CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

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Didn’t MS and her sister embark on a real estate investment company together? Who says Honey provided significant funds/assets to MS including numerous houses and rental and vacation properties? That resembles exactly what Barry did for KW prior to shutting off the money tap.

It is relatively easy to find out the locations of some of the real estate that MS owns. In addition, I believe there was some press a while back that indicated she owns (partially or totally) some 17 or 19 rental properties in the Toronto area. I am sure HS or BS didn't provide any of the money for these properties...
 
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So what was so earth shattering in the estate documents that the family worried would put them in danger, cause embarrassment and require the need for extra security??
- apparently nothing left to charities?
- less inheritance than one might expect?
-the adult kids do not get full payout till the age of 35?
Maybe i am missing something, or the big deal estate secrets have not yet been revealed?
imo, speculation.
As previously discussed the will and probate estate that are public do not include all the assets and all the bequests. Charitable contributions can be directed by trusts outside of will and probate docs.
 
So what was so earth shattering in the estate documents that the family worried would put them in danger, cause embarrassment and require the need for extra security??
- apparently nothing left to charities?
- less inheritance than one might expect?
-the adult kids do not get full payout till the age of 35?
Maybe i am missing something, or the big deal estate secrets have not yet been revealed?
imo, speculation.

As previously discussed the will and probate estate that are public do not include all the assets and all the bequests. Charitable contributions can be directed by trusts outside of will and probate docs.
Isn't that the point, though? There was nothing to see here (that has been reported on by anyone to date, at least), so as dotr has indicated, what was so earth shattering that the family would spend oodles in legal fees to prevent the public from finding out? And what was the big worry about the danger and risk to the trustees and beneficiaries?

My guess is a publication ban which can't be reported on to even say what the publication ban is on exactly.
 
It is relatively easy to find out the locations of some of the real estate that MS owns. In addition, I believe there was some press a while back that indicated she owns (partially or totally) some 17 or 19 rental properties in the Toronto area. I am sure HS or BS didn't provide any of the money for these properties...

Regardless, she probably didn’t have to become a tour guide in Florida, her husband driving for Uber in order to pay the household bills. Is there something wrong with a wealthy couple who is generous toward family members? As the saying goes “you can’t take it with you”. I don’t think have the right to sit back and judge how the Shermans spent, gave away or willed their money given it was all theirs to give. JMO
 
Isn't that the point, though? There was nothing to see here (that has been reported on by anyone to date, at least), so as dotr has indicated, what was so earth shattering that the family would spend oodles in legal fees to prevent the public from finding out? And what was the big worry about the danger and risk to the trustees and beneficiaries?

My guess is a publication ban which can't be reported on to even say what the publication ban is on exactly.

Within the actual SCC Judge’s ruling a publication ban was mentioned as a possible initial alternative to the sealing. But it went on to say a publication ban can’t be applied after a file is unsealed by the Court.

As there’s no real urgency, perhaps reporters supported by their legal teams are still mulling over the files in order to gain an understanding rather than reporting misleading or incorrect information?
 
I am SO confused. I believe that when people are married, and during the time of that marriage, one of them works everyday at building an empire, the value is shared, as per the Family Law Act - at least the difference between the value at time of marriage and the value at time of death?

But it has been said that Barry and Honey borrowed funds from different family members, so it seems there was not much 'value' prior to the marriage, and I believe any real growth in Apotex value came during their marriage.

I can see how Barry would want to protect his 'heirs', if he died first, by only giving H an allowance of sorts, to include all of the 'income', but none of the 'assets', while meanwhile, the actual assets were managed by the Apo trustees.. ie H didn't just inherit everything, which would potentially allow her to marry someone new, sell everything, and leave all of her money to her new mate when she died, rather than her kids.

Not saying that would've ever happened, but seems B was preventing that as even a possibility. But I'm not understanding why H wouldn't have been entitled to the same wealth/assets upon Barry's death, as she would have been had they instead divorced.

And if he had died while she remained living, she could have contested that.. but I believe it would need to be contested in order for it to be changed to equal assets.. but as it stands, she is not alive to contest it, .... can anyone follow my lame attempt to explain what I'm talking about? If they were deemed to share equally in their assets gained during their marriage, but they may have individually had separate and different ideas about how they wanted to distribute their estates upon their respective deaths, that could make quite a substantial difference to perhaps many things/people.

It is inconceivable to me that H really had no will and died intestate. It also seems scary to me somehow, that JK is no longer an executor/trustee of B's estate. imo.

If bequests upon death mirrored divorce laws, then no married person would require a Will as any and all of the deceased assets would automatically be considered to be all jointly owned by the surviving spouse. Therefore no married person could list any other beneficiary without the will being contested by the spouse, particularly an issue in examples involving remarriages and step-children.

We have no reason to assume the Shermans never discussed an Apotex succession plan if Barry predeceased his wife or that Barry didn’t obtain professional legal advice when his Will was drawn up.

