Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #134

Status
Not open for further replies.
If he knew someone saw him before the murders that day they would describe him with facial hair. He did not know if anyone would see him after or not so he quickly changed his appearance from earlier just in case. JMHO

Dear @raja,

Great point! It's a possibility as the first sketch shown *the younger sketch" was compiled from descriptions from witnesses. No facial hair.

There are so many possibilities surrounding this case - I think we do well with the few details we have been told.

My thoughts have been that Chadwell was homeless at that time (he was in between jobs) and could have been camping out in the wooded area - just a possibility. JMO

The vehicle that the L.E. was interested in identifying (the one that was parked by the closed old building) may even have been Chadwell's vehicle. Homeless people still sometimes have vehicles. They just couldn't afford to stay where they were living.

These are all just my thoughts and opinions.

Hoping so hard that there is news soon from the L.E. (I know we all are)

Especially hoping that Libby and Abby's families have an answer that will solve this. My heart is with them as they wait and hope.

May tomorrow be the day!
 
First I want to make this very clear, and I have such admiration for all Gray does. All of his videos have me mesmerized by the skill he has.

Gray has a very close relationship for his inside sources. Imo, they are in law enforcement.

So this is what I've been thinking, and would like to know what you all think.

Gray wants this double murderer caught so could he have been advised to mislead this time about the amount of DNA they really have?

Gray, and LE knows the killer of the girls when caught will have kept up closely with all media sources including SM about the case. I'm sure the FBI profilers have told them this, imo.

Who knows the killer may have been reading here the entire time. Murderers may have even posted on WS in the past. One did at least who was the woman who was an accountant in charge when a gentleman hit a lottery in the millions in Florida. The man had been killed, and she knew he was dead the entire time she posted. She, and a man were tried, and convicted for murder.

Remember when the PC in the WDC sniper mass shooting case purposefully mislead the public pretending they didn't know what kind of car the two were driving when he knew all along it wasn't a white van?

Could it be a possibilty now that Gray put out there were a weak amount of skin cells under advertisement by someone in LE?

They knew he would be watch it thinking they have only very weak DNA giving him a false sense of security. I've been thinking about that, and it doesn't really make sense to me when the murderer came in body to body contact with both girls. I highly respect all who think otherwise.

Other LE in other big cases have purposefully put out misleading information before with the help of trusted media sources, and no doubt they know Gray is one who is trusted by them. They also know the high amount of viewers he gets.

It's just a thought, and nothing more.

Jmho

Dear @oceanblueeyes,

Great insight (as always!)

I believe that social media accounts as well as the Websleuths site are watched by perpetrators as well as law enforcement.

That was a fascinating fact you shared with us about a murderer posting here on W.S.! There is always a chance that the murderer or a member of his/her family or a friend is posting here. They would likely post rumours or misinformation about the murderer but the members of WS stick with the facts and they won't be fooled by any of that.

I, too, admire the time and effort Gray Hughes takes in creating his information, maps, etc. His compassion for victims in all of the cases he covers in his "Gray Hughes Investigates" is evident.

Gray Hughes is also careful with his wording during the videos. He clearly points out what are "rumours" about the cases and what the actual facts known are.

I also especially like how Gray Hughes uses satellite images to zoom onto buildings to show up where cameras are located. This has always been so helpful.

In his most recent video, G.H. shows a camera which is directed across the street to the old building parking lot where the L.E. were asking for information about a vehicle that had been there on February 13th.

Hopefully tomorrow or very soon there will be a press conference from the L.E.

I keep thinking of Abby and Libby's families (I know we all do) and I admire their strength and closeness during this unfathomable time (since February 13, 2017).

May they always be surrounded by comfort, strength and love.


JMO
 
Last edited:
I think I’m alone in this but I don’t think the first and second sketches look anything alike. It’s not just facial hair, it’s face shape, age, hair texture, ear size and shape, weight. They are IMO two different people. If LE has video of more of the crime (as I think they’ve alluded to), I would go off the video before someone’s recollection of someone they passed by.

There are a lot of studies on eyewitness testimony but why it is usually valuable is because the witness saw something shocking or traumatic that creates a strong memory that they can recollect. We don’t necessarily remember accurately everyone we come across absent some reason to remember them. If a witness saw a man attacking two girls or leading them down the hill, I would trust that recollection more than trying to recall random people walking near someone on a path.

I am sure LE has a very good reason for releasing the second sketch but having two sketches is confusing unless you are warning of two offenders IMO.
 
There have been so many different stories around about the crime scene / location that I srsly have no idea - I know nothing about any possible “posing”’ or state of victims etc or anything else about “how he left them.”

But can I say that in general a crime scene near a body of water may not have good dna IMO. a perp may take advantage of presence of water to submerge victim’s body and rid it of external DNA. MOO - no info, just speculation based on generality
 
I think I’m alone in this but I don’t think the first and second sketches look anything alike. It’s not just facial hair, it’s face shape, age, hair texture, ear size and shape, weight. They are IMO two different people. If LE has video of more of the crime (as I think they’ve alluded to), I would go off the video before someone’s recollection of someone they passed by.

