black? (Thinking of the jewellery store worker's story on Inconcluded who says she saw a run down beleaguered Jennifer with a nicely dressed black (she says very dark skinned) male with attractive well kempt dreadlocks.

I agree, there is a strong initial similarity to the person/gait etc of the person in the 'chino' photo and the person in the surveillance photo

5. There is some contradiction between the bootprint evidence, the FBI estimate of the size of the person on the camera. There IS a disturbing similarity between the forward lean in the profile photo of Chino on WS and the camera footage - also the way the arms hang. Probably less so the face. But on the other hand I agree with some others the person on the tape looks younger in appearance and gait and walking speed than I take it the condo workers to have been.

6. There is a bit of a match between the character of the Jennifer who is distracted and fearful and bizarrely trying to rent an apartment near her condo, the Jennifer who seems, to me, to be unusually vigilant in her own condo unit needing to have her Dad on the phone if there was a worker in the unit and the more degraded Jennifer in the jewellery shop. No I am not believing those two sitings necessarily.

7. I would like to know how Jennifer was with her boyfriend on her trip? Was there the same need for vigilance in St. Croix or was she was relaxed? If he really examines his experience of Jennifer on the trip and in the last few months before her disappearance was there anything and I mean anything that could give him pause?

 

[tortconsulting]

Does anyone have more information on the nature of Jennifer's work at the time share company? Over what geo area were these time shares? To what extent did she interact with clients with existing time shares or potential clients? How many people worked at her company and what were her work relations like? Since she is clearly an ambitious person I am wondering if this is one area where she could be made vulnerable i.e. perhaps needing to cover up anxiety she had about clients or fellow workers/bosses. As you can see from my previous post though Chino and the workers make great suspects I am interested in developing a theory or a possibility where the workers are a major red herring and that Jennifer was projecting some other life anxiety she had onto them. Also with less confidence was she was experiencing any mental health/stress issue especially if it was being caused by of stalking/ harrassment. I think we are turning her condo into a bit of a myth, a house of horrors. To me her family seems to be aiding attention in direction. It might turn out to be right it might not. I don't have the same confidence that she did not go out in the evening though I agree it was not to mail that phone. She may have gone out for some other reason it would have to be pressing. I have some suspicion those phone records lean in that direction no evidence. Also I am interested in the proximity in time of the return from the St. Croix trip and her disappearance. I have no idea (yet) what I mean by that. By the way were there any time shares in St. Croix? Why was St. Croix chosen for the trip? I am imagining a stalker or someone obsessed with Jennifer being jealous of that trip especially sexually jealous. So that Jennifer it would be a romantic and delightful all round experience with her boyfriend but for the this 'other' I am imagining.....they are just thinking sex, sex, sex.

Why are people disappointed when human remains turn out not to be those of a missing person? Obviously I think Jennifer met with foul play but what are the scenarios where she could still be alive? I know of two discussed so far 1. the human trafficking angle and 2. that she was not trafficked per se but did fall under the control of someone. 3. O.K. a third because the police believed she had run away. Why did they believe this? Laziness probably but anything else? Why does the car video mean 100% that she met with foul play? Especially as on the face of it the person in the video in so far as we can see anything in the darn thing DOES give off a somewhat elegant prosperous air? Some have mentioned private schools....I doubt that but there IS something about him that looks upper class. Does anybody see the shoes as looking highly fashionable not like construction boots. The hairstyle looks trendy. Yes realize I am clutching at straws but we all are.

How did FBI come up with the estimated height for the person in the video? Hairstyle not necessarily trendy, but to me leans female

 

[tortconsulting]

Whether it’s a nighttime or early morning abduction, the shower being wet has always thrown me off. From personal experience my shower dries much faster than that. There maybe some water that lingers around the shampoo bottles for several hours, but that’s about it. I wonder if the family ever tested out the shower to see how long it takes to dry. I’ve saw some people theorize that the perp returned to her apartment and showered.

I haven’t listened to the podcast yet, but I intend to. I did watch an interview her parents did after they received the evidence. IMO their theories conflict. I’d she was abducted at her door and taken into another apartment then why would there have been a struggle at the car? If he was with her in another apartment then why and when did he move the car?

If this was an early morning abduction, the perp only had about 4.5 hours between abduction and car drop off. That’s not much time to kidnap her, take her to another location, possibly sexually assault/murder her, clean up, and dump the car. Plus he would have to dispose of the body. He also didn’t have her briefcase or purse when he left her vehicle so he had already disposed of those items.

I will also add that this was done in daylight if it was an am abduction.

I agree with a lot of your points. What info is there on the 'damp' towel. How damp? and where was the towel? I hang my towels up when I shower at night, in the morning they are usually try, but If I leave a damp towel on the floor it will most likely still be damp the next day. Also, you are right, not enough time to do all this on scene, or next door and leave no trace. Though sunrise was at 7:16 on the morning of January 24, 2006 (per online almanac) it is an active hour with people out and about, going to work, working out etc. so it seems more likely that whatever happened to her, happened the night before. Where was her car leading up to the video where it was dropped off at Huntington Apartments?

