Identified! CA - Long Beach - WhtMale 15-19 - 1392UMCA - 'Paid' stamp on hand- Jun'78 - Kenneth Nevada Williams

[Feme98]

I found a video on YouTube, it’s about the disco dancing from 1979.

At about the 1 minute mark, it appears that those shoes are the same type as those on our UID.

I think that perhaps he went to a club (possibly Ripples).

I don’t know if Redwing shoes were disco/fancy shoes.

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

I found a video on YouTube, it’s about the disco dancing from 1979.

At about the 1 minute mark, it appears that those shoes are the same type as those on our UID.

I think that perhaps he went to a club (possibly Ripples).

I don’t know if Redwing shoes were disco/fancy shoes.

Could be a reference to FRONT OF RIPPLES on Kraft's scorecard.

 

[Feme98]

Could be a reference to FRONT OF RIPPLES on Kraft's scorecard.

Indeed! Do you know if it says a date? Like June 2nd 1978

 

[Springrain]

I think they do have DNA available in this case, from the sock. That's probably what they mean.

Do you mean DNA from the sock found in 1155UMCA's anus or a sock the other Wilmington John Doe was wearing?

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but Randy Kraft proclaims his innocence. I wish he would just say who his UID victims are.

Honestly, Randy Kraft is a definite but he might genuinely not know who this guy is if he just met him at the bar. But I can also see him lying because he thinks he can manipulate people into thinking he's innocent, even though he was pulled over with an entire corpse in his car.

 

[Feme98]

Do you mean DNA from the sock found in 1155UMCA's anus or a sock the other Wilmington John Doe was wearing?



Honestly, Randy Kraft is a definite *** but he might genuinely not know who this guy is if he just met him at the bar. But I can also see him lying because he thinks he can manipulate people into thinking he's innocent, even though he was pulled over with an entire corpse in his car.

Do you think that he might have an identifier hidden somewhere? Perhaps his ID or wallet.

 

[Feme98]

I think that if Kraft killed him, he might have gotten him into his car, maybe on Ripples parking lot.

Once he was done, he tossed him a few blocks away.

 

[Springrain]

Do you think that he might have an identifier hidden somewhere? Perhaps his ID or wallet.

Not sure what's wrong with me tonight that I didn't realize that's what you meant I do think it's possible Kraft (or whoever his killer was if not Kraft) took his wallet out of his pocket and dumped it without looking. But from what I've seen about Kraft, he didn't really seem to care if his victims were identified? I could be wrong about that, but he killed a lot of men and boys and most of them were ID'd. So I'm not sure! I wonder if it's possible he got into the bar earlier that day (or yesterday, and the stamp just hadn't washed off fully yet), went home and left his wallet and ID there, and then went back out, only to be killed by Kraft.

I think that if Kraft killed him, he might have gotten him into his car, maybe on Ripples parking lot.

Once he was done, he tossed him a few blocks away.

As a side note, did they report anything about this guy's BAC or anything else on his toxicology report? I can't remember. If he was drunk at time of death it was almost certainly easier to lure him or as you said, force him into his car.

 

[Grungster]

Do you mean DNA from the sock found in 1155UMCA's anus or a sock the other Wilmington John Doe was wearing?

The sock from him anus, yes.

Honestly, Randy Kraft is a definite *** but he might genuinely not know who this guy is if he just met him at the bar. But I can also see him lying because he thinks he can manipulate people into thinking he's innocent, even though he was pulled over with an entire corpse in his car.

I can see that as being possible. He apparently didn't know the identity of "Portland Elk" from 1980.

 

[Feme98]

Not sure what's wrong with me tonight that I didn't realize that's what you meant I do think it's possible Kraft (or whoever his killer was if not Kraft) took his wallet out of his pocket and dumped it without looking. But from what I've seen about Kraft, he didn't really seem to care if his victims were identified? I could be wrong about that, but he killed a lot of men and boys and most of them were ID'd. So I'm not sure! I wonder if it's possible he got into the bar earlier that day (or yesterday, and the stamp just hadn't washed off fully yet), went home and left his wallet and ID there, and then went back out, only to be killed by Kraft.



As a side note, did they report anything about this guy's BAC or anything else on his toxicology report? I can't remember. If he was drunk at time of death it was almost certainly easier to lure him or as you said, force him into his car.

I don’t remember reading any aspect that indicates that he was drunk at the time of death.

