Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

[Kitkat28]

What made police zone in so quickly on “The Georgian”? Is he a known criminal? If so why was he wandering the streets?

 

[Skigh]

Γλυκά Νερά: «Γίνονται έρευνες σε πολλά μέτωπα, υπάρχουν στοιχεία», λέει ο σύζυγος της Καρολάιν
The article itself doesn't say much, but in the video, a police reporter is talking about what's been puzzling the authorities, the fact that there doesn't appear to be any CCTV footage or cellphone activity of the robbers, and that forensic evidence collected from the house is "minimal". He says that there could be important developments and/or twists in the case in the days to come. I'll post a more detailed translation later.

That is interesting . Look forward to hearing about the important developments in the case.

 

[Patrick Jane]

What made police zone in so quickly on “The Georgian”? Is he a known criminal? If so why was he wandering the streets?

He was picked up at the border trying to cross with a fake passport. And, yes, he's a known criminal. His DNA was reportedly found at the scene of a prior robbery, in the same region, which had a similar modus operandi.

 

[caylee17799]

What made police zone in so quickly on “The Georgian”? Is he a known criminal? If so why was he wandering the streets?

Welcome to the reality of Greece's treatment of criminals!
He was stopped at the border for id verification, got caught with a fake passport, got taken to the police station, where his DNA matched the one collected during a recent robbery, with an apparently similar violent MO. Oh, and allegedly, his stature and physical appearance kinda matches one of the suspects in this case.

 

[Dotta]

Γλυκά Νερά: «Γίνονται έρευνες σε πολλά μέτωπα, υπάρχουν στοιχεία», λέει ο σύζυγος της Καρολάιν
The article itself doesn't say much, but in the video, a police reporter is talking about what's been puzzling the authorities, the fact that there doesn't appear to be any CCTV footage or cellphone activity of the robbers, and that forensic evidence collected from the house is "minimal". He says that there could be important developments and/or twists in the case in the days to come. I'll post a more detailed translation later.

Twists... Hmm, Interesting... Thanks for all the info! You are our Greek correspondent

 

[caylee17799]

Twists... Hmm, Interesting... Thanks for all the info! You are our Greek correspondent

I don't know if @Patrick Jane agrees, but, to me, it sounded like this should be expected, not that this was just a small possibility. It could, of course, just be me and my general skepticism towards the case (and by that I don't mean that I don't believe the original story, just that it wouldn't surprise me if there was more to it).

 

[Dotta]

What made police zone in so quickly on “The Georgian”? Is he a known criminal? If so why was he wandering the streets?

The reward is your answer haha JMO

 

[Orgona]

Γλυκά Νερά: «Γίνονται έρευνες σε πολλά μέτωπα, υπάρχουν στοιχεία», λέει ο σύζυγος της Καρολάιν
The article itself doesn't say much, but in the video, a police reporter is talking about what's been puzzling the authorities, the fact that there doesn't appear to be any CCTV footage or cellphone activity of the robbers, and that forensic evidence collected from the house is "minimal". He says that there could be important developments and/or twists in the case in the days to come. I'll post a more detailed translation later.

Very intriguing.

 

[Patrick Jane]

I don't know if @Patrick Jane agrees, but, to me, it sounded like this should be expected, not that this was just a small possibility. It could, of course, just be me and my general skepticism towards the case (and by that I don't mean that I don't believe the original story, just that it wouldn't surprise me if there was more to it).

That reporter asked a lot of important questions that we don't yet have answers to.

 

[caylee17799]

Γλυκά Νερά: «Γίνονται έρευνες σε πολλά μέτωπα, υπάρχουν στοιχεία», λέει ο σύζυγος της Καρολάιν
So, first of all, a quick transcript of the article:

• B says that he completely trusts the police, and is sure that they have evidence, as well as information, that is important to not be leaked to the public.
• The police hasn't disclosed if B went indeed to the Police HQ for identification purposes, regarding the Georgian who was arrested.
• DNA and prints that have been collected are deemed "usable", however they have not matched anyone in the system yet.

On to the police reporter, he states:

• That there could be important developments and/or twists in the case the following days.
  
• That, in spite of the efforts of the authorities, there doesn't appear to be neither CCTV footage of the robbers approaching/ entering the house, nor cellphone activity or other evidence that could lead to the identification of the three robbers.
• That the amount of forensic evidence collected from the house is minimal.
• That the police are still searching for clues and possible connections among other criminal cases.
• That there is a statement from a private citizen that adds another dimension to the tragic incident- says they'll elaborate more on that as the case progresses.