 

[tortconsulting]

Whether it’s a nighttime or early morning abduction, the shower being wet has always thrown me off. From personal experience my shower dries much faster than that. There maybe some water that lingers around the shampoo bottles for several hours, but that’s about it. I wonder if the family ever tested out the shower to see how long it takes to dry. I’ve saw some people theorize that the perp returned to her apartment and showered.

I haven’t listened to the podcast yet, but I intend to. I did watch an interview her parents did after they received the evidence. IMO their theories conflict. I’d she was abducted at her door and taken into another apartment then why would there have been a struggle at the car? If he was with her in another apartment then why and when did he move the car?

If this was an early morning abduction, the perp only had about 4.5 hours between abduction and car drop off. That’s not much time to kidnap her, take her to another location, possibly sexually assault/murder her, clean up, and dump the car. Plus he would have to dispose of the body. He also didn’t have her briefcase or purse when he left her vehicle so he had already disposed of those items.

I will also add that this was done in daylight if it was an am abduction.

I agree with a lot of your points. What info is there on the 'damp' towel. How damp? and where was the towel? I hang my towels up when I shower at night, in the morning they are usually try, but If I leave a damp towel on the floor it will most likely still be damp the next day. Also, you are right, not enough time to do all this on scene, or next door and leave no trace. Though sunrise was at 7:16 on the morning of January 24, 2006 (per online almanac) it is an active hour with people out and about, going to work, working out etc. so it seems more likely that whatever happened to her, happened the night before. Where was her car leading up to the video where it was dropped off at Huntington Apartments?

Fence video longer version google Daily Mail Jessica Kesse person of interest: in the third shot of three at around 28 seconds and after you would expect the person's face to show as they appear to be further along the post (though I am speaking in terms of inches here). Oddly it doesn't. Oddly you will see movement in the shot AFTER that third shot but BEFORE what should be in terms of timing the fourth shot by which time in any case the person should have been out of sight. Look at the car at the point there is movement of light or reflection and a general rippling in the frame. Why is this? How was the camera footage recovered? What was the chain of custody? Is there any chance this film? digital image? has been tampered with? Perhaps it is simply a matter of camera angle or of camera issues or some type of reflection what do you think? Perhaps someone did not want us to see the face.

In the second shot of the three part of the face in profile does show between two posts - I am surprised a general shape of the head could not be guessed at. This person has quite a unique gait and slightly unusual body type apparently VERY thin perhaps concave and as some have said perhaps large feet for his/her size. To me taller than the FBI thinks.

I agree, seems taller.

 

[tortconsulting]

Fence video longer version google Daily Mail Jessica Kesse person of interest: in the third shot of three at around 28 seconds and after you would expect the person's face to show as they appear to be further along the post (though I am speaking in terms of inches here). Oddly it doesn't. Oddly you will see movement in the shot AFTER that third shot but BEFORE what should be in terms of timing the fourth shot by which time in any case the person should have been out of sight. Look at the car at the point there is movement of light or reflection and a general rippling in the frame. Why is this? How was the camera footage recovered? What was the chain of custody? Is there any chance this film? digital image? has been tampered with? Perhaps it is simply a matter of camera angle or of camera issues or some type of reflection what do you think? Perhaps someone did not want us to see the face.

In the second shot of the three part of the face in profile does show between two posts - I am surprised a general shape of the head could not be guessed at. This person has quite a unique gait and slightly unusual body type apparently VERY thin perhaps concave and as some have said perhaps large feet for his/her size. To me taller than the FBI thinks.

I agree, I think taller.

 

[tortconsulting]

It concerns me that the cell phone evidence has been dismissed.

What is the cell phone evidence?

 

[fr brown]

Most Florida cars do NOT have front license plates as they are not required

They're not required where I live either, but most cars have them. In fact, a cop told me that if she sees a car without a front license plate, she considers that suspicious.

 

[SimplyCass]

I agree with a lot of your points. What info is there on the 'damp' towel. How damp? and where was the towel? I hang my towels up when I shower at night, in the morning they are usually try, but If I leave a damp towel on the floor it will most likely still be damp the next day. Also, you are right, not enough time to do all this on scene, or next door and leave no trace. Though sunrise was at 7:16 on the morning of January 24, 2006 (per online almanac) it is an active hour with people out and about, going to work, working out etc. so it seems more likely that whatever happened to her, happened the night before. Where was her car leading up to the video where it was dropped off at Huntington Apartments?

I agree, seems taller.

In thread #6, someone did a shower experiment (unsure how closely it matched the conditions at the condo to see how quickly a towel would dry. FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #6

FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #11
^ in that thread, Drew Kesse said that Jennifer showered in the morning, not at night (unless she was going out for a formal occasion). He's not a verified insider (since he was concerned about his safety); I haven't been able to quickly locate a MSM source where he says that.