MA MA - Molly Bish, 16, Warren, 27 Jun 2000

Molly Bish murder suspect’s family demands Worcester DA provide proof — or stop accusing him of horrific crime - The Boston Globe
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This photo released by the Office of Worcester County District Attorney shows Francis "Frank" P. Sumner Sr., of Spencer, Mass., who died in 2016.

''The family of Francis P. Sumner Sr. demanded Friday that Worcester District Attorney Joseph Early 2d immediately detail evidence linking him to the murder of Molly Bish — or stop mentioning his name and end the emotional harm felt by surviving relatives.

Sumner’s half-sister, who asked to be identified only as Jackie, said in a telephone interview that she and the extended Sumner family provided DNA samples to Early’s office 2 1/2 years ago. Sumner, who died in 2016, provided a sample about four years after Bish, 16, was kidnapped and murdered in Warren in 2000.''

Before he died, little interest, But now that hes dead, almost at the top of the list as a suspect. I always question when they solve/name suspect on a case by saying the suspect and or killer is dead. Up to 2016 they did not have enough evidence to present to a grand jury to indict for the murder, But now after hes been dead for 5 years hes practically at the top of the list. I agree with the family. Prove it or stop talking about it.
 
Agree with this completely. I.e., I wonder if he would have even been named as a "person of interest" if he had still been alive. I.e., it's very easy to talk about someone having committed a crime if they're dead & can't say anything in their defense, etc.

Sure, maybe he did do this. But, can they prove it?!
 
I don't think Sumner was investigated in regards to Molly's case before his death in 2016. Heather Bish said one of Sumner's family members gave her his name as a possible suspect three years ago and Heather notified police, according to this article. Since then, more tips about Sumner have came in and they have been corroborated.
 
Would be nice if it panned out, but like so many so often you have to wait to see if it goes anywhere.

Many many times a name pops up because someone feels someone "could be" responsible because they committed another crime sometimes its even similar, but it proves to be a dead end, even if the individual matches the composite (look at the New Delphi suspect for example)

So though were all hopeful each new lead leads to a conviction, I try not to get my hopes up, until theres evidence.

In cases, like this the individual responsible has often already been interviewed by police, but for some reason either slipped through the cracks, or they didnt have anything to physically connect them to it so they get put on the back burner , I would not be stunned if the person responsible was looked at but something was missing to tie them to it directly
 
I don't think Sumner was investigated in regards to Molly's case before his death in 2016. Heather Bish said one of Sumner's family members gave her his name as a possible suspect three years ago and Heather notified police, according to this article. Since then, more tips about Sumner have came in and they have been corroborated.

I agree with this; I think it's very likely that whoever had enough suspicions about him to tip him in was waiting until he was dead to avoid interpersonal strife related to the fallout, likely within the family unit.
 
Bish family hopes for resolution after DA releases name of new person of interest

More at link
“Our hearts are heavy with our loss and the reality of what may have happened to our daughter, but we are hopeful that there will be resolution and that no one else will ever be harmed,” a statement from the Bish family reads. “We are proud of Molly’s legacy of keeping children safe, advocating for families, and we feel it most strongly right now, reflected in our community. Thank you to those brave people who provided tips and information to the detectives.”
 
Molly Bish murder case: Seeing photo of man named person of interest in death is ‘jarring,’ sister says

Much more at link
When Massachusetts State Police detectives knocked on Heather Bish’s door on Wednesday, they were there to give back dozens of items held in evidence related to the abduction and killing of her 16-year-old sister, Molly Bish.

The detectives handed over Molly’s pocketbook, old cassette tapes and Bath and Body Works products. But they also wanted to show Heather something else: a picture.

It was an image of Francis “Frank” P. Sumner Sr., a Spencer man who died in 2016 and has been newly named as a person of interest in Molly’s disappearance and death.

“It’s been a whirlwind few days for sure,” Heather told MassLive in a phone interview Friday morning.