He then adds that the police are struggling to find answers to the following questions:

• Why did the perps feel the need to suffocate Caroline, by a manner that would require them to apply force to her face for approximately 7-8 minutes, while she would probably lose consciousness and be incapacitated after only 1-2 minutes. There's even a reference to George Floyd and how Chauvin killed him by applying force to his neck for more than 8 minutes. Police reporter points out that, according to descriptions (doesn't say whose), she was fighting back and was trying to defend her baby and that's what lead the perps restrain her in such a violent way. However, there were no defensive wounds/ scratches/evidence of a fight found on her body.
• Why did the perps use ropes and tapes to tie up B in the manner that has been described (head covered in tape, fetal position, with his hands IN FRONT, rather than behind his back), whereas they tied up Caroline's hands behind her back, using only her clothes. Points out that, during robberies, usually the entire household is tied up to chairs, with their hands behind their backs.
• Why did the perps bother to remove the memory cards from the cameras, which is more complex, compared to just removing the devices themselves and taking them along.
• Caroline's TOD has yet to be determined.
• Why didn't the perps cut off the electricity and the phone lines.
• Why did they leave B's working cellphone behind.

 

[Dotta]

I would also add a question about the poor dog. Who would wrestle with a huskie and hang him?

 

[Orgona]

Γλυκά Νερά: «Γίνονται έρευνες σε πολλά μέτωπα, υπάρχουν στοιχεία», λέει ο σύζυγος της Καρολάιν
So, first of all, a quick transcript of the article:

• B says that he completely trusts the police, and is sure that they have evidence, as well as information, that is important to not be leaked to the public.
• The police hasn't disclosed if B went indeed to the Police HQ for identification purposes, regarding the Georgian who was arrested.
• DNA and prints that have been collected are deemed "usable", however they have not matched anyone in the system yet.

On to the police reporter, he states:

• That there could be important developments and/or twists in the case the following days.
  
• That, in spite of the efforts of the authorities, there doesn't appear to be neither CCTV footage of the robbers approaching/ entering the house, nor cellphone activity or other evidence that could lead to the identification of the three robbers.
• That the amount of forensic evidence collected from the house is minimal.
• That the police are still searching for clues and possible connections among other criminal cases.
• That there is a statement from a private citizen that adds another dimension to the tragic incident- says they'll elaborate more on that as the case progresses.

He then adds that the police are struggling to find answers to the following questions:

• Why did the perps feel the need to suffocate Caroline, by a manner that would require them to apply force to her face for approximately 7-8 minutes, while she would probably lose consciousness and be incapacitated after only 1-2 minutes. There's even a reference to George Floyd and how Chauvin killed him by applying force to his neck for more than 8 minutes. Police reporter points out that, according to descriptions (doesn't say whose), she was fighting back and was trying to defend her baby and that's what lead the perps restrain her in such a violent way. However, there were no defensive wounds/ scratches/evidence of a fight found on her body.
• Why did the perps use ropes and tapes to tie up B in the manner that has been described (head covered in tape, fetal position, with his hands IN FRONT, rather than behind his back), whereas they tied up Caroline's hands behind her back, using only her clothes. Points out that, during robberies, usually the entire household is tied up to chairs, with their hands behind their backs.
• Why did the perps bother to remove the memory cards from the cameras, which is more complex, compared to just removing the devices themselves and taking them along.
• Caroline's TOD has yet to be determined.
• Why didn't the perps cut off the electricity and the phone lines.
• Why did they leave B's working cellphone behind.

Wow, this is getting worse by the day.
Indeed why would they restrain B’s hands in front of him? That would allow for his tapes (or some of it) to be removed with his own hands from his head, like from his mouth etc.
If that’s the case, why would then B needed to use his nose to dial any numbers on his phone? He could just use his own fingers to do that, unless his hands were mummy taped? Although, I can believe after a traumatic experience one could do strange things in their state of shock and confusion. But still...

 

[caylee17799]

After listening to the police reporter for the second time (for translation purposes) much more carefully than the first, I can say that his words and his manner of speaking lead me to think that there's definitely something more. I'm trying to picture the crime unfold the way we're told, and I just can't. Some things make no sense. Excessive use of tape and ropes on B, while Caroline, the victim that supposedly puts up more fight, is only tied with clothes. Robbers investing time in turning B into a mummy, removing memory cards from cameras, hanging the dog, suffocating a woman for 7-8 straight minutes, but still being sloppy, tying B's hands to the front, leaving his phone within his reach, not cutting off power/communication, and staying inside way longer than they should have. I don't know what are we supposed to believe anymore. I still wish we're proven wrong.

 

[tayaway]

After listening to the police reporter for the second time (for translation purposes) much more carefully than the first, I can say that his words and his manner of speaking lead me to think that there's definitely something more. I'm trying to picture the crime unfold the way we're told, and I just can't. Some things make no sense. Excessive use of tape and ropes on B, while Caroline, the victim that supposedly puts up more fight, is only tied with clothes. Robbers investing time in turning B into a mummy, removing memory cards from cameras, hanging the dog, suffocating a woman for 7-8 straight minutes, but still being sloppy, tying B's hand to the front, leaving his phone within his reach, not cutting off power/communication, and staying inside way longer than they should have. I don't know what are we supposed to believe anymore. I still wish we're proven wrong.

