Josh Duggar charged with Receipt/Possession Child Sexual Abuse Material, 29 April 2021 #2

[jessarox]

As I understand it, Josh can leave for medical appointments. Does that include kids’ appointments (prob not, due to kids in waiting room?) or his wife’s birth?

His wife has at home births, she could just go to where he's staying to give birth (unless she has a quick labor and delivery) if he's not allowed to go to her home.

 

[watcher9]

In Florida chemical castration is mandatory but judges still don’t use it, and California and Texas have allowed surgical castration, at the request of the offender, and they have been released.
Surgical castration for sexual offenses has been done for hundreds of years across cultures, it was halted in the US after WWII.
Here’s some background on how chemical castration law came about and just how much some judges neglect to follow the law’s mandatory usage when sentencing repeat child sexual offenders.

On May 4, 2005, convicted Texas child molester Larry Don McQuay was released from prison. Again. McQuay, who had been a school bus driver in San Antonio, Texas, had been initially sentenced to eight years in prison for molesting a six-year-old boy in 1989. McQuay begged the state of Texas to surgically castrate him so that he would not repeat his crimes, which he admitted included molesting over 200 children. McQuay stated that when he looks at a child, “I see a sex object..I hate the things that I do. I’m just scared that it’s going to happen. That’s why I want to get the surgery.’ ” His request was denied.
McQuay’s letters from prison prompted the citizen’s organization, Justice for All, to help him raise the funds to obtain the surgery privately.
Although the organization was successful in raising the funds, they could find no physician who was willing to perform the surgery.
In 1996, after having served six years of an eight-year sentence, Larry Don McQuay was released from prison for “good conduct”, even though he had stated that he would not only molest again, but kill his victims to prevent them from testifying against him. Dismayed at the Texas court’s denial of McQuay’s request to be castrated prior to his release, California Assemblyman Bill Hoge introduced a bill in 1996 that was overwhelmingly passed by the California legislature requiring “chemical castration” of paroled, repeat child molesters.
Florida wasted no time in getting its own chemical castration statute on the books. In October of 1997, the legislature enacted section 794.0235, Florida Statutes, which permits Florida’s courts to order periodic administration of medroxyprogesterone acetate (MPA) injections for individuals convicted of sexual battery and mandates such a court order upon an individual’s second conviction. The controversial theory behind the statute is that forced administration of large doses of female hormones into male sex offenders who are placed on probation will significantly reduce the likelihood of recidivistic sexual offenses.
On April 12, 2005, some seven years after Florida’s statute was enacted, Susan Maher, Deputy General Counsel for Florida’s Department of Corrections (DOC), briefed the Senate Justice Appropriations Committee on the status of the implementation of Florida’s chemical castration statute.
Maher reported that from the time the
statute was enacted in 1997 until the day of the briefing, circuit judges had failed to order chemical castration in 104 of the 107 cases in which such order had been statutorily mandated.
https://ir.law.fsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1163&context=lr


Different State Approaches to Castration for Sex Offenders
Both the California and Florida statutes provide for mandatory injections for repeat sex offenders, as well as discretionary injections for first-time offenders. Despite the mandatory language in the Florida law, the law has apparently been invoked only a few times since its passage in 1997.

In California, at least 15 repeat sex offenders have requested surgical castration as a way to avoid indefinite incarceration and over the past three years, two offenders have been released from state mental hospitals following surgery.

Pursuant to a 1997 law, Texas permits surgical castration of offenders. By May 2005, three men had undergone the voluntary procedure. Candidates must be at least 21 years of age, have had at least two sex offense convictions, and have undergone at least 18 months of sex offender treatment, including Depo Provera injections, to understand how their bodies might react with less testosterone.
Chemical and Surgical Castration for Sex Offenders - FindLaw

Thanks for digging in and explaining the thoughts and laws on required castration on repeat sex offenders.

Sorry but I didn't want to click on your links but I'm wondering what is the rest of the story? Were studies done that determined if it did work and stop further offenses or did it have no results on future offenses?

Like the example you presented in your post, it was a mental problem that he could not stop. Manhood or not, there are still fingers, eyes or other objects that can accomplish their desired actions. The act of molestation doesn't have to be penetration but just the compulsion to touch or view.

 

[watcher9]

It’s mind boggling to me that a person, either found guilty or guilty via plea, of possession of CSA material can plead to anything, have any charges dropped or do less than maximum time in prison. We’re talking about child abuse! There shouldn’t be any bargaining of any kind.

That is so true and I agree there should be no bargaining of any kind.

The only thing going for this case will be internet transfer of CSA material across state lines that could convict him.

I worry that a plea could happen in this case since it was his "first" offense and he didn't know what it was and will promise never to do it again. He will end up getting a pat on the wrist with maybe time served and probation.

We see deals happen on other crimes in all courts of law just about every day. Sometimes it is to avoid costs of a long trial, more hurt for the family, etc, but it's still not right or fair for justice.

