Czech Republic - Jane Doe, deceased, possibly falsely IDd as Alice Billing, 4 March 2012

[MyCousinAlice]

Why would Alice's death negate your family's claim on half the art collection? Trustees have specific duties and responsibilities to beneficiaries and other members of the trust. Was she a legally designated trustee or was her conservatorship just an agreement between her and your father? The point is that if she was the legal trustee of the art assets, her estate could be held accountable for the half your side of the family hasn't received. If she wasn't and everything was in her possession and control she wouldn't have to fake her death. How does faking death hide the assets? Is there a list of the treasures?

“Trustees have specific duties and responsibilities to beneficiaries and other members of the trust.” Really? You never ever heard of a Trustee violating their duties? Well, Alice did violate her duties.

I will not get into the intricacies of why this or why that as relates to the trust or my Dad trusting Alice to manage the trust. Dad was in a dark moment in his life grieving the death of his “Big Sister”. Alice took advantage of his trust in her.

Yes, if everything belonged solely to Alice then she wouldn’t have to fake her death. But besides me, Alice had to deal with the Germany tax agents who were closing in on her and TB. So she decided to take care of two issues with one stroke.

If there is a lawyer willing to take on the case, they know how to contact me here on WS. Right now I would rather that you focus on helping me get some Justice for Jane Doe.

I would gladly ask a judge to compensate Jane Doe’s family with Alice’s entire one-half interest in the trust.

 

[Catmommy]

Opinions were asked for about the similarity of the first two pictures presented in the original post. There are several members who expressed that these two females do not appear to be the same. Opinions were asked for about the similarity of a post mortem photo of the deceased and known pictures of cousin Alice alive. Several members expressed that these two females appear to be the same. Passport pictures for different years were also presented for scrutiny. Several members expressed that these pictures could be the same woman as well. Some of us see no proof of a Jane Doe substituted for your cousin Alice in the declaration of her suicide. Your altruistic efforts for Justice for Jane Doe are admirable <modsnip>. I don't perceive proof of the substitution of an unknown look-a-like for your deceased cousin. No offense intended. Perhaps some of our experts here will weigh in soon.

 

[proctorelites]

I think where @Catmommy was headed by asking if Alice was considered the legal trustee of the Art Collection is- if she was documented as this trustee then you have legal right to press charges against her or at least issue somethinf against her estate- then the police might look a little harder at the Jane Doe, a little more closely at this death and who Alice was if 3Billion dollars are in the mix. If she wasnt on a binding agreement that becomes irrelevant- nothing in this is meant to question anyone's integrity. Only to considering 1 possible way you can get some actual action from law enforcement.

 

[Bit of hope]

1. You said “I'm understanding that Alice's body was identified by her husband, her son and their former Au Pair. I'm understanding that all the passports, including the one whose pictured is questioned, had Alice's signature. This being true[.]”

2. Obviously you don’t agree with mrazda71 that Jane Doe is not Alice.

3. And you don’t agree with the fact that Mr. Gibson, the facial analyst who provided his written report, concluded that Jane Doe is not Alice.

4. Alice was the sole trustee of the family art collection trust when she “died”.

5. When Alice “died” the collection disappeared.

6. This collection was worth over $3 billion. Not million: Billion.

7. One-half of that collection belongs to me and my immediate family.

8. Would $1.5 billion be enough motive for Alice to fake her own death?

9. Give me one good reason why I should trust anything “being true” if it came from Alice, TB, AAB or IK.

Does this collection or this trust has a name? Is there a catalog with all the art works?

 

[MyCousinAlice]

Opinions were asked for about the similarity of the first two pictures presented in the original post. There are several members who expressed that these two females do not appear to be the same. Opinions were asked for about the similarity of a post mortem photo of the deceased and known pictures of cousin Alice alive. Several members expressed that these two females appear to be the same. Passport pictures for different years were also presented for scrutiny. Several members expressed that these pictures could be the same woman as well. Some of us see no proof of a Jane Doe substituted for your cousin Alice in the declaration of her suicide. Your altruistic efforts for Justice for Jane Doe are admirable but unnecessary in my opinion only. I don't perceive proof of the substitution of an unknown look-a-like for your deceased cousin. No offense intended. Perhaps some of our experts here will weigh in soon.

I think where @Catmommy was headed by asking if Alice was considered the legal trustee of the Art Collection is- if she was documented as this trustee then you have legal right to press charges against her or at least issue somethinf against her estate- then the police might look a little harder at the Jane Doe, a little more closely at this death and who Alice was if 3Billion dollars are in the mix. If she wasnt on a binding agreement that becomes irrelevant- nothing in this is meant to question anyone's integrity. Only to considering 1 possible way you can get some actual action from law enforcement.