If LE is giving back items from the investigation, they must be rather confident. This person of interest lived in towns all east of Warren, MA until his death in 2016. I was surprised by that. I really thought this person would live in a town somewhere near Ware Road, the road where Whiskey Hill is located off of. But people make different locational decisions for all sorts of different reasons.

Maybe this man was waiting out on the beach that day June 27, 2000, pretending to be fishing or walking around? Then he approaches her after she starts to set up her lifeguard stuff and abducts her into the white car waiting in the cemetery. Having access to different automobiles would certainly lend credibility to that theory too.

The picture of this man holding the cigarette is eerily similar to the sketch created. It only goes to show that in any case is could literally be anyone who knows about a particular place(Commins Pond in Warren, MA for example). You can only theorize so much before you are overanalyzing every detail. In this particular case, the sketch was always the best lead.

We have to wait and see how this person became a person of interest in the Molly Bish case. I am still a little confused because one news story I read used the word "suspect" to describe this man and others are using the words "person of interest."
 
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He absolutely does but so did the other 2 main suspects that were released to the media
That's true. I think Sumner resembles it the most though. In my opinion, the other suspects don't have the face shape of the suspect in the sketch. However, it's circumstantial and just a matter of opinion. I'm really hoping that Molly's case will be solved soon. She deserves justice.
 
That's true. I think Sumner resembles it the most though. In my opinion, the other suspects don't have the face shape of the suspect in the sketch. However, it's circumstantial and just a matter of opinion. I'm really hoping that Molly's case will be solved soon. She deserves justice.

Remember that composites can look like a lot of people, we had a little girl appearently abducted near here, (still missing actually) but the composite looked like at least 5 people I saw that day alone .

Some are so general they almost become useless, sadly

One individual that was questioned in Mollys disappearance used to like to make his wife dress up in young girls clothing, especially bathing suits, and blonde wigs to enact out rape fantasies with her, he also had a rap sheet a mile thick and he lived and worked nearby as well, he was test driving a friends car that matches the description of the car seen at Comins by Mollys mom the day prior to her disappearance, hes now deceased however .

Most child abduction murders are usually in their late 20's to mid 30's at the time , this guy Im speaking of would have been 31 I believe

That is where I would start,
 
Before he died, little interest, But now that hes dead, almost at the top of the list as a suspect. I always question when they solve/name suspect on a case by saying the suspect and or killer is dead. Up to 2016 they did not have enough evidence to present to a grand jury to indict for the murder, But now after hes been dead for 5 years hes practically at the top of the list. I agree with the family. Prove it or stop talking about it.

I agree completely , i dont think they should ever name a suspect until theres evidence, even if the accused is deceased.

So many times, people are arrested , paraded in front of the camera, their lives are torn open and devoured by the media , the public, their name and reputation is destroyed, before a charge has even been filed .

And its not like the media and the public are going to help that individual repair the damage done, and rebuild their life either.

A good example is Lanny Bierbrodt, being smeared as a killer after he was named as a suspect in Tammy Zywicki's death, this came via hearsay!

Now he was no saint and a former convicted bank robber, but he served his time, and due to that he and his family were harassed , for years., the man died under a cloud of suspicion, however just a few months ago, he was excluded as a suspect, by DNA analysis .

Its the duty of LE to protect the innocent even until they are proven guilty, No suspect should ever be named unless theres evidence enough to indict.
 
Regarding Sumner and the composite, my thinking is that the features of the face don't look a ton like him (though also not being so far off that you could rule him out); however, the hairline stands out as being an unusual feature that matches.

I have read that when composite sketches are made, the artists are trained to, if possible, emphasize particular features that are distinctive and well-described by the witness, so that even if some features are off or generic, a friend or family member who knows someone well can often identify the resemblance between the sketch and that person.

One example of this is a recently resolved case of a 75 year old woman who was raped and murdered in her home. When police released a composite sketch, the victim's daughter first thought the face as a whole looked totally unfamiliar but realized later that the chin in particular reminded her of one of her own ex-boyfriends. He ended up being linked to the crime through DNA (as well as another murder and another rape).

