Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #4

[TootsieFootsie]

And who is this security officer that didn't exist.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

That's a great question

And who is this security officer that didn't exist.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I'm sure no one wants to hear this but, I've known a lot of bankers throughout the years and most have one or two stories about a staff member who once worked at their company or office who stole money.

Some stories are about quick little slips of the hand from the til. And others are long, drawn-out digital masterpieces over decades.

Sometimes it's a bank employee that simply wants to buy a new handbag. Other times it's a bank manager who slowly become an alcoholic over their career which led to an uncontrollable gambling habit, which the bank is unwittingly funding.

I only hear about the people who got caught. Some die by suicide and the rest go to court. Some are able to repay their debt, and others can't so I guess the bank gets insurance? The customer rarely hears about it (unless you google it), but it happens everywhere! All over the place.

This is just at a small local level. Put that together with actual skilled and lifelong conmen that were floating around the area at the time, and it just elevates it all.

Type 'conman' into Youtube and see what comes up. These conmen occasionally need the morally corrupt people at the bank, police, council, airport, etc in order to pull off their bigger scams. For turning a blind eye, the local person gets a fraction of the prize to supplement their regular income. It's been done this way since the beginning of time.

Not sure if this is what happened to Marion. It's pure speculation. But yes, I am old and jaded.

 

[EternalHope]

Looking forward to the testimony from the optometrist.

After so long, would they remember one individual - I think maybe not.

However, I wonder what records exist - and how they compare any previous records for Marion. Could they be so similar that they suggest it was indeed Marion, or if something is really different, could they suggest it wasn't.

If no CCTV exists of her return to Australia, maybe this is the next best thing.

Could there even be a fingerprint on a record card somewhere?

 

[Loxoli]

Looking forward to the testimony from the optometrist.

After so long, would they remember one individual - I think maybe not.

However, I wonder what records exist - and how they compare any previous records for Marion. Could they be so similar that they suggest it was indeed Marion, or if something is really different, could they suggest it wasn't.

If no CCTV exists of her return to Australia, maybe this is the next best thing.

Could there even be a fingerprint on a record card somewhere?

I’m very interested too. Marion had a freckle in her right eye (inside the iris). It’s possible that the optometrist might remember that, which could indicate that it was Marion.

3966DFQLD - Marion Barter

 

[TootsieFootsie]

One of my two theories on why Marion left.

Maybe Marion felt great embarrassment over what happened with the pilot. I think I would. It seems others did notice her great interest in him.
I think she just assumed he was interested in her and I think she thought he was going to be in her future. Maybe she had thoughts of him marrying her.

She seemed more than keen on him. It was said she seemed to have a breakdown and wasn't the same after that.
In my mind she so wanted to love someone and be loved, that she truly believed she'd met someone in the pilot.
It must have been a terrible shock for Marion, when the son pointed out the woman his father was going to marry. I wonder if he did marry her, or if...

I think he was less keen on Marion and she misread the signals. And that he didn't pursue her.

The other night I was thinking that maybe Marion rushing out to him was becoming a problem for him because he really was not interested in her in a romantic way.
But somehow he couldn't tell her.
Maybe he found a way...

 

[Deleted member 249471]

From yesterday's inquest, we still need to know the name of the Police Officer who spoke to Salvos.

What we know so far:

• they claimed to be from 'Police Missing Persons'
• they claimed to have spoken to 'Security at Colonial' (Colonial say they never had Security*)
• they claimed they were told Marion spoke of “starting a new life” but never followed through to locate/sight her, to see if it was really Marion, or if she was in peril and being coerced
• they only focused on the ONE Colonial Ashmore withdrawal and did not investigate the TWENTY or so CBA withdrawals which were far more suspicious, despite Sally/Salvos calling specifically about CBA and didn’t even know about Colonial at the time.

IMO, this Police Officer washed their hands of the case without doing their job, threw Colonial Ashmore under the bus, and misdirected attention away from CBA Byron Bay, which was the point of the call.