There are a lot of studies on eyewitness testimony but why it is usually valuable is because the witness saw something shocking or traumatic that creates a strong memory that they can recollect. We don’t necessarily remember accurately everyone we come across absent some reason to remember them. If a witness saw a man attacking two girls or leading them down the hill, I would trust that recollection more than trying to recall random people walking near someone on a path.

I am sure LE has a very good reason for releasing the second sketch but having two sketches is confusing unless you are warning of two offenders IMO.
I agree and that really long protruding chin on the second sketch is not obvious on the vid of BG. I am sure that would be evident even on a poor quality still.
 
The only DNA they have is possible weak partial touch DNA from one of the girls clothing.

Correct. A quick google search (by no means official or comprehensive) shows touch DNA on common fabrics can last up to 36 days.

Plus the fact that the girls borrowed the sweatshirts they had on.. the trace DNA definitely doesn’t sound strong. Really hoping that LE does have something more solid. Either way, I fully trust that the signatures are unique and will help identify BG.

Thanks for sharing- tons of new information I hadn’t heard yet.. IMO it continues to support BG being younger (strong enough to carry out this crime), familiar with the area, and that this certainly was not his first crime (or murder).

As for JBC- I also found it strange that he was not restrained while walking through the station.. I know we only have a few frames to compare to, but the walk/body language seemed pretty similar. Lots of similarities- staying positive, but not getting my hopes up just yet.

Crossing my fingers for some positive news soon.. justice is long overdue for these girls and their families.
 
I agree and that really long protruding chin on the second sketch is not obvious on the vid of BG. I am sure that would be evident even on a poor quality still.
Sketches are super broad representations.

Every man in Indiana seems to look like one of those sketches, its wierd.


MOO JBC looking like the sketch is the least of the indicators he should be a POI.

His height, weight, and WMA are a physical match.

The disparity of strength between him and a child is the means.

Sexually and physically assaulting a child is a obviously a motivation for him.
Along with violent general criminality.

Living and working in the area provides broad opportunity.

Let's hope if he did it they have the evidence.
 
Last edited:
I wonder when there will be more news on investigation into BJC. MOO it takes the edge off the wait knowing that he’s in custody for other outrageous crime & not going anywhere ever. W no clock ticking on his detainment (unthinkable that he’d get bail IMO right??) LE has all the time in the world to come to conclusions on this. They should drag it out to make sure they cross all their Ts ... esp if there’s enough evidence that there could actually be a trial JMO

I’ve been trying to remember how long it took for LE to announce that Jesse Matthew was also tied to the murder of Morgan Harrington after they arrested him for Hannah’s murder. Haven’t had time to go back and look.
 
Just an afterthought on the partial DNA question:

Partial DNA might not let them make a match but it can be enough to rule somebody out. If for example they have the 9-location data, somebody who doesn't match those locations, can be eliminated. That could be why they were able to rule out some of the earlier possibilities like DN.
 
Just an afterthought on the partial DNA question:

Partial DNA might not let them make a match but it can be enough to rule somebody out. If for example they have the 9-location data, somebody who doesn't match those locations, can be eliminated. That could be why they were able to rule out some of the earlier possibilities like DN.

That sounds right.
MOO All long its seems they have been able to eliminate but not move forward to identify.
 
she could have been dragged because she was unconscious,

my best guess is she was knocked unconscious and was dragged a ways by her bound wrists.

or she was bound by hands and wrist and dragged. or she was dragged in the fight..dragged to the water etc.

mOO
 
That sounds like the guy I've referenced a few times in this video talking about BG being in the area a longer time and when Libby's dad was looking for her. He also said only touch DNA from one of the girl's sweatshirts.

At 2:04:20 (DG searching, BG there)
At 1:59:30 (Touch DNA)


I believe you are 100% correct. I spoke with the man today and have read what he has to say and I believe he’s very legit. Grays source lives in the Delphi area and he’s been around for a long time. This info has been known elsewhere on the internet (not FB). He’s also not that crazy person who caused an uproar recently either. IMO.
 
Please someone, tell me where and when it has ever been mentioned that anyone near the trails on Feb 13 2017 saw anyone cycling. If...as GH’s source claims...there was “another cyclist”, where is the reference to the first cyclist? I’m not trying to be difficult, but it is presented as if it’s important information, and I’m oblivious apparently.
 
Plus the fact that the girls borrowed the sweatshirts they had on.. the trace DNA definitely doesn’t sound strong. Really hoping that LE does have something more solid. Either way, I fully trust that the signatures are unique and will help identify BG.

Thanks for sharing- tons of new information I hadn’t heard yet.. IMO it continues to support BG being younger (strong enough to carry out this crime), familiar with the area, and that this certainly was not his first crime (or murder).

As for JBC- I also found it strange that he was not restrained while walking through the station.. I know we only have a few frames to compare to, but the walk/body language seemed pretty similar. Lots of similarities- staying positive, but not getting my hopes up just yet.

Crossing my fingers for some positive news soon.. justice is long overdue for these girls and their families.
Can you point me to the news clip of him walking through fhe station.
And not restrained? What do you mean?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
187
Guests online
2,050
Total visitors
2,237

Forum statistics

Threads
589,948
Messages
17,928,063
Members
228,011
Latest member
legalpyro74
Back
Top