Murderer Identified After Woman Sees Witness Sketch And Realizes It's Her College Ex-Boyfriend | Oxygen Official Site
And: EU graduate, former Afton cop charged with Missouri murders
 
RSBM

Its the duty of LE to protect the innocent even until they are proven guilty, No suspect should ever be named unless theres evidence enough to indict.

The above bits that I've bolded are completely contrdictory.

If the goal is to protect all until they are proven guilty, then even evidence enough to indict doesn't work.

Many innocent people have been indicted and some of them even found guilty, then later found to be cleared via way of DNA evidence.

If the police truely need to protect any suspect until they are proven guilty, then that means a court trial and a jury verdict needs to happen before you'd know who they were - and at that - only if they were found guilty. That does not fall in line with the auspices of open and fair trials a right which we all have.

LE not being able to state who is a suspect also would have severe negative impact upon family members and immediate associates (boy friends etc), especially males, of any victim as they are often the first to be looked at by LE, the public, and this very forum. preventing LE from naming actual suspects therefore would cause these immediate associates, again mostly males and most often also innocent, to remain under public scrutiny by people who post on this site and the public in general until/if an indictment is handed down against someone else.

There's a case on here just a couple of days ago where a husband has been treated as the de facto suspect in his wife's murder for 30 years. They had a child. ZERO contact with her family for 30 years and osctracized from their community because no other suspect was named (nor was he named as one), but that's how it happens when no suspect is named. DNA has just proven it was not he who killed her. 30 years of he and his son - also her son - being ostracized by community and wife's family.

I can't even imagine.

If someone is a suspect, then they are a suspect. Full stop. If LEO are naming an individual as a "suspect" vice as a mere "POI", then they usually have the goods to back that up ... and it's not their job to release those goods to you and I and Joe Public.

Those goods are for court and in this case, for the victims family. The mere fact that LE is returning evidence back into the posession of her family tells me that they know more than we do and that it will no longer be required for any trial. They've obviously got the evidence to back that up.

That tells me that were this guy still alive, they've now got enough evidence to have indicted him as they now no longer need to keep it for the trial of any other person. I think that meets your second criteria from the part I've bloded in your RSBM quote above.
 
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The above bits that I've bolded are completely contrdictory.

If the goal is to protect all until they are proven guilty, then even evidence enough to indict doesn't work.

Many innocent people have been indicted and some of them even found guilty, then later found to be cleared via way of DNA evidence.

If the police truely need to protect any suspect until they are proven guilty, then that means a court trial and a jury verdict needs to happen before you'd know who they were - and at that - only if they were found guilty. That does not fall in line with the auspices of open and fair trials a right which we all have.

LE not being able to state who is a suspect also would have severe negative impact upon family members and immediate associates (boy friends etc), especially males, of any victim as they are often the first to be looked at by LE, the public, and this very forum. preventing LE from naming actual suspects therefore would cause these immediate associates, again mostly males and most often also innocent, to remain under public scrutiny by people who post on this site and the public in general until/if an indictment is handed down against someone else.

There's a case on here just a couple of days ago where a husband has been treated as the de facto suspect in his wife's murder for 30 years. They had a child. ZERO contact with her family for 30 years and osctracized from their community because no other suspect was named (nor was he named as one), but that's how it happens when no suspect is named. DNA has just proven it was not he who killed her. 30 years of he and his son - also her son - being ostracized by community and wife's family.

I can't even imagine.

If someone is a suspect, then they are a suspect. Full stop. If LEO are naming an individual as a "suspect" vice as a mere "POI", then they usually have the goods to back that up ... and it's not their job to release those goods to you and I and Joe Public.

Those goods are for court and in this case, for the victims family. The mere fact that LE is returning evidence back into the posession of her family tells me that they know more than we do and that it will no longer be required for any trial. They've obviously got the evidence to back that up.