Coincidentally, the podcast mention’s that in April 1998 (the same time Salvos were digging around), Byron Bay Police initially told Sally that $80,000 of Marion’s money was wired overseas and that is why they came to the conclusion Marion intentionally ran away. Gary Sheehan has apologised saying the initial notes and police file have been lost, so this story can’t be corroborated but Sally has it in her own notes as something that happened.

I need to know the name of this Police Officer who spoke to Salvos.

Is it Senior Constable Graham Childs of Byron Bay who allegedly took Sally’s missing person’s report? Who retired from the force November 2002 and has since worked in sales for retirement/resort property investment?

Or is it the officer who was being very rude and difficult in 2007, who insisted Marion had been located again in 2006? This email exchange between Australian Federal Police and NSW Police was accessed by the podcast through FOI and was in reference to placing Marion on the Missing Person’s Register and having her be the face of a missing person’s week campaign. But the unnamed Police Officer refused and blocked it.

*For reference: A bank Security Officer is responsible for developing, implementing and administering all aspects of a bank's Security and Safety Program and acts as a liaison between bank personnel and law enforcement when responding to theft and crimes.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

So it couldn't be just the security guard who was working there that day.

That's if the bank had one of them.

QUOTE="Peralta, post: 16886000, member: 249471"]*For reference: A bank Security Officer is responsible for developing, implementing and administering all aspects of a bank's Security and Safety Program and acts as a liaison between bank personnel and law enforcement when responding to theft and crimes.[/QUOTE]

 

[Deleted member 249471]

It's something that was discussed on this thread a loooong time ago, but generally yes, many came out to say that Bank Security isn't a security guard. More like loss prevention, and minimising and investigating theft.

Is it truly possible Colonial didn't have one? Does anyone know?

It was a small branch in the middle of a very confusing identity and ownership crisis, heheheee

According to Wiki:
1994 - State Bank was sold to Colonial (a financial services company)
1996 - officially changed its name to Colonial State Bank
2000 - ceased being as it merged into Commonwealth Bank of Australia.

So it couldn't be just the security guard who was working there that day.

That's if the bank had one of them.

QUOTE="Peralta, post: 16886000, member: 249471"]*For reference: A bank Security Officer is responsible for developing, implementing and administering all aspects of a bank's Security and Safety Program and acts as a liaison between bank personnel and law enforcement when responding to theft and crimes.

 

[Loxoli]

I feel like we need a comprehensive summary of each day’s evidence. Are there any journalists live tweeting the inquest or doing daily summaries of the evidence?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

You know what? Now is the perfect time for everyone to take a moment to post ALL of their questions regarding the case. There are so many confusing elements, things we've forgotten, and things everyone else seems to understand that I don't get. ASK THE QUESTIONS, get it all out

 

[Deleted member 249471]

One from me is... if this was part of a conman's scam, where are his other victims?

 

[Loxoli]

I have so many questions, but I’ll start with my banking queries. I want to know why the money was withdrawn from the Commonwealth Bank in increments over an extended period. Why not just withdraw the money in a lump sum like the $80000 withdrawal at Colonial? I want to learn more about transaction, identity and withdrawal policies from both banks around that time. I also want to know why it wasn’t flagged as suspicious.

 

[Loxoli]

One from me is... if this was part of a conman's scam, where are his other victims?

Good question. I wonder if there was ever any effort to link Marion’s case with any other missing person cases or suspicious deaths?

 

[JLZ]

You know what? Now is the perfect time for everyone to take a moment to post ALL of their questions regarding the case. There are so many confusing elements, things we've forgotten, and things everyone else seems to understand that I don't get. ASK THE QUESTIONS, get it all out

Thanks . . . I was wondering whether Marion told anyone she was keen on the pilot.