But if the intent of the killer was to murder Honey to prevent her from inheriting Barry’s full estate then it would seem her death was unnecessary.

JMO
 
Isn't that the point, though? There was nothing to see here (that has been reported on by anyone to date, at least), so as dotr has indicated, what was so earth shattering that the family would spend oodles in legal fees to prevent the public from finding out? And what was the big worry about the danger and risk to the trustees and beneficiaries?

My guess is a publication ban which can't be reported on to even say what the publication ban is on exactly.

Let us not forget that later on, after the family was granted a publication ban, TPS made a claim to the court that the "will" should remain sealed because it was intrinsically tied to their murder investigation. (paraphrasing). I assume that we will have to wait for both wills to be made public before we see any red flags that TPS saw?
 
June 15 2021 rbbm.
Unsealed estate files reveal Barry and Honey Sherman's plans for their fortune | National Post
''Upon their deaths, Barry Sherman held $67 million in personal property and $1.8 million in real estate. Honey Sherman had $45.9 million in personal property and $9.5 million in real estate, the documents say. This figure covered by the estate files, though, represents a fraction of their true wealth; Forbes estimates Barry Sherman was worth around $3 billion at the time of his death.''

''The identity of the person who made the initial request for the records to be kept secret was also revealed in the documents released Friday.


It was Bradley Krawczyk, who’s married to Alexandra Sherman.''


“There is a real and substantial risk that the applicants, the Children and their children will suffer serious harm, detriment or injustice from public exposure of the materials, particularly in the circumstances that the identity and motivation of the perpetrator(s) of the murders remains a mystery,” Krawczyk’s 2018 affidavit says.''
 
Regardless, she probably didn’t have to become a tour guide in Florida, her husband driving for Uber in order to pay the household bills. Is there something wrong with a wealthy couple who is generous toward family members? As the saying goes “you can’t take it with you”. I don’t think have the right to sit back and judge how the Shermans spent, gave away or willed their money given it was all theirs to give. JMO
I don’t have a problem with how BS gave away his money, I have a problem with how he made it. Jmo
 
June 15 2021 rbbm.
Unsealed estate files reveal Barry and Honey Sherman's plans for their fortune | National Post
'

''The identity of the person who made the initial request for the records to be kept secret was also revealed in the documents released Friday.


It was Bradley Krawczyk, who’s married to Alexandra Sherman.''


“There is a real and substantial risk that the applicants, the Children and their children will suffer serious harm, detriment or injustice from public exposure of the materials, particularly in the circumstances that the identity and motivation of the perpetrator(s) of the murders remains a mystery,” Krawczyk’s 2018 affidavit says.''

rsbm

I can see Alex agreeing with her husband's request to keep the records sealed for their apparent safety. Or maybe she just wanted privacy from the public, and he had the authority to request it because he was an executor. Certainly, Jon S. could have applied to the court, so why would a brother-in-law do it? I find it a bit concerning that Alex and Bradley are now separated and Alex thinks her brother (another executor) is responsible for their parents murder. Jack K was another other executor of four who was shut out. It is interesting or it isn't. :)
 
Within the actual SCC Judge’s ruling a publication ban was mentioned as a possible initial alternative to the sealing. But it went on to say a publication ban can’t be applied after a file is unsealed by the Court.

As there’s no real urgency, perhaps reporters supported by their legal teams are still mulling over the files in order to gain an understanding rather than reporting misleading or incorrect information?
Can you please post that section of the judge's ruling that said a pub ban can't be applied after a file is unsealed by the court?
 
fwiw..
Guidelines - Bans On Publication - Ministry of the Attorney General
''Inquiries Regarding the Existence of a Publication Ban:
Questions about whether a publication ban exists in a particular case may be directed to staff at the court office where the case is being heard. However, court staff are not able to provide legal advice about publication bans or other matters.

For media seeking information or documents at local courthouses, the first point of contact is the local court counter staff.''

Any media questions or issues that cannot be resolved by counter staff should be raised with local Managers of Court Operations (MCOs) in person at the courthouse. MCOs are designated local media contacts who will provide information and facilitate access to documents. Counter staff and MCOs are not ministry spokespeople. For on-the-record comment or information about ministry policies, practices, programs and positions, media should contact Media Relations at 416-326-2210.
 
Can you please post that section of the judge's ruling that said a pub ban can't be applied after a file is unsealed by the court?

Sure….
Sherman Estate v. Donovan - SCC Cases
[105]……”I hasten to add, however, that a publication ban is not available here since, as noted, the seriousness of the risk to the privacy interest at play has not been made out….”
 
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Sorry, 2 posts in row- Glimpse of the will in video..
''What we've learned from unsealed documents on Sherman estate''
•Jun 15, 2021

From that video…TPS confirm the release of the file will have a negligible impact on the investigation.

Statement from TPS “While we can’t speak to specifics to protect the integrity of the investigation, we can confirm it remains active and ongoing with investigative steps being taken every single day. We are committed to bringing closure and justice to the family and the community.”
 
