NY - Garrett Phillips, 12, murdered in his Potsdam home, 24 Oct 2011

[CaliMar]

just watched the documentary " Who killed Garrett Philips?" , my gut reaction is this didn't seem like a homicide, what evidence was there of it being a murder and not an accident? I would really like to read the autopsy report to see what was found, together with the fact that if it was a murder how was it possible to jump out of a window and escape with not being seen given the fact the neighbours were out there? also how did they get in without being seen?

where was the mother and the brother ? why were they not in the property at the time and where had they been during that day? so many questions

Just began following this thread, but has it been released what Garrett indicated to police just before he died? The investigator seemed to hint at one point that they spoke to Garrett and that he may have said something.

 

[Savemecastiel]

Bump

 

[emelie]

Ok I think Nick is 100% innocent. Have said that, did I miss where they tried to match the muddy shoe print? Like the size or make of the shoe print? Did they look for mud in Nick's car? They're throwing the choking game out there, they should have asked the school to be on the lookout for any kid limping. Just my thoughts‍‍

 

[kimmie0313]

I just recently watched the documentary. Heartbreaking from every angle.
I saw it mentioned in this thread that there was a bra found at the scene. Where can I find info on this?
Thanks!

 

[tiffkinsadder]

I'm watching Deadline: Crime With Tamron Hall
"Home Alone"
S5 Ep2 9/10/17

airing on ID now,

What could the motive be?

 

[tiffkinsadder]

I'm watching Deadline: Crime With Tamron Hall
"Home Alone"
S5 Ep2 9/10/17

airing on ID now,

What could the motive be?

At the end of the program, the current DA said the case is closed, there are no other suspects. Why is the case closed?

 

[Funky funky]

At the end of the program, the current DA said the case is closed, there are no other suspects. Why is the case closed?

Possibly because they think they’ve got their man?
This case still bothers me, I feel NH got away with murder.

 

[kimmie0313]

Possibly because they think they’ve got their man?
This case still bothers me, I feel NH got away with murder.

This case really bothers me as well. I think of it often.
Honestly, I really don’t know what to think.

 

[Podengo]

As others have said, that ankle injury looked old. It also looked forgettable. I can easily see forgetting how it happened or not remembering exactly which piece of furniture caused it. and fluid can stay ina joint for months. I sprained my ankle three months ago and it is still a little poofy.
I can’t imagine a killer hanging out in a house for that long with people knocking on the door. This so the only thing that makes me wonder if it could be peers. I think an adult would have been out of the window ASAP.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

Just recently saw the excellent 2-part HBO documentary on this GP murder; I also watched some of the 20/20 episode(s), and am now watching Dateline's "The Accused". Horrific crime. I need to do some more research on the case. Here are my initial thoughts on the case; these are primary thoughts from the HBO doc.:

The unlawful detainment & subsequent arrest of NH:

-This was appalling & stomach-turning. The authorities obviously focused on NH to the exclusion of anyone else not just due to his being the ex-bf of TC, but also because of his race. The scene when they detained him at the station was obviously illegal. I.e., he wasn't being arrested but he also wasn't allowed to leave, had his phone taken away from him, and was strip-searched?! Well, he may as well have been arrested at that point. I agree the strip-search was a way to humiliate him & show him that they had him under their control.

- There was 0 physical evidence tying NH to the crime itself & the crime scene.

-If NH actually "jumped" out of the back window after committing the crime, how come no one reported seeing him do this - nor did anyone report seeing him running through the area at this time?! This crime happened at 5:00pm-ish in the afternoon, not the middle of the night. The outdoor light was good, people were out & about and some one should have seen him if he had been in the vicinity of the apartment & running away on foot, etc.

-It was appalling - though not at all surprising - that the guy changing the tire outside the apt. was going to change his testimony & say that he had seen NH (or someone that looked like NH) in the window - despite his 2011 statement saying that he & his then-gf hadn't seen anyone, just heard noises.

-I discount that ankle "abrasion", nor did I notice NH limping at any point during the footage from the soccer game, the interview at the station, etc.

-Though NH was declared innocent, his life was irreparably ruined by his being arrested for the crime. He lost a very good job (coach at one of the local colleges), and his reputation has been forever smeared/damaged. I'm sure he also incurred a huge amount of legal costs re: his defense, etc. No one will ever be able to make this up to him.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

Part 2 of my initial thoughts:

So, who actually did kill GP? Some possible theories:

-When watching the doc., at first I thought TC's previous ex-bf JJ did this, and then framed NH because he was angry that NH "stole" (in his mind) TC away from him; there was clearly also racism involved in his negative feelings towards NH. And, given that TC had said that JJ had displayed anger towards her kids - I initially wouldn't have ruled him out as a viable suspect. That being said, the DNA under GP's fingernails didn't match JJ's.

-There were some initial thoughts that GP was involved in some "rough-housing" with some other kids/one other kid?! in the apartment & that his death was an accident. Possible. But, note that when he was seen on the security camera footage riding his Ripsticker home from school, he was alone & wasn't with any other kids. So, unless these other kids showed up at the apartment and/or at his door right after he got home from school, I don't suspect any other kids were involved.