 

[tayaway]

Thanks for digging in and explaining the thoughts and laws on required castration on repeat sex offenders.

Sorry but I didn't want to click on your links but I'm wondering what is the rest of the story? Were studies done that determined if it did work and stop further offenses or did it have no results on future offenses?

Like the example you presented in your post, it was a mental problem that he could not stop. Manhood or not, there are still fingers, eyes or other objects that can accomplish their desired actions. The act of molestation doesn't have to be penetration but just the compulsion to touch or view.

It's a hormone imbalance. The brain malfunctions.

 

[watcher9]

It's a hormone imbalance. The brain malfunctions.

Is this the theory from the posted links or your own research?

Here's another link that I read.
Hormonal Therapy for Treatment of Sex Offenders Remains Controversial -

https://dc.statelibrary.sc.gov/bits...LC_Insights_1999-2.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

 

[Amonet]

That is so true and I agree there should be no bargaining of any kind.

The only thing going for this case will be internet transfer of CSA material across state lines that could convict him.

I worry that a plea could happen in this case since it was his "first" offense and he didn't know what it was and will promise never to do it again. He will end up getting a pat on the wrist with maybe time served and probation.

We see deals happen on other crimes in all courts of law just about every day. Sometimes it is to avoid costs of a long trial, more hurt for the family, etc, but it's still not right or fair for justice.

It's really hard for me to explain what was said in the Scott Reisch video, but I think he said that even a plea would still have to fit on the tariff chart and wouldn't take off more than about a year. I did feel relieved if that's correct that he'd still face a significant custodial sentence. And I guess we could hope that would include some counselling/treatment before release. I don't know if that would help, but I believe it would be more than he's had so far.

 

[Laughing]

His wife has at home births, she could just go to where he's staying to give birth (unless she has a quick labor and delivery) if he's not allowed to go to her home.

This baby will be her 7th? There may not be much lead time for this one....

Anecdotally, once I had a neighbor with 4 children. First child -- went into labor late in the afternoon, delivered healthy baby at 1:30 PM the next day. Second child -- went into labor at night, baby born 9:30 AM.

Third pregnancy, twins. One born in the parking lot, the second in the elevator.

Mine required a couple of surgeons.

My best to Anna, prayers that her brother goes to Arkansas to collect Anna & her children and does it soon!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[tayaway]

Is this the theory from the posted links or your own research?

Here's another link that I read.
Hormonal Therapy for Treatment of Sex Offenders Remains Controversial -

https://dc.statelibrary.sc.gov/bits...LC_Insights_1999-2.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

It's a proven reality, via multiple studies that I linked a while back in a Josh Duggar thread. ETA: I don't know if the links are in this current thread or the one before, but I've already done the work and I'm not about to go searching all over again. Guess you'll have to catch up on the threads!

Is this the theory from the posted links or your own research?

Here's another link that I read.
Hormonal Therapy for Treatment of Sex Offenders Remains Controversial -

https://dc.statelibrary.sc.gov/bits...LC_Insights_1999-2.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

That piece is from 1999, it's over 20 years old. Much scientific research has taken place since then.

 

[everybodhi]

Is this the theory from the posted links or your own research?

Here's another link that I read.
Hormonal Therapy for Treatment of Sex Offenders Remains Controversial -

https://dc.statelibrary.sc.gov/bits...LC_Insights_1999-2.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

It’s a well accepted scientific fact that hormones definitely effect the brain, it’s basic biology.
Hormones: Communication between the Brain and the Body

I read your link and agree with everything in it, chemical castration is only effective as long as the hormones continue to be in the body, it works best on people who want to change, like all therapy, and they need to be continually monitored and under cognitive therapy, and also never allowed access to children.
We are talking about repeat offenders here.
My first link in the long post is also about these same controversies and also the added controversy of the civil rights of offenders not to be forced into medical treatment.

 

[mickey2942]

I read that if Josh Duggar makes a plea deal, he could get less than 7 years. If he goes to trial, and loses, for both charges, with the young age of the child in the video, and extreme violence, he could get up to 20 years.

The only real defense for Josh Duggar going to trial, is trying to pin this on anyone else who has access to his computer to create "Reasonable Doubt" that it was actually his material.

 

[everybodhi]

I read that if Josh Duggar makes a plea deal, he could get less than 7 years. If he goes to trial, and loses, for both charges, with the young age of the child in the video, and extreme violence, he could get up to 20 years.

The only real defense for Josh Duggar going to trial, is trying to pin this on anyone else who has access to his computer to create "Reasonable Doubt" that it was actually his material.

I’m sure his lawyer knows that offenders rarely get the maximum sentence for this crime, only 28% are sentenced within the guideline range. Over 60% receive a below range variance with the sentence reduced an average of 40%.
Some people even serve no time and get probation on a first offense, it may be 10 years probation, but still..
Quick Facts — Child *advertiser censored* Offenders

 

[MsMarple]

I read that if Josh Duggar makes a plea deal, he could get less than 7 years. If he goes to trial, and loses, for both charges, with the young age of the child in the video, and extreme violence, he could get up to 20 years.