Sadly, my spidey sense is tingling so much now that ... I really wish that the baby had been left with one of her granmums. I found it strange B took her back to the city. To be wrong would be a gift to her.

 

[Patrick Jane]

After listening to the police reporter for the second time (for translation purposes) much more carefully than the first, I can say that his words and his manner of speaking lead me to think that there's definitely something more. I'm trying to picture the crime unfold the way we're told, and I just can't. Some things make no sense. Excessive use of tape and ropes on B, while Caroline, the victim that supposedly puts up more fight, is only tied with clothes. Robbers investing time in turning B into a mummy, removing memory cards from cameras, hanging the dog, suffocating a woman for 7-8 straight minutes, but still being sloppy, tying B's hands to the front, leaving his phone within his reach, not cutting off power/communication, and staying inside way longer than they should have. I don't know what are we supposed to believe anymore. I still wish we're proven wrong.

I listened again. It's not the best audio because it sounds like he's on a mobile phone (I hate it when they do this) and the connection goes in and out (at one point the news presenter even has to fill in the missing audio). Also we don't have live video of him to assess his body language, which would help us understand the meaning and context better.

Anyway, at 0:18 I hear "ανατροπές" which I think you might have translated as "twists" but I'd go even further and translate this either as "overturnings"* or maybe even (in the context of this case) "refutations."**

*Overturning is used in the sense similar to how you'd say in English that a car is overturned and it is now upside down.
*The primary definition would be overturning, but this word can also mean refutation.

Without more context, I can't say which meaning is more precise, but "overturnings" or maybe even "refutations" would be my translation.

 

[Polly Graf]

Thanks to both Caylee and Patrick for your translation work, you’re both doing a fantastic job!!

I was just starting to think this probably was just a horrible robbery but now I’m suspicious all over again!
I definitely think there’s something wrong with B’s version of events, I’m wondering if he really passed out for 30 minutes…..maybe he wasn’t restrained like that until near the end? It would make more sense if they were smothering her while demanding the money from him.

I’m also wondering how much of a fight Caroline could still have been putting up once her hands had been tied behind her back? I’m sure she did anything she could to protect her babe to start with, but it sounds like they had her under control before she was suffocated.

Are these cameras with the memory cards removed their security cameras? I assume so. So they took the memory cards but not the cameras? Or the other way around?

 

[Patrick Jane]

After listening to the police reporter for the second time (for translation purposes) much more carefully than the first, I can say that his words and his manner of speaking lead me to think that there's definitely something more. I'm trying to picture the crime unfold the way we're told, and I just can't. Some things make no sense. Excessive use of tape and ropes on B, while Caroline, the victim that supposedly puts up more fight, is only tied with clothes. Robbers investing time in turning B into a mummy, removing memory cards from cameras, hanging the dog, suffocating a woman for 7-8 straight minutes, but still being sloppy, tying B's hands to the front, leaving his phone within his reach, not cutting off power/communication, and staying inside way longer than they should have. I don't know what are we supposed to believe anymore. I still wish we're proven wrong.

I understand what you mean when you say that you think there's something more by his manner of speaking.

In an overall sense, to me it sounds like this reporter is saying:

(hold on, folks) because in the coming days we could have some significant developments which could potentially turn this case upside down (i.e. this is what I mean by an "overturning" in my previous post)

and then by asking all those questions, the reporter proceeds to lay out things which seemingly don't add up, without actually saying that they don't add up. But it seems like he's certainly implying it.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Thanks to both Caylee and Patrick for your translation work, you’re both doing a fantastic job!!

I was just starting to think this probably was just a horrible robbery but now I’m suspicious all over again!
I definitely think there’s something wrong with B’s version of events, I’m wondering if he really passed out for 30 minutes…..maybe he wasn’t restrained like that until near the end? It would make more sense if they were smothering her while demanding the money from him.

I’m also wondering how much of a fight Caroline could still have been putting up once her hands had been tied behind her back? I’m sure she did anything she could to protect her babe to start with, but it sounds like they had her under control before she was suffocated.

Are these cameras with the memory cards removed their security cameras? I assume so. So they took the memory cards but not the cameras? Or the other way around?

According to the reporter, they took the memory cards. And he's saying it's more difficult to just remove the memory card. So he's asking, "why would they go to the trouble to do that?"

 

[Polly Graf]

Hmm okay thanks, a bit odd I guess, I’m sure they wouldn’t really want to carry cameras away with them, that’s the sort of detail they might be able to match to other crimes though.

 

[Seni]

According to the reporter, they took the memory cards. And he's saying it's more difficult to just remove the memory card. So he's asking, "why would they go to the trouble to do that?"

Many thanks for the translations by Patrick and Caylee. Have been following since the beginning, admittedly with many doubts and dark thoughts.

Is a camera's memory card card stored within the external camera or with home owner who installed the device?