Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2 *ARREST*

[tayaway]

bbm

Was she blabbing her personal finances to violent criminals or those associated with them? This accusation seems unlikely to me.

Exactly! C apparently had no local friends except her baby, Bruno the puppy, Babis, and the hypnotherapist. Why on earth would she discuss finances with random criminals? How would she, in her isolated state, as EM stated publicly, spending all her time with her baby, come across such sketchy people? They weren't doing construction on her current house, but planning to build a new one on different land.

Here is an Athens Mag link (May 31) to the credentials of the hypnotherapist. Is it a cultural difference in that they refer to her as a psychologist?

A Skai audio interview (May 30) with hypnotherapist EM. It's about 20 minutes long and comments are turned off, so I can't get a read on the vibe.

This is a youtube clip (May 30) of an interview with the first cop that arrived on the scene the morning of C's murder. It's roughly 6 min long and again, comments are turned off.

If any of our Greek speaking members are able to take a listen and offer some interpretation, we'd be grateful!

 

[Tortoise]

“my child, hey, don't speak (about it). You go to get your nails done.”
Ugh. How condescending, degrading and sexist.
Poor Caroline, her so called therapist is publicly suggesting that she is responsible for her murder and also that she is shallow and stupid.

I think the whole narrative speaks to gaslighting Caroline.

It is said she was suffocated because she wouldn't be quiet about a gun being pointed at her baby. She was tortured for up to an hour to reveal the location of more money but he wasn't. He wasn't hurt, not even bashed as a threat to keep quiet or reveal more, no gun held to him, his mouth was covered by tape to silence him (but he could yell into the phone later), the thieves somehow knew that Caroline knew where more money was hidden but what, they didn't think B knew where it was? Or he couldn't be tortured into revealing anything by uncovering his eyes to see them threatening his wife and baby? So that is already building a narrative of Caroline having spoken carelessly to someone, and Caroline being too noisy. But if Caroline's behaviour in the face of armed robbers seems too divergent from his own, he wasn't completely silent, they both "begged the thieves not to harm us". MOO

 

[Dotta]

I think the whole narrative speaks to gaslighting Caroline.

It is said she was suffocated because she wouldn't be quiet about a gun being pointed at her baby. She was tortured for up to an hour to reveal the location of more money but he wasn't. He wasn't hurt, not even bashed as a threat to keep quiet or reveal more, no gun held to him, his mouth was covered by tape to silence him (but he could yell into the phone later), the thieves somehow knew that Caroline knew where more money was hidden but what, they didn't think B knew where it was? Or he couldn't be tortured into revealing anything by uncovering his eyes to see them threatening his wife and baby? So that is already building a narrative of Caroline having spoken carelessly to someone, and Caroline being too noisy. But if Caroline's behaviour in the face of armed robbers seems too divergent from his own, he wasn't completely silent, they both "begged the thieves not to harm us". MOO

Wow! You summed it up perfectly. I had to google "gaslight sb" expression as I have never heard it before - but you live and learn. A new English word in my vocabulary although not fit for my conversational English.

 

[Patrick Jane]

So what do we think is the deal with this hypnotherapist?

Is she being paid for her press interviews? Is she revelling in having five minutes of fame?
Did she really have Caroline's best interests at heart?
I find it very strange a potential key witness that has spoken with the police is off giving press interviews and comments.

I think a certain someone put her up to it to promote a narrative in the media and in the collective mind of the nation. And she's acting in her self-interest. It's free media attention and advertising for her business. She's famous now.

 

[Lola68]

I think a certain someone put her up to it to promote a narrative in the media and in the collective mind of the nation. And she's acting in her self-interest. It's free media attention and advertising for her business. She's famous now.

Presumably she believes what she is telling the media, even if her primary motivation is self-promotion? It's one thing to take advantage of the situation to gain free publicity (albeit morally dubious) but it would be quite another to actively promote a narrative that you have even the slightest of doubts about, whether in part or in whole - and given the number of inconsistencies in B's account of what happened, I'm not sure how anyone could take it at face value.*

*Unless LE is behind her interview (which would seem unlikely - but equally, I can't understand how someone who has provided "important testimony" is being allowed to speak freely to the press)

**Or her testimony is considered important for reasons other than she thinks

 

[Dotta]

I think a certain someone put her up to it to promote a narrative in the media and in the collective mind of the nation. And she's acting in her self-interest. It's free media attention and advertising for her business. She's famous now.

I would rather say INFAMOUS

 

[Patrick Jane]

Presumably she believes what she is telling the media, even if her primary motivation is self-promotion? It's one thing to take advantage of the situation to gain free publicity (albeit morally dubious) but it would be quite another to actively promote a narrative that you have even the slightest of doubts about, whether in part or in whole - and given the number of inconsistencies in B's account of what happened, I'm not sure how anyone could take it at face value.*

*Unless LE is behind her interview (which would seem unlikely - but equally, I can't understand how someone who has provided "important testimony" is being allowed to speak freely to the press)

**Or her testimony is considered important for reasons other than she thinks

Yes, I think she believes in what she's saying. She's acting as a character witness and advocate for B.