-To me, the most likely possibility is that GP surprised someone in the apt. when he got home from school, that person panicked, and killed GP to keep him from being a witness & going to the authorities. This person may have been a burglar. Or, as has been suggested - maybe someone who had a sick fixation on TC & was rifling through her belongings, etc.

However, whoever this alleged person was - why did no one see him/her come out of the window after the crime?!

 

[mrazda71]

@Sonny Crockett ... Exactly my thoughts when I watched it and researched.

Don't know if it was my comment you're referencing but, I'm pretty sure I said that I thought the killer may be someone with a thing for the Mother (I have a vague recollection of some documentary or other saying that her underwear/bras? Were scattered Round the room ... or a plain old thief/burglar, I remember reading that there was a significant drug problem close by so not outside the realms of possibility.

 

[Funky funky]

I still believe NH killed Garrett. I’ve also researched a lot about this.
I went back to this case lately and regarding the witness - there is evidence online to suggest that it was actually his father that saw NH. I don’t want to get into in here due to TOS but a bit of digging will lead you to a first hand account.
I also read some statement analysis which only reinforced my belief that NH shows signs of deception.
This is a very sad case and sadly Garrett won’t see justice. I don’t doubt that NH experienced racism but I think that’s deflecting from the situation too.

Let’s put race aside for a minute - if not NH then who else? He was at the car park, he blamed Garrett for the break up, there is the ankle injury (which I know some find contentious) his daughter’s differing statements/ texts re dinner. And also that Garrett’s mother said he had a key to the apartment. Plus la witness who said he saw him. Far too many coincidences IMO.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

Thanks for the post - I'm always interested in hearing opposing views.

First of all, who is the witness you mention? Whose father was this?! I didn't hear about anyone that claimed that they actually saw NH at the scene of the crime. I discount the guy changing his tire in the parking lot, since it's obvious he was going to change his story years later & lie on the witness stand - probably for $.

I'm doing more research on the case, and just finished the Dateline "The Accused" episodes re: this case. "The Accused" is less pro-defense, and does go over info. that wasn't in the HBO doc. However, I still think NH is innocent.

To those who still think NH committed this crime:

1) Note that there is 0 physical evidence (blood, fingerprints, definitive DNA, etc. ) tying him to the crime. Also, again - no one saw NH go into TC's apartment building, or leave the building.

2) The abrasion on his ankle looks minor. Also, again - I didn't see any evidence of him limping in any footage right after the crime - as the authorities attested.

As far as who else could have done this, again - it could have been someone that GP surprised in the apt. when he went home that day. This person may not be anyone that has been mentioned in connection to the case - up to this point. It could have been a random burglar/drug addict looking for cash/valuables; it could have been someone stalking and/or fixated on TC, etc.

Something else to think about: If NH did indeed commit this crime, why did he bring a civil suit against the Postdam authorities for his horrible treatment when being questioned right after the crime?! Sure - whether he were innocent or guilty, I can see why he would state he was innocent & call his lawyer, etc. - as he did. However, if he were indeed guilty why bring the civil suit - which just caused the Postdam PD's lawyer to question him in detail about the crime (which I suspect he knew would happen) & which ultimately led to his being arrested & having to go to trial.

I.e.: Note that prior to the interview NH had with the PD's lawyer in early 2014, the authorities were not 100% sure it was GP's car in the parking lot of the high school - leaving after GP went by on his Ripstick. So, if he were guilty - he was just digging his own grave by going ahead with the civil suit against the PD, and having to confirm the things they had suspected before - but weren't sure about.

Conversely, if he is innocent (which I believe) his bringing the civil suit makes perfect sense - given the way he was treated.

Just my .02

 

[Funky funky]

Thanks for the post - I'm always interested in hearing opposing views.

First of all, who is the witness you mention? Whose father was this?! I didn't hear about anyone that claimed that they actually saw NH at the scene of the crime. I discount the guy changing his tire in the parking lot, since it's obvious he was going to change his story years later & lie on the witness stand - probably for $.

I'm doing more research on the case, and just finished the Dateline "The Accused" episodes re: this case. "The Accused" is less pro-defense, and does go over info. that wasn't in the HBO doc. However, I still think NH is innocent.

To those who still think NH committed this crime:

1) Note that there is 0 physical evidence (blood, fingerprints, definitive DNA, etc. ) tying him to the crime. Also, again - no one saw NH go into TC's apartment building, or leave the building.

2) The abrasion on his ankle looks minor. Also, again - I didn't see any evidence of him limping in any footage right after the crime - as the authorities attested.

As far as who else could have done this, again - it could have been someone that GP surprised in the apt. when he went home that day. This person may not be anyone that has been mentioned in connection to the case - up to this point. It could have been a random burglar/drug addict looking for cash/valuables; it could have been someone stalking and/or fixated on TC, etc.