The police were told about stolen art.

 

[MyCousinAlice]

Does this collection or this trust has a name? Is there a catalog with all the art works?

My Dad trusted his "Big Sister" and his niece, Alice.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

My Dad trusted his "Big Sister" and his niece, Alice.

Who actually legally owns this collection/trust now? Did your dad sign it away? Or does your side of the family still own a %?

 

[MyCousinAlice]

Who actually legally owns this collection/trust now? Did your dad sign it away? Or does your side of the family still own a %?

Dad and Aunt Marie created this trust with each owning an undivided 50% interest. Dad never assigned his interests away. So we still own 50% of this collection, wherever it may be or in whatever form it has been converted into. We never even got one penny from it.

 

[proctorelites]

Is there a contract or a piece of paper with Alice listed as trustee, signed by your dad and Alice or your dads sister? I think if we know the answer is emphatically NO. We can move on from the question and find some other avenue. to pursue.

 

[proctorelites]

We really need someone well versed in the laws there. Questions I would like answered are:
1. How long do you have to make a claim against the estate of someone who is considered dead?
2. Is a trust developed by 2 parties in a verbal agreement upheld in that court system? For how long?
3. At what point are valuables considered abandoned by someone? Even if there was a verbal agreement?

4. What would encourage LE to review their files on the woman that died? If we cannot prove a 3 billion dollar art theft, what else would help?

if the person that died is not Alice, I feel like we need to find her!!!

One thing I can for sure attest to is the death of 2 women i know. One week one of them was at the lake having fun, and the next she was dead. Unbeknownst to me, she was an alcoholic, had cirrhosis and her lungs were a mess. She died one night. She was 50 yrs old and I had no idea she was sick. She hid it well. Another woman I knew died within 1 month of discovering her liver cirrhosis she had been drinking all day long- i had NO CLUE & I saw her several hours per day, so I do know just because Alice was skiing one month and dead the next- it is not out of the realm of possibility. I was totally flabbergasted by the 2 women I mentioned above- so much so, I went to the clerk of court and got their death certificates. I needed tonsee it for myself. They were both very ill.
But I do see the difference of appearance in some of the later photos. I can understand questioning them.
I just feel like there is information missing, other than the obvious, that I havent latched onto yet.

 

[MyCousinAlice]

We really need someone well versed in the laws there. Questions I would like answered are:
1. How long do you have to make a claim against the estate of someone who is considered dead?
2. Is a trust developed by 2 parties in a verbal agreement upheld in that court system? For how long?
3. At what point are valuables considered abandoned by someone? Even if there was a verbal agreement?

4. What would encourage LE to review their files on the woman that died? If we cannot prove a 3 billion dollar art theft, what else would help?

if the person that died is not Alice, I feel like we need to find her!!!

One thing I can for sure attest to is the death of 2 women i know. One week one of them was at the lake having fun, and the next she was dead. Unbeknownst to me, she was an alcoholic, had cirrhosis and her lungs were a mess. She died one night. She was 50 yrs old and I had no idea she was sick. She hid it well. Another woman I knew died within 1 month of discovering her liver cirrhosis she had been drinking all day long- i had NO CLUE & I saw her several hours per day, so I do know just because Alice was skiing one month and dead the next- it is not out of the realm of possibility. I was totally flabbergasted by the 2 women I mentioned above- so much so, I went to the clerk of court and got their death certificates. I needed tonsee it for myself. They were both very ill.
But I do see the difference of appearance in some of the later photos. I can understand questioning them.
I just feel like there is information missing, other than the obvious, that I havent latched onto yet.

Please accept my heartfelt empathy for your sorrow and loss.

Dad trusted Alice so of course nothing was formalized, notarized, rubberstamped or recorded. Dad trusted his niece, just as he trusted Aunt Marie. Family. So much for Trust.

Some jurisdictions recognize written trusts only and some jurisdictions also recognize oral trusts. Our jurisdiction happens to be the latter. That is why I am not concerned about "my half". I never depended on this trust to survive because I never even got a penny from it. Sure I will pursue “my half” but right this moment I want Justice for Jane Doe.

I will be focusing on getting you the rest of the police records that I hope will answer some of you questions. I hope that you will then be better able to help Jane Doe.

 

[proctorelites]

I think finding justice for this jane doe will require the police department to reopen the case. They beleive she is Alice. In order to get the police to even consider reopening the case they will need a reason to question their original finding.
What would make them question their finding of the dead woman being Alice?