Earlier it was thought that he was an overdose victim.

 

[Feme98]

I've been thinking that perhaps he got into his killer's car, maybe they drove to the spot where he was found and that is were he ended up killing him.

I wonder if there are any reports of a car parked prior to when he was eventually found, given that the discovery occured at 4 AM, maybe he laid there since 3:30 AM, perhaps.

It hurts that he hasn't been identified, nor that the person or persons responsible have been caught or at the very least, identified.

 

[mayimagpie]

81DMIA - Guy Howard Heckle

Guy Howard Heckle went missing a few years before John Doe was found, but the age range would fit. This is the first one that has really struck me with the facial similarity.

 

[Feme98]

81DMIA - Guy Howard Heckle

Guy Howard Heckle went missing a few years before John Doe was found, but the age range would fit. This is the first one that has really struck me with the facial similarity.

I see resemblance!

The only thing that puzzles me is the length of time from his last sighting (and possible passing) to 1978, the 5 year gap is kind of a stretch.

John Doe seem to have been taken care of, given the condition of his clothing and overall appearance.

 

[Alleykins]

They both have DNA available, so it should be an easy rule out or match.

 

[Spindlebrook]

If you read the circumstances regarding his disappearance it’s fairly certain that Heckle fell into the river and didn’t make it out. That makes a lot more sense than reappearing five years later in California and being this UID.

 

[carbuff]

I suspect that a lot of missing kids from that era ran away from home and went to California or NY where they could live a more openly gay lifestyle. Since Ripples was well known as a gay bar, I wouldn't find it inherently implausible that this decedent was someone who had been missing for several years. Might not be. There might not be a connection. But it could be.

Heckle's circumstances don't seem to fit that, however.

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

Indeed! Do you know if it says a date? Like June 2nd 1978

If the scorecard says a date? The scorecard never did specify any dates.

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

If the scorecard says a date? The scorecard never did specify any dates.

I've thought this guy was Front of Ripples for YEARS. Nothing is specified date wise, but many of the names on the scorecard were either organized chronologically or put together if there was some aspect of similarity to the cases.

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

I've thought this guy was Front of Ripples for YEARS. Nothing is specified date wise, but many of the names on the scorecard were either organized chronologically or put together if there was some aspect of similarity to the cases.

Definitely a good shot for them being Front of Ripples. Kraft, if he was responsible, probably didn't spend too much time with this victim. The severity of the torture was definitely correlated to Kraft's mood at the time, so he may not have been especially sadistic, horrible at it is to even speculate though.

Judging by the way the names are matched to victims, the list is definitely NOT in chronological order. Kraft's probable first two victims were entries 1 and 3 on his list, but his fourth, HARI KARI, is what I believe to be a reference to the murder of David Michael Sandt in 1975, definitely not one of his earliest victims. Plus he had references to two July 1982 victims (DEODERANT and DOG, which were entry 20 and 21) before many 1970s victims.

 

[bombardier]

I emailed the NamUs correspondent last year asking if they had ever compared this boy to Andy Lepley, and still to this day, I haven't heard back/seen either of them listed as rule-outs. Even if circumstances seemed iffy I thought it was worthwhile to look into it based on appearance alone.
I don't know if they actually DID look into it (and just haven't updated databases) or if it got forgotten and buried amongst other tips. If anyone wants to e-mail the NamUs correspondents/the investigating agencies directly in hopes of generating a response, please do

 

[Springrain]

So I'm guessing Kraft saw him exit from the front door of Ripples and that was when he caught his attention, but the emphasis on "FRONT" makes me wonder if there could have been some significance to the front of the bar besides him first seeing him there, like possibly struck him unconscious? I don't think it's impossible that he could have rendered him unconscious or something at the front of the bar and have it be passed off as a barfight or something. I wonder if the "paid" was for another party or bar and he was heading towards Ripples (probably alone) and met Kraft at the front of Ripples. Then something happened from there.

Of course, I'm just theorizing.

I need to go back to February 1973 Wilmington John Doe's thread after I hit the hay. He is also one that I would love to see ID'd.

I have mentioned this before in this thread, but my mother is originally from this area of Long Beach and only a bit younger than some of Kraft's victims, and she had NEVER heard of Kraft until I told her about him, which astounded me especially with her having 2 brothers. Her thinking was, many areas of Long Beach just had so much crime that it may have just been thought to be unconnected murders at the time.