That tells me that were this guy still alive, they've now got enough evidence to have indicted him as they now no longer need to keep it for the trial of any other person. I think that meets your second criteria from the part I've bloded in your RSBM quote above.


Im not sure what you are angling for , Once a indictment is made the name of the individual will be released, that indicates evidence against , Its the duty of those in LE to protect the innocent, up until the moment they are found guilty thats my point.

Ive seen evidence returned to families before without a trial, thats not indicitive of anything, it depends on the type of evidence, as well.

So my point is before everyone condemns a guy for murder in the court of public opinion, lets all wait and see what the evidence shows.
 
The above bits that I've bolded are completely contrdictory.

If the goal is to protect all until they are proven guilty, then even evidence enough to indict doesn't work.

Many innocent people have been indicted and some of them even found guilty, then later found to be cleared via way of DNA evidence.

If the police truely need to protect any suspect until they are proven guilty, then that means a court trial and a jury verdict needs to happen before you'd know who they were - and at that - only if they were found guilty. That does not fall in line with the auspices of open and fair trials a right which we all have.

LE not being able to state who is a suspect also would have severe negative impact upon family members and immediate associates (boy friends etc), especially males, of any victim as they are often the first to be looked at by LE, the public, and this very forum. preventing LE from naming actual suspects therefore would cause these immediate associates, again mostly males and most often also innocent, to remain under public scrutiny by people who post on this site and the public in general until/if an indictment is handed down against someone else.

There's a case on here just a couple of days ago where a husband has been treated as the de facto suspect in his wife's murder for 30 years. They had a child. ZERO contact with her family for 30 years and osctracized from their community because no other suspect was named (nor was he named as one), but that's how it happens when no suspect is named. DNA has just proven it was not he who killed her. 30 years of he and his son - also her son - being ostracized by community and wife's family.

I can't even imagine.

If someone is a suspect, then they are a suspect. Full stop. If LEO are naming an individual as a "suspect" vice as a mere "POI", then they usually have the goods to back that up ... and it's not their job to release those goods to you and I and Joe Public.

Those goods are for court and in this case, for the victims family. The mere fact that LE is returning evidence back into the posession of her family tells me that they know more than we do and that it will no longer be required for any trial. They've obviously got the evidence to back that up.

That tells me that were this guy still alive, they've now got enough evidence to have indicted him as they now no longer need to keep it for the trial of any other person. I think that meets your second criteria from the part I've bloded in your RSBM quote above.

It is hard to understand your argument. In the 1996 Atlanta bombing case involving Richard Jewell, there was a lot of private talk among investigators that they were looking into him as being a possible suspect. Then the information that he was being looking into got out in the open. The press picked it up. He became a front page news story and the investigation became very public in nature. It did not look like the public investigation helped him. People seem to continue to look at a person as a possible suspect sometimes, even if they are cleared by LE. This is especially true if the real criminal has not been found.

In the Molly Bish case it is hard to come to any conclusion about what LE is doing. I cannot understand why they would put out the name of a dead man as a possible POI/suspect unless, like you wrote, they were sure. But there have been numerous POI's in Molly Bish's case and some of them resembled the sketch too. Maybe they want to try to generate more interest in the case after so many years?

My guess is that we will hopefully find out as time goes on why this current POI is being considered in the Molly Bish case.
 
It is hard to understand your argument. In the 1996 Atlanta bombing case involving Richard Jewell, there was a lot of private talk among investigators that they were looking into him as being a possible suspect. Then the information that he was being looking into got out in the open. The press picked it up. He became a front page news story and the investigation became very public in nature. It did not look like the public investigation helped him. People seem to continue to look at a person as a possible suspect sometimes, even if they are cleared by LE. This is especially true if the real criminal has not been found.

In the Molly Bish case it is hard to come to any conclusion about what LE is doing. I cannot understand why they would put out the name of a dead man as a possible POI/suspect unless, like you wrote, they were sure. But there have been numerous POI's in Molly Bish's case and some of them resembled the sketch too. Maybe they want to try to generate more interest in the case after so many years?