 

[MyCousinAlice]

I think finding justice for this jane doe will require the police department to reopen the case. They beleive she is Alice. In order to get the police to even consider reopening the case they will need a reason to question their original finding.
What would make them question their finding of the dead woman being Alice?

The Prosecutor makes the decision to reopen cases and so far she refuses to accept our complaint.

 

[proctorelites]

Have you filed a report with the police department regarding missing art collection?

 

[MyCousinAlice]

Have you filed a report with the police department regarding missing art collection?

We consulted a Czech attorney who told us that since the trust was oral it is not recognized under Czech Laws so there was “nothing stolen”.

Ever see the film "Woman in Gold"? Worth watching since you ask such questions. And yes, the family art collection trust had pieces by Klimt.

 

[Catmommy]

The movie Woman In Gold as from IMDb
"Maria Altmann (Dame Helen Mirren) sought to regain a world famous painting of her aunt plundered by the Nazis during World War II. She did so not just to regain what was rightfully hers, but also to obtain some measure of justice for the death, destruction, and massive art theft perpetrated by the Nazis.—Elyse J. Factor."

There is also an extensive entry on Wikipedia about this film based on the true story.

If these film references are not considered reputable or acceptable please remove and accept my apologies. I offered them only as context for the movie mentioned.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2404425/keywords?ref_=tt_stry_kw

 

[MyCousinAlice]

The movie Woman In Gold as from IMDb
"Maria Altmann (Dame Helen Mirren) sought to regain a world famous painting of her aunt plundered by the Nazis during World War II. She did so not just to regain what was rightfully hers, but also to obtain some measure of justice for the death, destruction, and massive art theft perpetrated by the Nazis.—Elyse J. Factor."

There is also an extensive entry on Wikipedia about this film based on the true story.

If these film references are not considered reputable or acceptable please remove and accept my apologies. I offered them only as context for the movie mentioned.

Thank you for posting about the background to the story. Those were Dark Times. Thank God for the Americans who sacrificed to free Europe from the grips of Hitler and the Nazis.

The family art collection came from Vienna, from a great great aunt who was an art dealer throughout the early to mid 21st Century. Surviving two world wars, she passed away in the early 1970s and that is how my Dad and Aunt Marie got the collection, which was later merged with a significantly smaller collection after Great Uncle Yoya passed away in Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia was later dissolved during the Velvet Revolution.

“Woman in Gold” fascinated me with the legal maneuvering by Maria’s young attorney and the choice of laws that gave Justice a chance. The Austrian laws would not budge to help Maria, but the laws of the United States did.

 

[Bit of hope]

Thank you for posting about the background to the story. Those were Dark Times. Thank God for the Americans who sacrificed to free Europe from the grips of Hitler and the Nazis.

The family art collection came from Vienna, from a great great aunt who was an art dealer throughout the early to mid 21st Century. Surviving two world wars, she passed away in the early 1970s and that is how my Dad and Aunt Marie got the collection, which was later merged with a significantly smaller collection after Great Uncle Yoya passed away in Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia was later dissolved during the Velvet Revolution.

“Woman in Gold” fascinated me with the legal maneuvering by Maria’s young attorney and the choice of laws that gave Justice a chance. The Austrian laws would not budge to help Maria, but the laws of the United States did.

Don't forget the role of Canada and the Australians. The Dutch village my grandparents and my mother (2 years at the time) lived, were freed by Canadians.

In April 1945, the First Canadian Army swept north, liberating more of the Netherlands from nearly five years of German occupation, and providing food and medical aid to the starving population.

 

[Bit of hope]

Thank you for posting about the background to the story. Those were Dark Times. Thank God for the Americans who sacrificed to free Europe from the grips of Hitler and the Nazis.

The family art collection came from Vienna, from a great great aunt who was an art dealer throughout the early to mid 21st Century. Surviving two world wars, she passed away in the early 1970s and that is how my Dad and Aunt Marie got the collection, which was later merged with a significantly smaller collection after Great Uncle Yoya passed away in Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia was later dissolved during the Velvet Revolution.

“Woman in Gold” fascinated me with the legal maneuvering by Maria’s young attorney and the choice of laws that gave Justice a chance. The Austrian laws would not budge to help Maria, but the laws of the United States did.

Thank you for the info...things are getting more clear now. To be honest, the stolen art from the Jewish population made me question (in the back of my mind) where your families collection came from.

 

[Bit of hope]

I noticed that Alice had some kind of gap between her first teeth (older pictures) and a typical dental first teeth pattern. Other pictures IMO show that she had some aesthetic work done. Did the police ever did a comparison between Alice and the diseased bases on dental records?