Regardless, she probably didn’t have to become a tour guide in Florida, her husband driving for Uber in order to pay the household bills. Is there something wrong with a wealthy couple who is generous toward family members? As the saying goes “you can’t take it with you”. I don’t think have the right to sit back and judge how the Shermans spent, gave away or willed their money given it was all theirs to give. JMO

I am not judging, not sure how you got there. For all I care they could have left it all to the Moonies.
 
If bequests upon death mirrored divorce laws, then no married person would require a Will as any and all of the deceased assets would automatically be considered to be all jointly owned by the surviving spouse. Therefore no married person could list any other beneficiary without the will being contested by the spouse, particularly an issue in examples involving remarriages and step-children.

We have no reason to assume the Shermans never discussed an Apotex succession plan if Barry predeceased his wife or that Barry didn’t obtain professional legal advice when his Will was drawn up.

But if the intent of the killer was to murder Honey to prevent her from inheriting Barry’s full estate then it would seem her death was unnecessary.

JMO

Again, I think the relevant set of considerations could be 1) what changes was BS contemplating making to his existing Will; 2) what provisions did HS contemplate putting in her Will that would be drafted after BS made these changes to his Will; and 3) could those respective changes have created the necessity in the killers mind to murder them both before these changes were made. MOO
 
I think I’ve missed something. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. What was the big deal about this will or wills? Has the revelation brought us any closer to finding the killer(S)? If not, what was the fuss about keeping it private? Aside from maybe exposing specific private details about how much and when money will be released, has anything been revealed that we didn’t already know? A wealthy couple left lots of money to their kids. And? We knew that. The details don’t seem to be bringing the killers to justice. It’s seems like a lot of manpower, time and money is being used to fight over irrelevant details. It would be nice if the focus and efforts were just on finding the killers. Someone out there is roaming the world freely, with the skills to kill at least 2 people effortlessly and then stage their dead bodies. Who does that?! They need to be roaming the halls of a penetentiary not strolling freely among normal people. I’m not sure how the release of the will info will help with this goal but I hope it happens soon.
 
I am not judging, not sure how you got there. For all I care they could have left it all to the Moonies.
Omg! I know this is a serious subject, but I needed that laugh! My shirt just didn’t need a mouthful of coffee, but it was worth it. Just to be clear, our dear Watered down Misty was quoting directly from the book, evidently Marianne has told various people, that these will be her and her husband’s new sources of income. FYI- just finished the book “ The Billionaire Murders “ this morning,I will pop back in a later with my thoughts, opinions, and prayers...
 
I think I’ve missed something. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. What was the big deal about this will or wills? Has the revelation brought us any closer to finding the killer(S)? If not, what was the fuss about keeping it private? Aside from maybe exposing specific private details about how much and when money will be released, has anything been revealed that we didn’t already know? A wealthy couple left lots of money to their kids. And? We knew that. The details don’t seem to be bringing the killers to justice. It’s seems like a lot of manpower, time and money is being used to fight over irrelevant details. It would be nice if the focus and efforts were just on finding the killers. Someone out there is roaming the world freely, with the skills to kill at least 2 people effortlessly and then stage their dead bodies. Who does that?! They need to be roaming the halls of a penetentiary not strolling freely among normal people. I’m not sure how the release of the will info will help with this goal but I hope it happens soon.

Yes agreed it could be a red herring. But we did learn a number of tidbits:

Like that Brad, the son-in-law was the requestor for secrecy to protect his family. We do not know if he was the sole person who was afraid, he did not come from a family with money like Alex did, maybe upon learning his wife would receive 1/4 of multiple millions (she was over 25 first payment threshold) and the fear in the family at that time they were fighting TPS to see it as a double murder and not murder-suicide and did not have any suspects, the list goes on.

It was surprising for me to hear reports that she and her husband separated. It saddened me, I am sure Alex needs to be well supported and around people she can trust at this time so soon after the deaths.

Then when we heard from her brother himself that she considered he could be involved in their parent's deaths.

Now we know Brad was on the last will as a trustee, got to wonder how much he knows of inside interactions, and is he afraid of someone?

We also learned that Barry had a plan to ensure Honey never needed anything and would be well taken care of. We learned Honey in fact did not have a personal will, it appears her wishes were covered within Barry's will. As well that he saw his 4 children equally and said just divide by 4. But the last tidbit that was some interesting is that the final payout when they are 35 looks to be the last 1/4 but paid out via trust on an annual basis not a lump sum. That would make me think the other wills that are not public knowledge explain what can and cannot be sold so that what feeds the trust funds goes on and on.

Apotex Canada was for sale, not sure if it still is or not, but other divisions in Europe are sold, canceled, and sold off all the US arm Barry was investing to build and spend hundreds of millions.

If Barry truly had no religion and did not believe in life ever after, when you die that is it you sleep and nothing else, maybe he did not care if it went on without him, free to sell it all to build the trust funds? so I assume this is acceptable as part of Barry's plan.
 
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