The only real defense for Josh Duggar going to trial, is trying to pin this on anyone else who has access to his computer to create "Reasonable Doubt" that it was actually his material.

I hope no matter how this plays out - even if he gets reduced jail time or even probation - that Josh ends up on the Sex Offender Registry. IMO he's a danger to the community.

 

[BeckyF]

His wife has at home births, she could just go to where he's staying to give birth (unless she has a quick labor and delivery) if he's not allowed to go to her home.

I would imagine that, according to the terms of his release, he would be able to attend the birth.

 

[mickey2942]

I would imagine that, according to the terms of his release, he would be able to attend the birth.

Yeah. During the show when Anna Duggar gave birth to her first child, Josh wandered in a few times... "How ya' doing?" And promptly left.

Lots of help.

 

[jessarox]

I would imagine that, according to the terms of his release, he would be able to attend the birth.

I'm actually not sure with his current terms of release since it would likely be in the windowless warehouse (their house) or at his parents' house which are both on property with about a dozen minor children and he can't be around children aside from his own. If she were going to a hospital or birthing center then sure but given the circumstances, I think maybe not. As someone else mentioned, her labor may be really fast since this is her 7th child so he may not even get there in time even if he is allowed to be there.

That being said, I'm sure his lawyers will be able to work something out.

 

[MsMarple]

I'm actually not sure with his current terms of release since it would likely be in the windowless warehouse (their house) or at his parents' house which are both on property with about a dozen minor children and he can't be around children aside from his own. If she were going to a hospital or birthing center then sure but given the circumstances, I think maybe not. As someone else mentioned, her labor may be really fast since this is her 7th child so he may not even get there in time even if he is allowed to be there.

That being said, I'm sure his lawyers will be able to work something out.

I couldn't find a due date for the baby but I see that she announced her pregnancy sometime in April. So she may give birth any time between early fall and winter. If Josh's trial stays on schedule he could be in prison by then.

Unless of course the judge works it out for him to be at Anna's side for the birth. IMO he's had enough concessions.

 

[MsJosie]

I'm actually not sure with his current terms of release since it would likely be in the windowless warehouse (their house) or at his parents' house which are both on property with about a dozen minor children and he can't be around children aside from his own. If she were going to a hospital or birthing center then sure but given the circumstances, I think maybe not. As someone else mentioned, her labor may be really fast since this is her 7th child so he may not even get there in time even if he is allowed to be there.

That being said, I'm sure his lawyers will be able to work something out.

If Anna wants Josh present at birth and if the court allows, a place will have to be determined. I agree JBD and MD house is off limits because of the age of their children and so many children to move for the birth. Josh and Anna’s house is not going to work out because Anna will be preoccupied and not able to ‘watch Josh’ with his own children, on the computer or phone. The current place Josh is staying….would they even think of allowing a birth there? I am sure the senior Duggar’s would want it, but would that couple allow it? The best place would be for Anna and her doctor to find a birthing center that would allow them to be there.
I would hope Josh would not be there….I don’t think it’s appropriate plus some other comments I will not say.

Who knows Josh may not be available for the birth.

alljmoo

 

[TristanP]

If Anna wants Josh present at birth and if the court allows, a place will have to be determined. I agree JBD and MD house is off limits because of the age of their children and so many children to move for the birth. Josh and Anna’s house is not going to work out because Anna will be preoccupied and not able to ‘watch Josh’ with his own children, on the computer or phone. The current place Josh is staying….would they even think of allowing a birth there? I am sure the senior Duggar’s would want it, but would that couple allow it? The best place would be for Anna and her doctor to find a birthing center that would allow them to be there.
I would hope Josh would not be there….I don’t think it’s appropriate plus some other comments I will not say.

Who knows Josh may not be available for the birth.

alljmoo

I mean…the people at the place he’s staying are allowing a child molesting, child-sexual-abuse-photo-and-video downloading, pedophile live in their home with them and their unmarried daughter. I’m pretty sure hosting a home birth would probably be just fine with them.

 

[everybodhi]

I mean…the people at the place he’s staying are allowing a child molesting, child-sexual-abuse-photo-and-video downloading, pedophile live in their home with them and their unmarried daughter. I’m pretty sure hosting a home birth would probably be just fine with them.

It’s really up to the husband I think

 

[MsJosie]

Lawyers for JD are interviewing child witnesses in child *advertiser censored* case, in closed court to protect them.

The article is interesting.

“Protective Order Concerning Child Victim and Witness Privacy was filed on June 11.” This was done to “The parties requested the order to “avoid information that identifies or could be used to identify a child victim or witness.”
The statements and all information is being well guarded.


Josh's child *advertiser censored* case lawyers to interview 'child witnesses in closed court'