 

[Dotta]

One should be very careful with hypnosis. If I ever needed it (hope not) I would trust only highly experienced and skilled psychiatrist. Not a person with a few certificates.

 

[Dotta]

Im sorry to say this but this hypnosis matter (or Hypnotherapy) just gives me the creeps.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Not a central issue but the hypnotherapist, according to the Athens mag link above, has her various diplomas from essentially online schools. These are not university diplomas and the accreditation is not by a scholarly professional body. So I guess her British/American equivalency would be a counselor.

I find her tone condescending too but I think it's also worth noting that 'hey child' doesn't mean what it means in English. It is a Greek phrase and you also go out 'with the children' which means your friends. When the hypno-counselor says 'hey child' it is not equivalent to 'hey little girl'.

Thank you for the clarification on the hypnotherapist's schooling.

And thank you for help with the translation. We need more translators here.

The reason I went the more literal translation ("hey, child") here was because of this context:

Ψυχολόγος Καρολάιν: Μόνο τα καλύτερα έχω να πω για το ζευγάρι - Τι μου έλεγε η κοπέλα

Ηταν ενα 20χρονο παιδί, την έβλεπα σαν παιδί μου, φανταστείτε ότι τα παιδιά μου είναι πάνω από 30 ετών και εκείνη είναι 20.
She was a 20 year old child, and I saw her as my child, imagine that my children are over 30 years old and she's 20.
(my translation) and bolded by me

So in this context my interpretation is that the hypnotherapist is not using the phrase in the sense of "hey, friend" but rather in the sense of "hey, child" because she sees herself in a motherly role, not just a friendly role.

But that's just my interpretation. Translation is an art, not a science.

 

[Dotta]

I always thought that therapists/psychologists mustn't get into personal relations with patients. Caroline was a patient not a child/daughter. It doesnt seem professional to me.

 

[pol100gk]

You are right (and I think you have a great handle on the language, your translations are awesome - my Greek is much more pedestrian). The counselor does situate herself as 'the motherly advisor'. It's very hard to get the cultural context right. In general, Greek culture has a different cultural understanding of age hierarchies, gender, race etc compared to the UK and US today. But my experience of Greece is in a smaller city, not Athens, so this may be different. It's quite common for people to tell you what to do or give unsolicited advice and it's all meant very well and should be taken in that vein.

But the way this is going here is problematic. So the counselor told her not to chat about her life situation to strangers but that doesn't mean that Caroline did so. It is very definitely an attempt to gaslight - it implies that what happened happened because Caroline mentioned to strangers that they are planning to build a house.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

And anyone can say anything. We can lie, we can exaggerate. I can tell you what I told my client, my mother, the cashier at the store. But unless they can verify what I told them, then who knows. Do you just have to accept that what I told you is true?

So much sitting on my hands in this thread, I think they've gone numb.

 

[Dotta]

And anyone can say anything. We can lie, we can exaggerate. I can tell you what I told my client, my mother, the cashier at the store. But unless they can verify what I told them, then who knows. Do you just have to accept that what I told you is true?

So much sitting on my hands in this thread, I think they've gone numb.

And in Poland we sit on "needles and pins"

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

And in Poland we sit on "needles and pins"

Oh yes, we do that here in the US also, but that means something a little different. I am sitting on my hands so I don't say (type) what I want to say (type). Equal to keeping my mouth shut.

I am sitting on pins and needles to hear the next installment - like tense with excitement in anticipation. Equal to waiting for something imminent.

 

[Dotta]

Oh yes, we do that here in the US also, but that means something a little different. I am sitting on my hands so I don't say (type) what I want to say (type). Equal to keeping my mouth shut.

I am sitting on pins and needles to hear the next installment - like tense with excitement in anticipation. Equal to waiting for something imminent.

Oh, I see!!! Thanks. I never sit on my hands then haha

 

[CocoChanel]

MOD NOTE:

The person who apparently acted as a mental health counselor in this case has NOT been named as suspect and may not be sleuthed. Thank you for remembering that so that more posts do not need to be removed.

 

[Lola68]

Just asking again (and sorry if I missed the reply), where is B living right now - and is his daughter with him?

 

[Frannie]

If she was my therapist, famous or infamous, I would no longer be able to trust her and would dump her immediately. I saw her picture with all the certificates on the wall, not impressed, you need only one. The others are to impress and she is making a serious mistake in blabbing to the world, not impressing too many people but the press loves it.

 

[Tortoise]

Just asking again (and sorry if I missed the reply), where is B living right now - and is his daughter with him?

I just found @Patrick Jane 's post about this in the previous thread.

Based on the media reports:

We know that he authorized the cleaners to come and thoroughly clean the house. And we've seen video of this.
We know that he's moved back in.
He's apparently told the press that he intends to move out. When is that? A week? A month? We don't know. We'll see when that happens.

Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021