Something else to think about: If NH did indeed commit this crime, why did he bring a civil suit against the Postdam authorities for his horrible treatment when being questioned right after the crime?! Sure - whether he were innocent or guilty, I can see why he would state he was innocent & call his lawyer, etc. - as he did. However, if he were indeed guilty why bring the civil suit - which just caused the Postdam PD's lawyer to question him in detail about the crime (which I suspect he knew would happen) & which ultimately led to his being arrested & having to go to trial.

I.e.: Note that prior to the interview NH had with the PD's lawyer in early 2014, the authorities were not 100% sure it was GP's car in the parking lot of the high school - leaving after GP went by on his Ripstick. So, if he were guilty - he was just digging his own grave by going ahead with the civil suit against the PD, and having to confirm the things they had suspected before - but weren't sure about.

Conversely, if he is innocent (which I believe) his bringing the civil suit makes perfect sense - given the way he was treated.

Just my .02

I will try and find the article about the witness. Not sure if I can link it here, if not I will DM you?
As far as I can remember the witness was the father of the person who lied. The witness couldn’t come forward so he told his son to say he saw NH. (I think the son may have been in the military?)
But even before this, I believed NH to be guilty anyway.
I get what you’re saying about the civil case but unfortunately people lie and will pursue something if even guilty ( see Lance Armstrong for example). NH would also perhaps be entitled to monetary compensation which might be an incentive. I don’t doubt he was treated badly due to his race, etc. I totally understand why he would be angry - I’m the daughter of a Jamaican myself but I don’t want the race issue to cloud my judgement on this.
Some of the other documentaries on this are very good. I felt the HBO one was biased.
Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[mrazda71]

I will try and find the article about the witness. Not sure if I can link it here, if not I will DM you?
As far as I can remember the witness was the father of the person who lied. The witness couldn’t come forward so he told his son to say he saw NH. (I think the son may have been in the military?)
But even before this, I believed NH to be guilty anyway.
I get what you’re saying about the civil case but unfortunately people lie and will pursue something if even guilty ( see Lance Armstrong for example). NH would also perhaps be entitled to monetary compensation which might be an incentive. I don’t doubt he was treated badly due to his race, etc. I totally understand why he would be angry - I’m the daughter of a Jamaican myself but I don’t want the race issue to cloud my judgement on this.
Some of the other documentaries on this are very good. I felt the HBO one was biased.
Thank you for your thoughts.

Why wouldn't a witness be 'able to come forward' in the case of a murdered child?

I don't see any reason you can't link or direct to this information by the way.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

No need to DM me with the info., but Thanks for the offer. Per the details you gave, I think I know who this was: The young man who was with his gf & changing his tire in the parking lot in 2011 - is the same one the prosecution was going to pay to fly out from Hawaii & claim that NH was the man he saw in the window during the 2016 trial. IIRC this man was in the military in 2016. His name was mentioned in the HBO doc., but it escapes me now. So, this young man's father was the witness?! Surprised that he didn't come forward ATT - i.e., right after the crime took place.

Going along with this - even if someone can half-convince me that NH had motive to kill GP because he felt that GP was the reason TC broke up with him....there is still 0 physical evidence to point to NH as being the killer. Circumstantial evidence isn't good enough. I am someone who feels that unless clear & solid physical evidence (blood, fiber, fingerprints, hair, solid DNA, etc.) and/or clear video evidence can point to someone's guilt, they shouldn't be convicted of a crime.

 

[Funky funky]

Why wouldn't a witness be 'able to come forward' in the case of a murdered child?

I don't see any reason you can't link or direct to this information by the way.

I’m not sure if we are permitted to link stuff from other forums here?

 

[Funky funky]

No need to DM me with the info., but Thanks for the offer. Per the details you gave, I think I know who this was: The young man who was with his gf & changing his tire in the parking lot in 2011 - is the same one the prosecution was going to pay to fly out from Hawaii & claim that NH was the man he saw in the window during the 2016 trial. IIRC this man was in the military in 2016. His name was mentioned in the HBO doc., but it escapes me now. So, this young man's father was the witness?! Surprised that he didn't come forward ATT - i.e., right after the crime took place.

Going along with this - even if someone can half-convince me that NH had motive to kill GP because he felt that GP was the reason TC broke up with him....there is still 0 physical evidence to point to NH as being the killer. Circumstantial evidence isn't good enough. I am someone who feels that unless clear & solid physical evidence (blood, fiber, fingerprints, hair, solid DNA, etc.) and/or clear video evidence can point to someone's guilt, they shouldn't be convicted of a crime.

I should mention however that I feel the verdict was the correct one as there was reasonable doubt.
Sometimes all the prosecution have is circumstantial evidence and I think it’s better to use that than nothing. It was used to perfect effect in the McStay case.

 

[Funky funky]

Why wouldn't a witness be 'able to come forward' in the case of a murdered child?

I don't see any reason you can't link or direct to this information by the way.

The reason Mary Rain had her law license suspended for 2 years is supposedly connected to the witness in this case. The eye witness gave a statement that he saw NH at 5.10 jumping from the window wearing latex gloves. I do not want to violate TOS my lining it here but it’s available if you search online.