I haven't had the impression she was unprofessional and it would definitely be unprofessional--in terms of the relationship with the parent and in terms of her responsibilities towards the class--to suddenly and repeatedly abandon the class to buttonhole a parent for personal reasons. So I think this story might be an exaggeration. On the other hand, if she darted across to speak to him two or three times, without abandoning the class or leaving the assistant in an awkward position, there might well have been reasons for that consistent with professional boundaries. Something about the child's progress or babysitting arrangements, perhaps once just a friendly hello that turned into a conversation.

Marion running away crying--if that happened I very much doubt it was because of something she'd just been told. If she was shocked and upset at news of an engagement she would have covered it up. There were things at the school that were pushing her to the edge, so running out in tears for a reason unrelated to the immediate situation, or because a tiny thing sent her over, is plausible to me.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

And this question is truly ridiculous, but it keeps me up at night... was Marion blackmailed into drug trafficking by someone at TSS?

And that's what she kept talking to The Pilot about?
And was able to walk in and out of plane/airport/countries because she was with The Pilot?
And why she had 4 suitcases - she needed them to fill with contraband?
And why she stored them in a locker at Heathrow, it's a drop off/pick up point?
And her route Brisbane>South Korea>Japan>Heathrow/London>Kent>Luxembourg>HongKong>Australia, was just a series of drug pick up/drop offs, including a stopover in Luxembourg to collect/hide the drug money?
And Sally giving the scales back to Luke was Marion's signal to him that the pick up/drop off happened successfully so he needed to wire the money to Luxembourg?
And why Marion was so secretive and seemed to know she was in some danger/might not come back, but needed to go overseas anyway?

This line of questioning has me like

 

[Deleted member 249471]

From yesterday's inquest: 7NEWS yt link: Today marks 24 years since Marion Barter's disappearance

Witness: Raymond Walduck
He is the dentist who signed Marion’s passport application.
“I have a very vague recollection of signing that passport application… in that the name struck me as strange.”

How it fits in the timeline
15 May 1997 Marion changes name via deed poll to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel. She gets a new passport soon after, with that application witnessed by dentist Raymond Walduck.

Sally is due to be a witness on Monday, once the inquest moves to Byron Bay and Ballina.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Changing your name via deed poll

It used to be the traditional way to change you name in Australia up until the 1980's. It required a solicitor to draw up a deed poll, the applicant to sign it, and two witnesses. This is no longer the practice in Australia.

After October 1986, deed poll was replaced by the name change process we use today, administered by each state's Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages.

While deed polls are considered legal in Australia, they are not the primary way of changing your name, so they are usually not considered an official name change. However, Deed Poll is still the official way to change a name in other countries, including the UK.

IMO, this has the implication that Marion did not seem interested in changing her identity in Australia, or she would have registered the name change properly at BDM. I'm confused how she managed to get a new passport out of a deed poll without the BDM documentation? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the process?

Q: Do we know the names of the solicitor and two witnesses?

 

[JLZ]

Changing your name via deed poll

It used to be the traditional way to change you name in Australia up until the 1980's. It required a solicitor to draw up a deed poll, the applicant to sign it, and two witnesses. This is no longer the practice in Australia.

After October 1986, deed poll was replaced by the name change process we use today, administered by each state's Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages.

However, Deed Poll is still used for name changes in other countries, including the UK.

While deed polls are considered legal in Australia, they are not the primary way of changing your name, so they are usually NOT considered an official name change.

From this info, I gather that Marion's name change was NOT official in Australia, but might've been seen as a legal name change in other countries.

IMO, this has the implication that Marion did NOT seem interested in changing her name/identity in Australia, or she would have done it properly.

Q: Do we know the names of the solicitor and two witnesses?

BBM second last paragraph, I disagree. For people of Marion's age, deed poll was the way you did it. It was official. And before that . . . maybe in the 1970s, apparently (my mother told me when I was a child) it was also a legal name change if you simply started using a different name. Banks weren't demanding identity documents like they do now. Deed poll was the commonly known method, but it was overkill.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Ahhh, ok, that makes sense.