My guess is that we will hopefully find out as time goes on why this current POI is being considered in the Molly Bish case.

There's been numerous POIs in Molly's case.

This one has been named as a suspect, vice a mere POI, and there is a difference.
 
Im not sure what you are angling for , Once a indictment is made the name of the individual will be released, that indicates evidence against , Its the duty of those in LE to protect the innocent, up until the moment they are found guilty thats my point.

Ive seen evidence returned to families before without a trial, thats not indicitive of anything, it depends on the type of evidence, as well.

So my point is before everyone condemns a guy for murder in the court of public opinion, lets all wait and see what the evidence shows.

I'm not angling for anything. The bits I bolded from your statement are two different standards. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty ... not innocent until indicted. Which one is the one you want them named at?

1) "Until proven guilty" or
2) "until enough evidence to indict".

Then I laid out the reasons why IMO he met your second standard. You don't agree. That's fine. We'll have to agree to disagree that they've got enough of the goods to return that evidence to family, name him as an actual suspect and announce it to the press and public etc.

I see no other reason for them to do that; Just for the heck of it maybe?
 
I'm not angling for anything. The bits I bolded from your statement are two different standards. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty ... not innocent until indicted. Which one is the one you want them named at?

1) "Until proven guilty" or
2) "until enough evidence to indict".

Then I laid out the reasons why IMO he met your second standard. You don't agree. That's fine. We'll have to agree to disagree that they've got enough of the goods to return that evidence to family, name him as an actual suspect and announce it to the press and public etc.

I see no other reason for them to do that; Just for the heck of it maybe?

I wasn't arguing Im sorry if it came off like that, I should've clarified, all are protected and presumed innocent until proven guilty, however what i meant was that theres no way to stop the name from being released to the public after they are indicted. I wasn't saying they're innocent until they are indicted. Sorry for the confusion.

From time to time, in cold cases, you'll see a random individual pop up from time to time, sometimes its due to a new look at the case, sometimes, its because someone "suddenly" remembered something , sometimes, its simply because someone decided to take a flier at someone they think could be responsible .

Theres an old dichotomy on the behavioral realm, that there are 2 points of view , the psychological, and the behavioral. (Ill show how this ties in later)

The Psychological looks at potential actions through a diagnoses, or group of diagnoses, and projects potential outward from there, for example if you have an individual who is schizophrenic, who has committed violent acts , you can surmise that this individual is certainly capable of commiting murder (for ex) but that individual may not have at all, but they could be capable of it.

The Behavioral looks at the actions themselves, of an individual and projects a personality "profile" from there. Though an individual may have a clinical diagnoses, we are looking at what was done at the crime scene, and inferring a personaily from there. For EX, If we see a crime scene where an individual was blugeoned about the face and neck beyond what was needed to kill the victim , we can infer rage etc..

Now that reason I mentioned that is because in some cases, in an investigation, and im sure we have all seen this , a potential suspect will pop up because LE or whomever feels, this individual "Could" be responsible, because they have a criminal past etc.. Even if the criminal acts themselves are similar, in many cases, it turns out not to be the individual responsible

In Mollys case, could a guy who held a held a young girl captive in his home, and raped here be responsible ?.... Absolutely , is it probable?, that depends on the evidence

Sometimes, a new suspect shakes up the case, new things come forward , new eyes look at it , perhaps someone decides, they have been sitting on info long enough, and they want to clear their conscience

And sadly, in some cases, I feel the agency is just anxious to close a case for the family, these cases, haunt people, the mystery surrounding them leads to fear and uncertainty, its the not knowing that is the worst, not only for the victims family, but for the general public as well

The Adam Walsh case, is a good example of that , many experts feel Otis Toole, (who falsely claimed to have committed hundreds or murders) was not responsible for the boys death. Even though he admitted to it, there was little to no physical evidence to suggest Toole was responsible, it seems like LE , and John Walsh rolled with it because its a form of closure .

It would be great if this was the guy and the case, could finally be closed
 

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